Sp1r0 Cell

[sp1r0]

Had this first part of the cell done now for 2 weeks.


Since then, I've been working on a coil winding jig to make the remaining copper coils. It took me 2 hours winding the first coil by hand. And afterwards, it did not have enough "stretch" for the gapping material (.015" fishing line) so it could fit over the tube (Now I use it as a 6ohm power resistor...). With the jig completed, I was able to make the same coil in about 5 minutes. To adjust the ID of the coil I just added regular copy paper around the tube (.005") till I got the desired total diameter. Actually got it right the 3rd time. Now I have 2, 6ohm power resistors!

After researching, and also thanks to some members (Jaxom, sm0kin) here, I am expecting a "solenoid" effect. That is the ionized water will be forced along the magnetic lines. I am anticipating more HHO production from this effect. This effect is know as Electrohydrodynamic propulsion. A mouthful, but it has actually been around awhile. I knew nothing of this effect. My initial concept of coils inside of tubes originated from the need to increase the surface area to it's physical maximum allowed by easily obtainable sources (pipes, coils, screens, etc.). I figured plates are good in one dimension (X plane) so how could I gap in a second dimension (Y plane), and hence the sp1r0 cell.

This now has become a prototype to study the electromagnetic field effects of pulsing inductors with different frequency's. This is a totally different concept than pulsing the tube themselves, which only limits heat buildup.

I will be doing initial testing this weekend as I have almost made the coil winding jig fully automatic. Initially, only tap water will be used, so all the videos you see in this thread, HHO production will be WITHOUT an electrolyte. Eventually, when the final stage is completed, I will remake the cell and test with only distilled water... I believe it will lengthen electrode life, especially since there are two metals in the electrode.

Unfortunately I have no PWM as of yet. That is also in the works. So all initial testing will be 12VDC from a truck battery.

I will keep this thread updated as I progress. All suggestions appreciated!

[HYDROTEKPRO]

That's lookin' like a monster HHO producer.

And you're right, there's a bunch of information related to EMFs used to make HHO production much more efficient!

I want to suggest using one tube as positive, the other as negative, with the copper coil in between them electrically insulated, but energized with the same current, either connected directly to the positive, or the negative tube! Albeit perhaps difficult to accomplish, I believe it'd be a very worthwhile trial!

Excellent idea btw!!

[sp1r0]

That's lookin' like a monster HHO producer.

And you're right, there's a bunch of information related to EMFs used to make HHO production much more efficient!

I want to suggest using one tube as positive, the other as negative, with the copper coil in between them electrically insulated, but energized with the same current, either connected directly to the positive, or the negative tube! Albeit perhaps difficult to accomplish, I believe it'd be a very worthwhile trial!

Excellent idea btw!!

The coil itself is not magnetic wire, but if you look close it is insulated from the surrounding tubes. I wrapped it with, I think 100lb test fishing line. It provides a gap of about .015". There is a little movement of the coil in between the tubes, but not more than .005. Its very tight fitting, that was the 3rd attempt, and even it was not perfect because I didn't cut the right length of wire! It's about 1" too short of the 12" tubes.

I have many tests in mind as far as polarity, but each coil will have it's own PWM. Here's a couple:

1. All tubes are -. Coils pulsed + (both ends of the coils will be connected to +). Resistance will be through the water. (I expect this to be THE producer, but we will see)

2. Tubes alternately charged - and +. That is: the center tube is -, next tube +, and so on. The coils will again be pulsed, this time either end of each coil will be + and -. Resistance will be through the coils and some through the water. This setup will generate the strongest EMF.

How do you think I should measure EMF? Should I just have a superfine piece of wire riding next to the electrode and measure the volts? The higher reading will lead me in the right direction as far as PWM frequency for each core. It's gonna get complicated when I get to the second coil. It'll be a wave riding another wave...

[HYDROTEKPRO]

Even though the coil is not magnetic, running current through it WILL produce an EMF (Electro-Magnetic-Field). This EMF, being concentrated right in the HHO production zone (between the tubes) could make for a whopper of a result of HHO production vs. amps. I would make sure to run current through it (the coil), some how, since this is what makes the EMF!

And pulsing currents at different frequencies? If this is done right, it would further increase HHO gas production.

And, if you want to step the EMF play, wrap the outside tube with bare coil, and just insulate over the whole thing. Wrap it with Saran Wrap, a motorcycle inner tube or something. And, make another bare coil to go inside of the inside tube, fully in contact with that tube as well!!

It looks and sounds promising, but there is no substitute for actual testing.

Keep it simple. Simple solutions are better than difficult and complicated ones!!

And keep us posted!

[computerclinic]

Presonally, I would purchase some of the SS wire on a spool for your experiments SP...The copper wire will mess with the results because as it deteriorates in the electrolyte, it will change the overall chemistry of the solution and foul your experiment results...Just a suggestion...I like the design concept though..looks like a huge ammount of surface area for production and not many places for the bubbles to stick around...

[sp1r0]

Presonally, I would purchase some of the SS wire on a spool for your experiments SP...The copper wire will mess with the results because as it deteriorates in the electrolyte, it will change the overall chemistry of the solution and foul your experiment results...Just a suggestion...I like the design concept though..looks like a huge ammount of surface area for production and not many places for the bubbles to stick around...

I do have SS316 wire .064". Wasted $45 on it. Turns out it is tempered steel it is a very strong metal and when you try to wind it to a certain ID or OD, the spring effect of the metal makes it unsuitable for winding to an exact tolerance. I am actually thinking of copper tubing and distilled water only in the future... way in the future, all this stuff is gonna take alot of time and money.

[Q-Hack!]

I think there was another thread that talked about using different metals in the electrolysis process. I don't remember for sure, but I believe they were stating that you can use softer metals as the cathode as long as you use SS for the Anode. Not sure how that applies to your cell design, since you are coiling the copper, but seems to me that even if you pulse your signal; using copper could work, as long as it is on the cathode side.

Course I could be completely backwards on this...

[computerclinic]

I do have SS316 wire .064". Wasted $45 on it. Turns out it is tempered steel it is a very strong metal and when you try to wind it to a certain ID or OD, the spring effect of the metal makes it unsuitable for winding to an exact tolerance. I am actually thinking of copper tubing and distilled water only in the future... way in the future, all this stuff is gonna take alot of time and money.

One way to get around this is to use some MAP gas and heat the wire while it is wrapped tightly in your jig. The metal wire will have a small ammount of carbon deposit and a bit of discolorisation, but the end result is a good coil similar to what the copper will provide.

This also leads me to a question---Has anyone used a cold weld material submerged in the electrolyte such as JB Weld? I was considering its usage in a generator housing to help seal up a few spots, but im not sure if it will contribute to making "muddy water".

[sp1r0]

The plans for Run your car on water recommends using JB Weld. I also use it all the time at work for small fixes. I would recommend it over common 2 part epoxy.

[Jaxom]

This could make for some interesting effects on the fluid flow within the cell too. Ever heard of magneto-hydrodynamic propulsion? It's basically the same as the electric motor theory: when a magnetic field and an electric current are applied to a conductive material, motion will be generated in that material in a direction perpendicular to both. Since the electrolyte is conductive, you will be creating fluid movement within the cell. It may be possible to use this effect to circulate fluid through the cell and thereby help control temperature or even help extract the HHO more efficiently.