Working with Skeptics

[volomike]

My stepdad is a grumpy ex USA Navy Admiral, Bob. I met up with him here during the holiday weekend and shared with him what I'm working on with HHO with my father-in-law, George. Well, Bob says this HHO doesn't make sense and that we should be losing energy at the same rate we're creating it, trying to talk about the natural laws of energy.

Well, I did a lot of thinking about this, so I'd like to share an analogy for you. Let's talk about propane for a second for your grill. Now, a machine had to fill that propane tank, and it used a lot of energy to do that. It used a lot of energy to extract the propane from some other substance, then compress it into a tank. However, if you forget about that energy loss for a moment, think about something else, instead. Think about how little energy you expend to turn the knob to release that gas, and the ignite-ability of that gas with a small spark. If you only had to think about the energy used to create a spark and to turn that knob, it's very small compared to the power that came out.

Now think of it in the context of HHO. In HHO, the creation of water already had that energy performed for us by God and natural systems around us in nature. Inside water are compressed Hydrogen and Oxygen gases. It's amazing how much Hydrogen and Oxygen one can extract from water. So, you don't have to worry about the energy loss to create water because it's already done for you. Going back to the propane can analogy, it's as if God filled that can of propane for us, but instead of a propane can, it's HHO trapped inside water. And, with electrolysis, we're able to expend very little energy to, in a sense, turn that knob on the can to release this gas, and then very little energy to create a spark to ignite that gas. This is why Stanley Meyers was able to get his HHO electrolysis down to as low as 0.5 amps, I strongly feel. It is because he realized that all we're doing is like flipping a switch, or turning a knob, expending very little energy to release the HHO out of that water and ignite it. This is why we're getting more power out of HHO than the energy used to pull it out and ignite it.

Anyway, my father-in-law and I have been talking about sharing what we've learned with HHO with others in our community, and trying to build a kind of club or monthly meeting to share results and ideas. My wife suggested after a couple months of improving our tests with HHO, and driving up our mpg abilities, that we prepare a PowerPoint presentation and collect videos so that we can share what we've learned. I also see a big uptick in new users to this forum, and the fact that the first international HHO Expo was started in Bradenton, Florida, and this is a testament to how we have a fantastic movement occurring here as people see the exciting potential of what HHO can do for our world.

[dennis13030]

volomike,

I have been soliciting this forum to start an Association(or Club). It may be the best way to organize our efforts.

If we pool our resources to do the research, spread the news, develop the applications and enter into business ventures, we could all benefit well from it.

[h-power]

...when do we start??????????????? I'm game

[timetowinarace]

The skeptic always uses the same reason to deny that hho boosters will work. The symple physics law that says you can't get more energy out of a device than you put in. The law holds true, you cannot.

What the skeptics are missing in the case of our boosters is the fact that the altinator is turning while the engine is running whether it is used to it's full extent or not. The energy is there for the taking. We are not getting nor claiming to get more energy out of the devices than what is put into them. In my view we are simply using an untapped source and making the IC engine slightly more effecient. This does not break any physics laws.

I could care less about 'green' energy and reducing harmful emissions. Not a politicly correct attitude but an honest one. My focus is on my wallet. I could care less about effeciency except in the case that it costs me less to produce more. This is another area the skeptics seem to skip over. I'm not looking for the next revolution in energy. I'm looking for cheaper energy. Most people, despite thier cry for clean power, will hop on board the cheap power bus. Even the skeptics.

If you want to convince people this age old technology works, appeal to their money roll. At present prices I'm saving $60 for every tankfull of fuel depending on driving circumstances. Let the skeptics argue with that.

[justaguy]

Yeah, my brother is a skeptic and really pisses me off,lol. He doesn,t use the law of energy defence, he says if it worked car companies would already be doing it or its jus BS on the internet trying to get your money or if it works why aren,t these people making millions selling them yada yada yada.

I told him I would prove to him it worked when I get everything ironed out. He said....well, if it works I want one lmao. Once I get mine going and he wants one, i,ll direct him to these forums to learn how to build one himself, hahaha

[dennis13030]

I am still a skeptic.

I still have not seen any proof that we can get more energy out(in the form of HHO gas or BTUs) than we put into the electrolyzer(in the form of Watt/Hours or BTUs).

1 Btu = 0.29307108333 watthour

I don't know why anyone in this forum has even bother to prove or disprove this key item.

http://www.onlineconversion.com/energy.htm

[dennis13030]

I am still a skeptic.

I still have not seen any proof that we can get more energy out(in the form of HHO gas or BTUs) than we put into the electrolyzer(in the form of Watt/Hours or BTUs).

I don't know why anyone in this forum has even bother to prove or disprove this key item.

[timetowinarace]

I am still a skeptic.

I still have not seen any proof that we can get more energy out(in the form of HHO gas or BTUs) than we put into the electrolyzer(in the form of Watt/Hours or BTUs).

I don't know why anyone in this forum has even bother to prove or disprove this key item.

Yet you want to start "an Association(or Club)" for those interested in hho production.

[h-power]

I'm sorta shocked at you too, Dennis! I thought you were all in for forming a cooperative and sharing the wealth.

The part the everyone who brings up the issue of energy in vs energy out misses is not that the H gas is being produced with otherwise mostly wasted energy but that it allows the engine to improve its efficiency by burning the fuel more completely thus putting to good use the energy that would otherwise be wasted out the tailpipe. After you remove the loss of energy from the extra load on the alternator to produce the H gas you now must add back the energy gain in the more complete combustion of the fuel. The net result being a gain in overall fuel economy due directly to the increase of engine efficiency.

Late model more efficient engines have less inefficiency and therefore less to gain. The less efficient the engine run cycle the greater the possible fuel efficiency gains.

[computerclinic]

There is NEVER ANY GAIN above what you put in, if so - it would be breaking the laws of physics. However, what I put in my fuel tank lasts longer if I use the HHO, irrelevant of how much energy it takes to generate the gas to begin with. Trading energy from one form to another is always gonna cost something somewhere-thats the rules of physics, but it will cost me less at the pump if I can just get it right!

So far, from what I have learned is that the "cost" in the trade off for electric to HHO is latent heat energy as a result...