Now I know I screwed up...

[MeDiCo_BrUjO]

Well, first of all hello to everybody!. I have been here for a few days now and I've been reading before posting anything, there is much information and it's great that there are people willing to take the time to share their experiences with the rest.

I've been experimenting with HHO (to my limited extent) for a week now. I built the water4gas design and I installed it in a Ford Taurus 97 (a dual jar config.)
Reading this forum's threads made me realize that I've been doing things the wrong way, hopefully I will be able to get back on track in time.

I have some doubts, if any of you can help me I would really appreciate it.

Like I previously said, I'm running a double jar water4gas config, I use Lye in them and they are connected in series.
I have them connected to the manifold vacuum. At first I had them connected with a T to both the manifold vacuum and the air intake, but it seemed that the air intake wasn't getting anything and I finally disconnected it from there and left it exclusively at the vacuum manifold.
Since the suction was really strong, I got scared that the engine was going to pull some lye inside and I decided to build a bubbler.
The suction makes the bubbler bubble really fast.... REALLY fast.
After reading some posts, I decided to switch from the vacuum line to the air intake exclusively to see how things are going.
When I turn the ignition on (just to give them power but without starting the car), the jars start to bubble really good, but the pressure in them is not good enough to make the gas flow to the bubbler. I read in a post that there could be leaks in the jar and that the hidrogen could be escaping through there.
Reading some posts made me realize that I didn't need to put an escape valve in the jars, or a "air intake" valve to let air in the jars.

*I wrapped my O2 sensors (the three I could find) in several layers of foil and a top layer of glass wool to make them hotter so the car would start to send a lean fuel mix, does this actually work???. I've seen that a couple other members have asked this before, but nobody has answered it yet.
*I couldn't find a suitable space for my jars in the engine compartment, so I put them in the trunk. Is there a problem with this?, or should they work fine in spite of the extra distance?.
*Where should I connect the HHO gas line?, to the manifold vacuum line?, to the air intake?, to both?.
Now I know that the water4gas is not the best design out there, I would LOVE to make a generator like Mr. Smith has in his WV's, but given my limited resources (I don't have access to machinery like he has), I think I am stranded with the jars I have.
Will the water4gas generators do something for me?, or should I just disconnect them because they are not good enough?.
I've been testing the Jars for a week, and I haven't seen any improvement in MPG. I do feel like the engine is behaving "differently", but I could be just me all hyped because of the expectations.
Well, I'm sorry if I rambled in this post, but it just reflects my actual state of mind. I really want this to work, and I'm so disappointed that I haven't been doing the right things, hopefully that will change with your help.
Thanks in advance!.

[Smith03Jetta]

You can get somebody to cut your plates for you and bend them as well. Most sheet metal shops are equipped to do it. If you want to bend it yourself you can buy a simple desktop break for about $30.00.

[Farmercal]

MeDiCo_BrUjO, I too tried the Water4Gas thing twice. The second time it did produce gas but kept getting so hot that it melted the frame. I am going to build a smacks design next as I think that is the next step in my evolution of HHO. I know that works and doesn't get as hot and might even prove worthwhile. As far as the wrapping the O2 sensor with aluminum foil.....consider the source. That guy wasn't right about anything else he claimed.

[MeDiCo_BrUjO]

Thanks for the replies, I really appreciate your help.

The water4gas design does generate a lot of heat!. I still don't reach the point where the lid melts, but today in a 30 min. drive when I reached for the jars to try the temp they were HOT!.

After moving the gas hose from the Intake manifold (vacuum) to the air intake, I got the worst mileage EVER!. I average 18MPG and today I got 12.7!!!.

Can I assume at least that the jars are working and that's the reason why the MPG are so low?. (Because of the compensation made by the engine?)
Well, I will be removing the foil from the sensors since it's obviously doing nothing.
How do you measure the output from the generators?. I would like to know if I have enough to connect a MAP sensor and lean the gas mixture a little bit.


Thanks for your help! :)

[Walt]

I hate to say it but I did not get good results untill I cut my losses and junked the W4G. All of the melting, leaking and frustration with wire I about pulled my hair out. About any two hunks of metal in water and lye will work as well as W4G. Cut your losses keep what you learned and move on to a plate, cylinder or pipe design.

[MeDiCo_BrUjO]

Yeah... as ugly as it sounds I think you are right. The wire jar is not a good design and you just can'k keep with all its problems.
I will try to go to sheet metal shops as Mr. Smith told me and I will build (ehem... copy) the pelican box design.
Thanks for all the responses, I will get back to you when I start the new project. :cool:

[justaguy]

It has been said here before W4G is a bad design. It does produce hho but not very efficiently. However, W4G was what got me and a lot of other people interested in hho. I have been more patient than some people and have did a lot of research and i,m glad now I didn,t go for the W4G design. My thanks goes to this forum and another hho forum that now I know there are much better designs available that will get good results.

[c02cutter]

For me is wasn't the w4g, it was a zero video... He was playing with a magnetic motor, which I am still... and almost there with it. My design, not any where near his design. I do have the w4g documents, and now due to a guy wanting custom plates the gas4free docs.

gas4free is closer to what we are doing, but I didn't read it either, they are using a plate construction though.

A word about vacuum and containers. A container, bubbler or any other component in the system has to be designed to handle 2 forces, pressure and vacuum. A system with just voltage and a bubbler has to be able to handle the pressure it takes to make the bubbler to work. It takes pressure to make bubbles. On the flip side, it doesn't matter if your to vacuum, or air intake, you still have vacuum, one is direct, the other is venturi vacuum. So the system needs to be designed to handle vacuum also. In a vacuum system the most minor leek will cause a problem. So if you think you are getting more production from the system under vacuum, you probably really are not. I think this production result that appears to be is coming from a leak under vacuum. Which can cause liquid to get pulled into the motor.

This is not a guess, all of my lasers operate 1st under vacuum, next pressurized with gas. If either direction of pressure goes bonkers (a leak) it fails across the board for operation. It is just not gas either I am dealing with as the oils that are in the vacuum pump and blowers can get sucked up into the system if there is a severe enough leak.