Dry Cell, Shim Cell... Isolation Cell?

[CNC MASTER]

Hello again!

Sorry but the VoltaMeter was used for total electricity, or quantity of electricity not just volts...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltameter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofmann_voltameter

CNC MASTER- Storage, yes, hydrogen only- no oxygen, perfectly safe... Think about your second question for a moment... Those neutral plates are making HHO, not just H or just O, so no, I couldn't make it work that way. Besides, this electrolyzer design is very much like a typical dry cell design, with just an extra gasket and two gas seperator membranes between each plate- this allows the plate spacing to still be in the "normal" range and keep the efficiency high.

It turns out we we're both miss spoken when it came to the basics, kinda scary when we get the simple stuff wrong...=0

Anywho, let me read what you wrote again so I can further ask away....

[myoldyourgold]

Gus I got exactly what your setup does and I am sure it does it well. The bottom line is that there will still be leakage because the electrolyte is a conductor and unless it is totally isolated between each cell there will be some leakage. You would need separate reservoirs etc. I admit that it is small and that is why I asked the question. I insulated my holes two years ago but not with Weldon. I use a dental acrylic. I make a larger hole than is required and then I fill the whole hole and about a 1/16" more than the hole with the material. After it has dried, I drill the size of hole that is required, which is smaller than the original hole. This leaves an acrylic grommet. You have to grind this stuff off if you want to get it off. (It is hard like a tooth) As long as the surface is very clean it just will not come off. Not cheap though. Of course the electrolyte dose not touch it. I also insulate a spot opposite the hole on the next plate and a number of other things to make the current go where it should. There is current leakage but very very little. I can in my design totally isolate but am not sure there will be a significant difference in performance. I guess I am going to have to do it and find out what the real difference is. No one seams to have actually compared them and published any data. Keep up the good work. Carter

[BioFarmer93]

Carter, good morning..
Went and re-read my response to you- wasn't disagreeing in the least with you about the current leakage or insisting on the superior function of the design. Hell, it hasn’t even been built yet!
It seems your success with the acrylic and another forum member's success with the Weldon mirror each other for the same reason- the acrylic itself. The Weldon-13 (16?- been a while) is a slightly thickened solvent type adhesive for acrylics and polycarbonates, and obtains its body from dissolved acrylic. So, we are talking about very similar products from a chemical standpoint. It's wonderful that such serendipitous verification of techniques and results can occur here.
Occasionally topics can become contentious due to a typo, sometimes because of a quick mis-read, or easily bruised ego. Usually though, it’s because of “keyboard economy.” I probably hate typing more than most as I am not a touch typist, but I will take the time to flesh out an idea or explanation in text because if too much is left to the reader to interpret, oftentimes erroneous conclusions are arrived at concerning the author’s intent or frame of mind. On the other hand, if an explanation is too long or involved, it occasionally gives the reader the impression that the author was being too insistent about a point, even if he was only trying to be clear.
Since my last two ex-wives got what was left of my ego in the divorce settlements, that ego thing is hardly ever the case with me.

Ever since I found out about current leakage, there has been a slowly forming design floating around in the back of my mind.. It is more trouble to build than anything currently familiar to the HHO community and involves separate and cell specific reservoirs and ducts for electrolyte and gas. Would the output gains be enough to justify the added construction time/costs? Doubtful, especially in a motor vehicle application where normal vibration & wear and tear would challenge its higher fragility. In a stationary application though, who’s to say? Especially if Nickel200 was used rather than 316L ss.
-Gus

[BioFarmer93]

OK CNC, that was a little sneaky there bud... It seems I'm guilty of the very thing I was just telling Carter about- The "quick read" scenario. I saw the "A" in Voltameter and ASSumed it was a typo on your part. I COMPLETELY forgot (been 39 years since 7th. grade) that is what it was called. -Gus

[myoldyourgold]

Gus, I LIKE the design, and think it is great!! I wish I had your computer skills and the software to do what you are doing. This old dog finds it a lot harder to learn new tricks. I still learn, it just takes a hell of a lot longer!! Separation of the O and H2 in my tests has significant advantages mainly when you want to store it, not such an advantage in an IC engine. There is a lot of debate on the latter but usually people are not comparing apples to apples. I am interested in a heating system that uses solar, wind, H2 / O and diesel. I have a design that I would like to work on some day. Your design would work well in this case. You can store HHO even under pressure if you add enough air to it before it is stored under pressure. I think I would rather separate it, just less things to go wrong. With the proper safety devices it is as safe as a propane cylinder or 300 gallon tank of diesel siting in your basement. I will be interested in you test results when you get it built. I'll keep watching.

[kutuluh]

Hi, i know its been a long time since this post, but i was wondering, did this cell ever got built?

[BioFarmer93]

No, it hasn't been built yet- however I have refined the design a bit to use the extra plates I have of a slightly different shape. The H output is going to be combined and stored with the Methane output of my digester. I'm still going to have to vent the O at atmospheric pressure to avoid contamination, but it's a small price to pay for the safety.