Do Not Use Baking Soda Period End Of Story!

[BoyntonStu]

Choice of what “grade” of water to use in a booster
Rainwater, spring water, or tap water contains impurities. A typical analysis will show minerals, suspended solids and more contained in these varieties. These impurities will precipitate out of the water when subjected to electrolysis. These appear in the form of brown, black and green scum in water or any discoloration of the water itself. These impurities has a solid mass which in turn will clog up the electrodes and further impede the operation of the cell overall. Of further concern is the fact that these solids accompany known gases which mix with the hydroxy to go on to create unknown chemical reactions which are toxic to the environment. Therefore ONLY DISTILLED WATER MUST BE USED FOR THIS TASK.
Electrolyte and mixing
There are many different electrolytes that CAN work in an electrolysis process, but does that mean they are suitable? NO. Some common ones considered for hydroxy boost application include:
KOH- Potassium Hydroxide- Used in soap making
NaOH- Sodium Hydroxide- Lye- Used to open drains!
NaCI- Sodium chloride- Table Salt- Raises blood pressure – DO NOT USE!
NaHCO- Baking Soda- Makes bubbles and poisonous gas– DO NOT USE!
H2SO4- Sulfuric acid- Car battery acid- Makes bad gases and burns! – DO NOT USE!
Vinegar ( 5 to 10% solution of acetic acid ) – DO NOT USE!

Sodium sulphate - DO NOT USE!

There are many other electrolytes in the acid, base and salt families, but generally these are the common off the shelf ones considered for use in most hydroxy electrolyzers.

The best choice of electrolyte is judged by its ability to remain unchanged as the reaction takes place. Note first understand what is a catalyst? An electrolyte such as he KOH acts as an ionizer for conduction of the electricity, whereas the nickel in stainless steal acts as the catalyst (hence the finish on the surface of the plates after iron is leached out). Other papers refer to nickel as a catalyst in this electrolysis process. The better the flow of electricity the better the splitting of water to a point, current is the generator of heat. Once most of the free iron has been cleansed from the cells, the KOH or NaOH combines with the nickel (and molybdenum in 316L) to form the catalytic layers. The anode and cathode each take on a slightly different characteristic patina and chemistry.
By using distilled water it must be understood that this water cannot conduct electricity on its own, therefore a catalyst is required in order to aid electrolysis. The ideal catalyst is a substance that enables the reaction to take place without becoming a part of that reaction.

From empirical testing, it has been found that Potassium hydroxide (KOH) and sodium hydroxide (NaOH) are two substances that catalyze efficiently. Tests have shown that when combining distilled water with one of these two catalysts that a cleaner cell bath and more homogeneous hydroxy mix results. This results in a more efficiently operating unit thus an in improved mileage gains, performance and less emissions.

Therefore KOH is what you want to use. It is the most stable, and it is not consumed during the electrolysis. So once you have your cell working at the target amperage you just need to add distilled water as the water is consumed, no more KOH. About once a month you want to use the water from your primary bubbler to replenish your cell. This will put back any of the KOH that may have been carried by pressure or steam to your primary bubbler back into your cell.

Every couple of months you need to check your amp draw to confirm you haven't had any MAJOR Changes. About every 6 months it is a good idea to drain your cell and refill with fresh electrolyte. This is because as you run your booster it should get more efficient and require less KOH to get the same result.

Warning- Potassium hydroxide also known as “caustic potash” is highly caustic. This needs to be handled carefully and kept away from ANY contact with skin, and even more importantly your eyes. If any splashes come in contact with you, by adding water on the effected area will cause it to react and heat up, the use of vinegar will neutralize the burning, then wash it off with allot of rinsing.

Always store it in a sturdy, air-tight container which is clearly labeled "DANGER! - Potassium Hydroxide". Keep the container in a safe place where it can’t be reached by children, pets or people who won't take any notice of the label. When working with dry KOH flakes or granules, wear safety goggles, rubber gloves, a long sleeved shirt, socks and long trousers. Additionally wear a face mask which covers your mouth and nose.

If you are mixing solid KOH with water, always add the KOH to the water, and not the other way round, and use a plastic container for the mixing, preferably one which has double the capacity of the finished mixture. The mixing should be done in a well-ventilated area which is not draughty as air currents can blow the dry KOH around.

When mixing the electrolyte, never use warm water. There results a chemical reaction between the water and the KOH which generates allot of heat. By placing the mixing container in a larger container filled with cold water will help to keep the temperature down, and also prevent any spillage if your mixture should “boil over”. Add only a small amount of KOH (table spoon) at a time, stirring continuously, and if you stop stirring for any reason, put the lids back on you storage container.
Electrolyte concentration DOES have a direct impact upon maximum obtainable efficiency. If the electrolyte concentration is run at below peak conductivity, it is just like inserting resistance in series with a cell. Current flow is limited by the increased resistance of the solution. This causes less power to flow, BUT, more of the power that does flow, is wasted as heat. Therefore, if one wishes to achieve peak efficiency, even at brute force DC, one would want to run the electrolyte concentration at peak conduction, and use another means to control current, such as a current regulator.

Note that this cannot be applied to a Smacks Booster. This design actually uses the increased resistance of more dilute electrolyte to obtain it's step-gap current differential. Since his design has these criteria, it cannot be improved in efficiency by increasing electrolyte concentration to peak conductivity.
KOH is added into distil water to bring conductivity. Without KOH / NaOH the current does not pass through the water from +Ve to -Ve. With the quantity of KOH / NaOH we
control the current draw by the booster. That means if you add more KOH then more conductivity and less resistance hence more current and more gas production for applied voltage and vice versa. Hence the concentration of KOH is directly related to the current draw / gas production.

10% KOH concentration (by weight) is so far reported and understood to be the optimum. NaOH weighs 1.829 g/cm3. If you can find out how many cm3 in a teaspoon this will be very useful. KOH it weighs 11 grams per heaping teaspoon. The following is based on an engineer’s empirical example. This was based on using a Smacks booster where it took @ 3liters of water to which 1 TEASPOONFUL of KOH was added. The amperage reading on startup was @ 20 AMPS which is too high. Recommended starting amperage draw for a cold booster is @ 16 amps per the instructions.

Adjust concentration based on amperage draw. He removed 1 liter of the electrolyte and replenished with distilled water and my starting amperage is now @ 15 amps. This is close enough as the normal loss of water due to use will gradually increase the concentration and subsequent amperage draw as it runs.

Example- To make 1 Kg of a 28% KOH solution by weight, add 280 grams of KOH to 720 cc of water. To make 1 Kg of a 20% KOH solution by weight, add 200 grams of KOH to 800 cc of water. To make 1 Kg of a 10% KOH solution by weight, add 100 grams of KOH to 900 cc of water. The total weight is always 1,000 grams containing whatever percentage of KOH that is wanted.

Using NaOH
If using off the shelf NaOH (drain cleaner or “caustic soda” you must check that there are no other impurities in it. Warning about Drain Cleaners for use in Hydroxy Production

Continued in part 2

I hope that this helps.

BoyntonStu

[BoyntonStu]

Using Baking soda as an electrolyte
Empirical tests have shown that using baking soda as an electrolyte gives a false sense of security. Baking soda will not only remain baking soda in use, but also cause permanent damage to the electrode surfaces during its transition into sodium hydroxide. Note Baking Soda is very dangerous to use.

Empirical tests have shown that after the gas was analyzed, there is hydrogen, some CO2, also enough CO to be lethal. There is NO oxygen produced until ALL of the carbon has been reacted from solution. It is not suitable to state that the gas produced is to be burned and not inhaled. Many experimenters who use baking soda are burning the gas when they are doing their experiments. Most are venting the gas into the air in the room they are in, and even those that DO burn the gas in an engine often-times have leaks in their systems.

Baking soda it will permanently damage the surface structure of stainless steel. That is why it has to be sanded or ground off, and then the cleansing and conditioning started all over again.

Baking soda does not lose potency; it decomposes as a part of the reaction during electrolysis. Some carbon binds with the electrodes and causes damage to the surface structure, the rest of the carbon binds with oxygen to produce other products of reaction during electrolysis. While it is still baking soda, it does not produce hydroxy gas, it produces a blend of hydrogen (H2), carbon monoxide (CO), and carbon dioxide (CO2). As this occurs, the baking soda is transformed into NaOH, sodium hydroxide. This is why it keeps on working, but as the carbon is consumed, the way the gas burns (it changes from bingo fuel gas into hydroxy gas), and the way it effects hydrocarbon fuel combustion during boosting.

A reliable and repeatable performance increase is not going to happen during the decomposition phase of baking soda. It will eventually stabilize, but not until all of the carbon is consumed. If your looking to “escape” the usage of caustics by substation of baking soda.

Baking soda decomposes into NaOH during electrolysis; you end up with a caustic. And the worst part of this is, the end users are lulled into a false sense of security, thinking that it remains safe baking soda. So they are unlikely to take proper safety precautions. And worst of all, if you have expensive SS electrodes, they become damaged as the carbon will also poison the catalytic capabilities of stainless steel. Salt is also unsuitable as is battery acid. To recover them would require a real good sanding to get rid of the surface damage and start over.

DO NOT USE BAKING SODA PERIOD END OF STORY!

Further you would have to add 84 grams of baking soda (NaHCO3) to obtain the same amount of sodium as you would for 40 grams of Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH). This is relevant because it is the Sodium that is driving the electrolysis process.
On electrolysis of NaHCO3, the Na+ ion will rush to the cathode and you will get:-
2Na+ + 2e- + 2H2O -----> 2NaOH + H2 and HCO3- + H2O -------> H2CO3 + OH-
Also
H2CO3 --------> H2O + CO2
Also
CO2 + 2H+ + 2e- -----> CO + H2O
Also
CO + 2H+ + 2e- ------> C + H2O

Conclusion: On adding NaHCO3 a whole range of chemical processes can take place but due to the nature of alkali metals, the one sure conclusion is that Hydroxides will be formed. DO NOT BE DECIVED into thinking that if you make a completely safe electrolytic solution using NaHCO3 or other carbonates that you end up with a completely safe electrolytic solution after use. If one takes pH readings of the electrolytic solution over time, one can access the progress of the carbonate solution (pH will increase with increasing Alkalinity), but my advice is play it safe, where PPE.
But when someone intentionally publishes that using baking soda is safe and does not put out carbon monoxide, sure, there is hydrogen, and sure, there is some CO2, but there is also enough CO to be lethal. There is NO oxygen produced until ALL of the carbon has been reacted from solution. The argument that the gas is to be burned and not inhaled does not mean it is safe. How many of these people that use baking soda actually is burning the gas when they are doing their experiments?

Most are venting the gas into the air in the room they are in, and even those that DO burn the gas in an engine often-times have leaks in their systems. If calculations are correct, then a concentration of just 0.0667 % in the atmosphere you are breathing is enough to bind with 50 % of your Hemoglobin, this is a life threatening situation! For non chemistry people who wish to get a grasp of the toxicity of Carbon Monoxide, a good rule of thumb is, when you think Carbon Monoxide, think Cyanide!

Reference
A glass jar containing wires wrapped around pieces of plastic, and filled with baking soda is NOT a suitable Hydrogen Electrolyzer!

Using Vinegar
A common person may reason that Vinegar (a 5 to 10% solution of acetic acid) is a suitable electrolyte for DC Electrolysis to make Hydroxy. Why not? It’s cheap, sometimes cheaper then bottled water, everybody can buy it around the corner, and it is very safe you can drink it. WRONG.

It's not a good electrolyte, and you can NOT count on its stability. One of the reasons is that is not a solid with an high boiling point like the preferred KOH or NaOH, but pure Acetic Acid is a liquid, with a certain vapor pressure ( you can not smell cold KOH, wile sniffing on a bottle of cold Acetic acid may let your nose fall off, it stinks pretty strong); and it has a boiling point not much higher then water.

( Water = 100°C, Acetic Acid = 118°C ). And because many Cells and Boosters are run on elevated temperatures, some above 90°C, you can imagine that besides your Hydroxy gas, allot of water vapor ( steam) AND also allot of acetic acid vapors will escape such a Cells. Thus you are loosing your electrolyte if you use Vinegar, not so with NaOH and KOH.
Further See : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolbe_electrolysis The Kolbe electrolysis From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia reaction is an organic reaction named after Adolph Wilhelm Hermann Kolbe.The Kolbe reaction is formally a decarboxylative dimerisation and proceeds by a radical reaction mechanism.

As an example, electrolysis of acetic acid yields ethane and carbon dioxide:

CH3COOH ---> CH3-CH3 + CO2 (Shorter form without in between steps)
Acetic Acid gives Ethane gas + Carbon dioxide gas So you get an un-useful gas CO2 (it extinguish flames not promotes explosions) and Ethane gas which is a flammable gas that will behave as a fuel. Your electrolyte is also by the electrolysis process itself falling apart and vanishes trough your engine, you'll be left with plain water, without electrolyte, resistance goes up, amps go down, gas production goes down, and your possible gain in MPG is pretty fast back to zero.
Using Sodium Sulphate (Glauber's salt)

The electrolysis of an aqueous solution of sodium sulphate using inert electrodes produces hydrogen at the cathode and oxygen at the anode and a neutral solution of sodium sulphate remains unaltered by the electrolysis.

Cathode Reaction : 4 H2O + 4 e(-) ==> 2 H2 + 4 OH(-)
Anode Reaction : 2 H2O ==> O2 + 4 H(+) + 4 e(-)
The overall cell reaction is : 6 H2O ==> 2 H2 + O2 +4 H(+) +4 OH(-)

BUT sodium sulphate is much weaker than lye, so you would need much more electrolyte and WORSE: it quickly turns your water into a brown/red substance. Though it does not damage your electrodes, it really does not look good!!So the bottom line is that after all my experimentation I simply decided to stick to lye. Yes it is a drain cleaner and thus caustic, but just like any object or substance that can be potentially dangerous in the wrong hands (e.g. scissors, medicine etc. etc.) you simply need to be responsible and keep it out of the reach of your children. Lye(NaOH) or KOH, when used as electrolyte, is clean and will never damage your electrodes.

Using Ammonia
Ammonia is consumed in the process which means you would have to continuously add more Ammonia instead of distilled water in the case of NaOH. Also Nitrogen is being produced instead of oxygen again in the NaOH case. So what you end up with is no oxygen (good stuff) and nitrogen ( good fertilizer but it won't burn but occupies space in the combustion chamber therefore bad in this application.) This is probably why it in not used.


I hope that this helps.

BoyntonStu

[overtaker]

THANK YOU for this info and your time!:)

[mario brito]

Holly shit ! I had to order a pizza while reading ! ( I know, I know... off topic... ).

GREAT, GREAT, GREAT, GREAT POST !!!!!!!!

EXCELENT WORK !

Edit : I propose this post to be permanent ( sticky ). Just change the tittle then.

[bigapple]

holy


crap


perfect analyizing of all the different electrolytes out there... besides table salt increasing blood pressure, when used in an electrolyzer, it produces poisionous chlorine gas, which is why it produces green water... also, dont use sodium biphosphate which is used to clean fish tanks... i saw one guy use it and it slowly stopped producing as fast since his plates were messed up with the electrolyte

VERY VERY VERY good information boyntonstu

[justaguy]

Thanks for the post.

[John79]

Baking soda may not be the best but it does work. I will try using KOH again if i can find it for a reasonable price. I used to buy KOH for $0.50 a pound in bulk. But not anymore since everyone thinks they can jack prices and rip off HHO users by convincing them KOH is the only thing that will work.

[Bossman]

Very informative. I did get S>H splashed on my lips & of course i rinsed with water. I ALWAYS wear safty gear now. Thanks for the post. I was using Baking Soda & sitch back to Lye. I have new plates ordered & dont want those damaged.

[Westcoastrocks]

Wow Great Info!

I learn so much here. Changing my baking soda ways.....You know I had no idea baking soda was harmful. I know you could use it to brush your teeth and its safe, so i figured the same with a hho gen. My first 3 days after finding out about HHO I built and already was testing my new HHO gen. I noticed that night after testing it for hours using baking soda my chest was burning. i really appreciate the information you gave. I will be super safe and won't ever use baking soda again.

[vortex_01]

OK you might have answered this but I am to ignorant to have seen it. What kind of reaction do you get with sodium carbonate? I was just balancing out my spa when I thought hmm whats in this stuff anyway, and was woundering if it would work for an electrlite, being an experimentor rather than a ready fire aim kinda guy I thought I would ask here and this thread seems the best to get an answer.

Thanks.

[Q-Hack!]

OK you might have answered this but I am to ignorant to have seen it. What kind of reaction do you get with sodium carbonate? I was just balancing out my spa when I thought hmm whats in this stuff anyway, and was woundering if it would work for an electrlite, being an experimentor rather than a ready fire aim kinda guy I thought I would ask here and this thread seems the best to get an answer.

Thanks.

First, Great write up Stu...

Now... Sodium Carbonate is Na2CO3

2(Na2CO3) +2(H20) yields 4(NaOH) + CO2 + CO

In this reaction, you don't generate any HHO until the Carbon is used up. You do however generate both carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide gasses.

Bottom line: also not a good choice.

[redrat100]

Thank you for the in-depth analysis. No doubt that you spent some cash and un-told hours in experimentation and research.

Newbies, pay attention! Listen the mentors here and don't try to reinvent the wheel thinking that your results will be different. I tryed NaCl once with bad results. Then I read up on NaOH in this forum and switched with better results.

This thread should be made sticky but in the electrolyte pages.

[chris1200]

QUOTE: Most are venting the gas into the air in the room they are in, and even those that DO burn the gas in an engine often-times have leaks in their systems. If calculations are correct, then a concentration of just 0.0667 % in the atmosphere you are breathing is enough to bind with 50 % of your Hemoglobin, this is a life threatening situation! For non chemistry people who wish to get a grasp of the toxicity of Carbon Monoxide, a good rule of thumb is, when you think Carbon Monoxide, think Cyanide!

Reference
A glass jar containing wires wrapped around pieces of plastic, and filled with baking soda is NOT a suitable Hydrogen Electrolyzer!

:eek: :D LOL

No disrespect, but I don't agree with you...

A stock engine will produce a WHOLE LOT of more Carbon Monoxide than an electrolyzer itself.

Explosions of hot KOH and NaOH are a huge hazard and as you all know it slowly eats your engine.

The cheapest simplest jar with baking soda is making my car run 51MPG... :cool: and I'm still tuning...

Sorry, just my two cents

[Q-Hack!]

Reference
A glass jar containing wires wrapped around pieces of plastic, and filled with baking soda is NOT a suitable Hydrogen Electrolyzer!

:eek: :D LOL

No disrespect, but I don't agree with you...

A stock engine will produce a WHOLE LOT of more Carbon Monoxide than an electrolyzer itself.

Explosions of hot KOH and NaOH are a huge hazard and as you all know it slowly eats your engine.

The cheapest simplest jar with baking soda is making my car run 51MPG... :cool: and I'm still tuning...

Sorry, just my two cents

Just out of curiosity, are you using an EGT to measure your exhaust temps? I will bet that your glass jar isn't giving you the gains, and instead your EFIE or MAP is. If you just leaned your engine out a bunch, you are going to burn it up.

[chris1200]

Just out of curiosity, are you using an EGT to measure your exhaust temps? I will bet that your glass jar isn't giving you the gains, and instead your EFIE or MAP is. If you just leaned your engine out a bunch, you are going to burn it up.

I'll keep this short as I don't want to hijack this thread. But Your bid is wrong, around half of the gains were from the jar alone...the other half came from installing the MAP later on.

Unfurtonately, the fleabay seller shipped the wrong gauge, had to returned it and I'm still waiting for it to arrive. Meanwhile, I'm reading my plugs and using an infrared gun. So far so good...

Are you peole using your EGT's? Then post your numbers...

[Q-Hack!]

Are you peole using your EGT's? Then post your numbers...

Gladly, however please note that you should not use my numbers to gage your vehicle, as every vehicle will be different. Even if you also have a 2003 Saturn Vue with the 3.0L engine, you will probably have your EGT sensor in a different place than I do.

All tests were conducted with the engine warmed up (water temp at approx. 187 F.) EGT(idle) tests were conducted sitting in my driveway; I gave each idle test at least 1 minute to average out. MPG was measured on a 32.4 mile course, mostly highway with one traffic light. I used the same Shell gas station and the same gas pump to fill up each time using the "top-off" method. 87 Octane in Northern California, winter blend. Average outside air temp approx 60 F. HHO generator was a bath type VSPB 1.4 LPM @ 19 Amps. HHO was fed into air intake just after MAF and before the butterfly valve. EFIE is the digital model from 3rdbrakeflasher.com with the O2 sensor correction voltage stated. (ie. how much voltage I was adding to the O2 sensor)

Stock engine:
EGT(idle) - 1530
EGT(70mph) - 1610 ~ 19 MPG

HHO hooked up but no EFIE:
EGT(idle) - 1520
EGT(70mph) - 1610 ~ 19 MPG

HHO hooked up with EFIE:
EGT(idle) @ .10 volts - 1580
EGT(idle) @ .20 volts - 1630
EGT(idle) @ .30 volts - 1870
EGT(idle) @ .40 volts - 2030 I stopped the test after 45 seconds, as it was still climbing.
EGT(70mph) @ .10 volts - 1680 ~ 21 MPG
EGT(70mph) @ .20 volts - 1790 ~ 23 MPG
EGT(70mph) @ .30 volts - 2020 I stopped this test at the 3 mile mark.

EFIE hooked up but no HHO:
EGT(idle) @ .10 volts - 1580
EGT(idle) @ .20 volts - 1640
EGT(idle) @ .30 volts - 1870
EGT(idle) @ .40 volts -- did not test
EGT(70mph) @ .10 volts - 1670 ~ 21 MPG
EGT(70mph) @ .20 volts - 1800 ~ 23 MPG
EGT(70mph) @.30 volts -- did not test


As you can plainly see, my 1.4 LPM VSPB is not enough HHO to provide safety for my 3.0L engine, when I leaned it out with the EFIE. My next mileage tests will be at more than 3 LPM, but I have yet to build the cell to do this. Hopefully soon.

If you are getting the gains from your jar, then I dunno... maybe you are getting gains from the vapour effect. I try to keep my HHO as dry as possible as I don't want NaOH in my engine.

[BoyntonStu]

Gladly, however please note that you should not use my numbers to gage your vehicle, as every vehicle will be different. Even if you also have a 2003 Saturn Vue with the 3.0L engine, you will probably have your EGT sensor in a different place than I do.

All tests were conducted with the engine warmed up (water temp at approx. 187 F.) EGT(idle) tests were conducted sitting in my driveway; I gave each idle test at least 1 minute to average out. MPG was measured on a 32.4 mile course, mostly highway with one traffic light. I used the same Shell gas station and the same gas pump to fill up each time using the "top-off" method. 87 Octane in Northern California, winter blend. Average outside air temp approx 60 F. HHO generator was a bath type VSPB 1.4 LPM @ 19 Amps. HHO was fed into air intake just after MAF and before the butterfly valve. EFIE is the digital model from 3rdbrakeflasher.com with the O2 sensor correction voltage stated. (ie. how much voltage I was adding to the O2 sensor)

Stock engine:
EGT(idle) - 1530
EGT(70mph) - 1610 ~ 19 MPG

HHO hooked up but no EFIE:
EGT(idle) - 1520
EGT(70mph) - 1610 ~ 19 MPG

HHO hooked up with EFIE:
EGT(idle) @ .10 volts - 1580
EGT(idle) @ .20 volts - 1630
EGT(idle) @ .30 volts - 1870
EGT(idle) @ .40 volts - 2030 I stopped the test after 45 seconds, as it was still climbing.
EGT(70mph) @ .10 volts - 1680 ~ 21 MPG
EGT(70mph) @ .20 volts - 1790 ~ 23 MPG
EGT(70mph) @ .30 volts - 2020 I stopped this test at the 3 mile mark.

EFIE hooked up but no HHO:
EGT(idle) @ .10 volts - 1580
EGT(idle) @ .20 volts - 1640
EGT(idle) @ .30 volts - 1870
EGT(idle) @ .40 volts -- did not test
EGT(70mph) @ .10 volts - 1670 ~ 21 MPG
EGT(70mph) @ .20 volts - 1800 ~ 23 MPG
EGT(70mph) @.30 volts -- did not test


As you can plainly see, my 1.4 LPM VSPB is not enough HHO to provide safety for my 3.0L engine, when I leaned it out with the EFIE. My next mileage tests will be at more than 3 LPM, but I have yet to build the cell to do this. Hopefully soon.

If you are getting the gains from your jar, then I dunno... maybe you are getting gains from the vapour effect. I try to keep my HHO as dry as possible as I don't want NaOH in my engine.

No hho, no effie, 28 mpg to 31-33 mpg using air restriction only! (~40%)

Air restriction fools the ECU into thinking that you car is at a higher location like Denver.

The MAP sensor sees less air and the ECU reduces the gas in order to maintain a 14.7:1 air/fuel ratio.

Air restriction will NOT work on carburetor engines.

I am designing a solenoid operated valve that will open the air restriction at a set throttle position point when full power is needed.

Under 70 MPH I don't notice any loss of power.


FWIW and thank you Lyall Bailey for your great idea!

BoyntonStu

[Painless]

I am designing a solenoid operated valve that will open the air restriction at a set throttle position point when full power is needed.

Instead of a solenoid, why not just install a second butterfly at the air cleaner end of the air intake system? You could link both this butterfly and the throttle body butterfly with one cable and adjust it to suit.

[BoyntonStu]

Instead of a solenoid, why not just install a second butterfly at the air cleaner end of the air intake system? You could link both this butterfly and the throttle body butterfly with one cable and adjust it to suit.

The throttle body cable is almost 90* to the intake and about 0.75 meter away.

A $3.95 door lock solenoid is a cheap solution.

BoyntonStu

[Painless]

The throttle body cable is almost 90* to the intake and about 0.75 meter away.

A $3.95 door lock solenoid is a cheap solution.

BoyntonStu

Can you provide a link for this solenoid?

[BoyntonStu]

Can you provide a link for this solenoid?

http://stores.ebay.com/Memotronics-Electronic-Components

BoyntonStu

$3.89

[Q-Hack!]

Hey, that is not a bad idea... I could easily switch to normal air flow when I want to pull my trailer... mmm... I don't see a down side to this.

[The_Guy]

Hi guys,
I am new to this forum so go easy on me. I like most of you had heard about this HHO for fuel and was intrigued. I have only been researching this for about 2 months now. I currently have a setup pending in my vehicle. If I knew how to upload videos I would gladly show you all my setup.

From the most part, I have been researching the one area that most testers are currently looking at. The ideas of leaning mixture ratios, stratified charges, and improved mixture distribution. As for the catalyst, I had settled for baking soda. I keep reading in allot of these posts, and really just this forum that baking soda is bad. I had heard about the other one mentioned here but they weren't sold within arms reach from where I live. ya, I guess I could just purchase online but after researching this "Potassium Hydroxide" stuff and finding these results which are "Facts". Its MSDS shows:
Danger! Corrosive. Water-Reactive. Harmful if swallowed. Causes severe eye and skin burns. Causes severe digestive and respiratory tract burns.

Potential Health Effects
Eye: Causes severe eye burns. May cause irreversible eye injury. Contact may cause ulceration of the conjunctiva and cornea. Eye damage may be delayed.
Skin: Causes skin burns. May cause deep, penetrating ulcers of the skin.
Ingestion: Harmful if swallowed. May cause circulatory system failure. May cause perforation of the digestive tract. Causes severe digestive tract burns with abdominal pain, vomiting, and possible death.
Inhalation: Harmful if inhaled. <------- Not sure how this is less harmfull than baking soda. Irritation may lead to chemical pneumonitis and pulmonary edema. Causes severe irritation of upper respiratory tract with coughing, burns, breathing difficulty, and possible coma.
Chronic: Prolonged or repeated skin contact may cause dermatitis. Prolonged or repeated eye contact may cause conjunctivitis.

Just with the MSDS alone, this was enough to not have around the house with kids or myself. Like a gentleman said, baking soda is even used as a toothpaste. Completely safe! and not to mention the complete opposite from KOH and these are facts. Now this is in solid forms. So to start we can see that the solid forms of these materials are quite obvious when it comes to health hazzards.

Now I am guessing this is where the technicallities start. After reading your post showing;
KOH- Potassium Hydroxide- Used in soap making
NaOH- Sodium Hydroxide- Lye- Used to open drains!
NaCI- Sodium chloride- Table Salt- Raises blood pressure – DO NOT USE!
NaHCO- Baking Soda- Makes bubbles and poisonous gas– DO NOT USE!
H2SO4- Sulfuric acid- Car battery acid- Makes bad gases and burns! – DO NOT USE!
Vinegar ( 5 to 10% solution of acetic acid ) – DO NOT USE!

Sodium sulphate - DO NOT USE!

This is were I am lost. I don't see how NaHCO3 produces the Carbon Monoxide your discribing. What I do see is the potential for Carbon Dioxide. CO is dangerous and I would agree not to use baking soda if this is the case but I don't see that happening. I even took it to the extent of using my in door CO monitor from my house which I service every year and it did not go off. Now unless they are falsely advertising these CO monitors to work as good as they say they do then I wouldn't worry about these systems not being able to properly identify CO in the air. Not to mention I placed my tourch assembly right in front of the CO monitor and nothing made it go off. Just gave up after 1/2 an hour. I didn't feel these symptoms such as headaches, dizziness, disorientation, nausea and fatigue either, but everyone is different and can react differently. We use carbon dioxide(CO2) in many different ways. The one that comes to mind first is its use in soft drinks and beer, to make them fizzy. Carbon dioxide released by baking powder or yeast makes cake batter rise. Carbon dioxide is one of the most abundant gasses in the atmosphere. Carbon dioxide plays an important part in vital plant and animal process, such as photosynthesis and respiration.

Again, the argument is where is the CO? Electrolysis is a method of separating chemically bonded compounds. Fusion is the liquid or melted state induced by heat to combine nuclei's. But for Fusion to take effect you need heat.

Thermal decomposition - Wikipedia
Above 70 °C or 158 °F, it gradually decomposes into sodium carbonate, water and carbon dioxide. The conversion is fast at 250 °C or 482 °F <----My cell is at about 140 °F

2NaHCO3 → Na2CO3 + H2O + CO2
Most bicarbonates undergo this dehydration reaction. Further heating converts the carbonate into the oxide (at around 1000 °C):

Na2CO3 → Na2O + CO2
These conversions are relevant to the use of NaHCO3 as a fire-suppression agent ("BC powder") in some dry powder fire extinguishers.

Again, this shows CO2 and not CO. There is no "gas-phase" reaction involved, the Equations of State of the liquid and the gas are not the same so I suppose that the reaction mechanisms in the phases of state would not be the same as well. Sublimation or "vaporization"? This is not involved. NaHCO3 cannot sublimate -- it decomposes to Na2CO3 before it could even melt, let alone vaporize to a gas (even the more stable Na2CO3 decomposes to Na2O + CO2 before it could ever vaporize).


So is the only advantage to KOH verses NaHCO3, the cleanliness of it in a cell?

[chris1200]

So is the only advantage to KOH verses NaHCO3, the cleanliness of it in a cell?

That's the only advantage I see...

About carbon monoxide, a stock engine produces a ton of it and is a silent killer, thats why you don't burn gas or let an engine run in a close place (garage, etc.) and breath fumes for a prolonged time.

I just can't imagine the baking soda as a killer that binds your hemoglobin! LOL :eek:

[Halden]

The use of the baking powder is just for the limited people in special cases. If a layman use the baking soda then he have to face the side effects of the baking powder.