Surface area

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03-16-2009, 03:00 PM
DrBrown

Surface area

Been busy for a while so Im just jumping back into testing my cell again. I have a cell built similar to a smacks. I used 1/16" nylon washers in between. Unfortunately the center plate has a 5/32" nut in between the nuetral plates on each side of it. The plate config is:
[ + N N N N N - N N N N N + ]
http://www.designbydan.com/pt/cell3.jpg
http://www.designbydan.com/pt/cell4.jpg

Output is not great, maybe 0.3-0.5 Lpm at best using a KOH & NaOH drain cleaner. I think the gap in the center is definitely a problem so I will fix that. But I think 5 nuetrals is too many for this particular cell. So Im considering make the cell config like this:
[ + + N N N N - - N N N N + + ]

By doubling the plates that have voltage to them you get more surface area for production. On the down side, possibly more heat since theres one less nuetral. But production would have to improve, then I could use less electrolyte which saves money. Do you guys think more surface area could be beneficial in the double anode setup above?
03-16-2009, 03:24 PM
Painless

Dropping a neutral would definitely up production, but will also increase heat. Decreasing the gap between your plates to something in the order of 1/16th of an inch or less will also make a difference.

How many amps is the cell pulling at the current output and what voltage are you running through it?

Did you rough up the plate surfaces with coarse sandpaper before putting the cell together? This increases surface area.

Russ.
03-16-2009, 08:58 PM
DrBrown

I think the plates are already 1/16" apart. Unless I used 2 washers in between, which I dont think I did. I need to take it apart again anyway. I think Im gonna flatten the plates in the vice so this kills 2 birds in one shot.

I did rough up the plates before hand.

The only thing I have to power it with is a 12v car battery. I keep the charger on it to keep the voltage from dropping when the cell is hooked up. When the charger kicks on the digital amp meter displays the amp draw. Thats my only guage to tell amperage. My multimeter is a piece. Harbor Freight special. It said my car battery was running at 16.8v lol. NOT VERY ACCURATE!
03-17-2009, 12:37 AM
H2OPWR

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrBrown

Been busy for a while so Im just jumping back into testing my cell again. I have a cell built similar to a smacks. I used 1/16" nylon washers in between. Unfortunately the center plate has a 5/32" nut in between the nuetral plates on each side of it. The plate config is:
[ + N N N N N - N N N N N + ]
http://www.designbydan.com/pt/cell3.jpg
http://www.designbydan.com/pt/cell4.jpg

Output is not great, maybe 0.3-0.5 Lpm at best using a KOH & NaOH drain cleaner. I think the gap in the center is definitely a problem so I will fix that. But I think 5 nuetrals is too many for this particular cell. So Im considering make the cell config like this:
[ + + N N N N - - N N N N + + ]

By doubling the plates that have voltage to them you get more surface area for production. On the down side, possibly more heat since theres one less nuetral. But production would have to improve, then I could use less electrolyte which saves money. Do you guys think more surface area could be beneficial in the double anode setup above?

Those outside + plates will not produce any gas. Any current draw will be just by current leakage. You would be better off +nnnn-nnnn+.

Larry
03-17-2009, 08:49 AM
DrBrown

Quote:

Originally Posted by H2OPWR

Those outside + plates will not produce any gas. Any current draw will be just by current leakage. You would be better off +nnnn-nnnn+.

Larry

Dont take this arguing, but maybe I dont understand. If you had 2 piece of metal bolted together that had a + 12v source and then 2 other pieces bolted together with a ground, you would get current through the whole piece(s) that are bolted together. Are you saying the outside + would not have production because the current isn't traveling through it and its just going from the most inner plate to the - plate in the center? I just want to clarify.
03-17-2009, 11:51 AM
Dave Nowlin

Current flows from one plate to another when they have opposite charges. Current does not flow from one plate to another when they both have like charges. Therefore the current would flow from the positive plate which is closest to the negative plate and the other positive plate would be useless.

Dave Nowlin
03-17-2009, 12:02 PM
H2OPWR

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrBrown

Dont take this arguing, but maybe I dont understand. If you had 2 piece of metal bolted together that had a + 12v source and then 2 other pieces bolted together with a ground, you would get current through the whole piece(s) that are bolted together. Are you saying the outside + would not have production because the current isn't traveling through it and its just going from the most inner plate to the - plate in the center? I just want to clarify.

I will never take good discussion on the topic of HHO as arguing. Here it is about everyone sharing and helping. The electrons will flow from the positive plate that is closest to the nearest negative plate only. The extra connected outside plate will serve only as a pathway to the negative plate and will only add resistance. That is just my opinion. Some experimenting on your own will prove it one way or another. I have done many experiments and had some work and many others not work. So carry on.

Larry