Smallest cell to produce 1LPM?

[BoyntonStu]

Smallest cell to produce 1LPM?

Ignore heat for the moment.

What is the smallest cell/area that you have seen that produced 1LPM?

IOW What cell size is the theoretical minimum required to produce 1LPM?

BoyntonStu

[Q-Hack!]

That's a good question... I think I remember somebody with a bunch of fender washers that was producing close to 1 LPM. I'll see if I can't find it again.

[Haywire Haywood]

That's a good question... I think I remember somebody with a bunch of fender washers that was producing close to 1 LPM. I'll see if I can't find it again.

this one? http://hydrogengenerator.cc/blog/?cat=3

Ian

[Roland Jacques]

3"x4"x5"
1 LPM
http://www.hydroreactors.com/index_files/Page577.htm

If it takes 40 amps do 1 LPM that is not all that good. If it can give me 1LPM at 15 amps that would be a big Wow factor.

[Jaxom]

Theoretically? The needed surface area can be determined by current density and current. We know that for most brute force designs it takes about 12A of current to produce 1lpm, and that .5A/sq.in. is an accepted limit for current density, so the math is easy:

required current/current density=SA of smallest powered electrode
12/.5=24 sq.in.

So I would think that a single cell [+-] would need to be 4"x6".
A double cell [+-+] would have to be at least 3"x4".
A triple cell [+-+-] could be as small as 4"x2"
The more plates you use the smaller they can be.

You'd need a pretty strong electrolyte to get the conductivity up so that the cell will pass enough current. Also running 12 amps through a cell that small may cause heat issues if it doesn't have much electrolyte capacity.

[overtaker]

BOYNTONSTU Do you think your pot cell is in the running?

[Haywire Haywood]

I guess you could think of the plates like a wire. If you pull 12a through a 16 gauge wire, it's gonna get get hot. If you pull it through a 6 gauge wire, you won't notice it at all. I've been sitting here muddling that idea about the cell I end up building next.

Thanks

[BoyntonStu]

Theoretically? The needed surface area can be determined by current density and current. We know that for most brute force designs it takes about 12A of current to produce 1lpm, and that .5A/sq.in. is an accepted limit for current density, so the math is easy:

required current/current density=SA of smallest powered electrode
12/.5=24 sq.in.

So I would think that a single cell [+-] would need to be 4"x6".
A double cell [+-+] would have to be at least 3"x4".
A triple cell [+-+-] could be as small as 4"x2"
The more plates you use the smaller they can be.

You'd need a pretty strong electrolyte to get the conductivity up so that the cell will pass enough current. Also running 12 amps through a cell that small may cause heat issues if it doesn't have much electrolyte capacity.

Jazom,

Thanks, good thinking.

I agree with your calculations if the assumptions are correct.

Remember, 'ignore heat'.

The theoretical question is twofold:

a: Are 12 Amps at 13.8 V sufficient for 1 LPM?

b: Is the current limit 0.5 A/sq in?

Are these practical or theoretical limits?

Another way to look at the question is the Faraday/MMW 'limit'.

Bob Boyce is claiming over 12 MMW.

Let's cut that in half to 6.

Go to http://www.watervan.co.uk/tools.php

Your system is generating 6.04 MMW HHO
This number has been rounded down to 2 decimal places, the actual number, according to the data you entered is 6.038647343

This calculator will work out the MMW for you - just enter the following details:

Volts: 13.8
Amps: 12

Mililitres (ml) Produced: 1,000

Amount of Seconds: 60

So, yes it may be possible to produce 1LPM at 12 A if your cell was able to yield 6 MMW.

Zero and others have a really hard time breaking 5 MMW.


Back to area and A/sq in

Let's pump 1 A/sq-in.

Would a 2x3 cell at 24 A also produce 1LPM?

2 Volts at 24 A is only 48 watts.

Going back to the MMW calculator we get 20 MMW, a highly dubious number.

It gets interesting:

What if we pumped 24 A at 13.8 V (331 Watts) into a single cell?

MMW calculates to a very inefficient 3.

If minimum size is the goal, and ignoring heat was the stipulation, a tiny 2x3 cell is possible.

Does this mean that heat aside, one can pump enough Amps/Watts into any size cell and still produce 1LPM?


BoyntonStu

[justaguy]

As haywire pointed out, Randy on another forum is getting like 1 liter in 27 seconds with eleven 2.5" washers. He has 6 of these in series now putting out around 14LMP. With the first 3 he connected in series he went from 24 to 52 mpg on his toyota pickup. BTW, he uses lemon koolaide for his electrolyte.

[BoyntonStu]

As haywire pointed out, Randy on another forum is getting like 1 liter in 27 seconds with eleven 2.5" washers. He has 6 of these in series now putting out around 14LMP. With the first 3 he connected in series he went from 24 to 52 mpg on his toyota pickup. BTW, he uses lemon koolaide for his electrolyte.

URL reference please.


BoyntonStu