Flashback Arrestor: Only Good for High Pressure

[bigapple]

after doing tons of trial and error and cracking two PVC boxes (although not the best material but gets hot and stays in tact), i have realized that the issue was the flashback arrestor... it created tons of excess pressure inside the generator and i wouldve gotten more lpm if i hadnt had it so pressurized

the bullet point here: if ur generator can withstand plenty of backpressure, use a flashback arrestor cuz it works well to prevent explosion (besides collecting water vapor and throwing that in the intake)

maybe its best just to use them for torches... but this also leads me rite back where i was

how can i create a bubbler that doesnt suck back in water when pressure inside the generator decreases? any good ideas of incorporating it into a generator even?

[Painless]

how can i create a bubbler that doesnt suck back in water when pressure inside the generator decreases? any good ideas of incorporating it into a generator even?

I wonder if there is a type of valve that is closed when current is supplied to it and opened when it isn't. This could be used, supplied by your generator current, to keep the generator sealed when in use, yet, when it switches off, it will allow pressure to equalize with the outside.

[bigapple]

I wonder if there is a type of valve that is closed when current is supplied to it and opened when it isn't. This could be used, supplied by your generator current, to keep the generator sealed when in use, yet, when it switches off, it will allow pressure to equalize with the outside.

wow, thats a really good idea... is there anyone that makes that already or would it be an easy build? haha obviously im up for suggestions

[dennyk159]

You mean something like this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-LATCHING-Manifold-Mount-3-Way-MINI-SOLENOID-VALVE_W0QQitemZ250281700910QQcmdZViewItem?hash=ite m250281700910&_trkparms=72%3A1071%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C 240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

This one also has SS & Viton on the wetted parts...

By the way, very good idea. My check valve between the electrolyzer & bubbler leaks back...

I just noticed the temp rating is sort of low (77F), but there are probably better ones available.

[Phantom240]

Just use a check valve. No more bubbler water in your generator.

[bigapple]

Just use a check valve. No more bubbler water in your generator.

yea thats true but not all check valves seal all the way off and a huge vacuum is created in the generator if u let the temp drop without the pressure leveling out... ud get some rediculous wear and tear on those parts

where would be the best applicable (preferably cheapest) place to get a hold of a solenoid valve? it would be nice to have and prevent bubbler water in the generator and the backpressure of a flashback arrestor

[mario brito]

just a little advice :)

NEVER, EVER, COMPRESS HHO ! NEVER !

HHO is highly explosive, much more then gasoline. if you compress it and add heat to that ( and you have alot of heat in the engine compartiment ), you can get a very powerfull BOMB !

please be carefull

thanks

[bigapple]

just a little advice :)

NEVER, EVER, COMPRESS HHO ! NEVER !

HHO is highly explosive, much more then gasoline. if you compress it and add heat to that ( and you have alot of heat in the engine compartiment ), you can get a very powerfull BOMB !

please be carefull

thanks

yea thats what im trying to prevent... my pvc box wasnt strong enough to hold that pressure without cracking (i guess thats a good thing) and thats why im looking for a solution to using a bubbler cuz water always sucks back into the generator... or possibly something in addition to a bubbler

[FuzzyTomCat]

yea thats what im trying to prevent... my pvc box wasnt strong enough to hold that pressure without cracking (i guess thats a good thing) and thats why im looking for a solution to using a bubbler cuz water always sucks back into the generator... or possibly something in addition to a bubbler

The easy way to stop the bubbler water going into the HHO generator when cooling down is to add a "tee" barb fitting in the HHO generator output line to the bubbler and a check valve on the open "tee" fitting port. The arrow on the check valve should be as ..... outside air > tee fitting ...... allowing outside air in on a vacuume and pressure to be built up in the output line. A small piece of tube about 4" should be put on the outside air end so dust won't clog the valve during the small vacuume made during the HHO generator cool down.

:D

[bigapple]

The easy way to stop the bubbler water going into the HHO generator when cooling down is to add a "tee" barb fitting in the HHO generator output line to the bubbler and a check valve on the open "tee" fitting port. The arrow on the check valve should be as ..... outside air > tee fitting ...... allowing outside air in on a vacuume and pressure to be built up in the output line. A small piece of tube about 4" should be put on the outside air end so dust won't clog the valve during the small vacuume made during the HHO generator cool down.

:D

yea thats what i was thinking when brainstorming for a way to fix the issue... does ace, home depot, or lowes have a check valve with a barb that goes directly on a hose? those r the closest to my house without me having to pay for shipping to order something

[FuzzyTomCat]

yea thats what i was thinking when brainstorming for a way to fix the issue... does ace, home depot, or lowes have a check valve with a barb that goes directly on a hose? those r the closest to my house without me having to pay for shipping to order something

No not that I know of ..... I always get mine from www.usplastic.com or www.pneulinesupply.com

:D

[sm0kin]

you could try your local auto parts store advance auto carries one that fits 1/4" hose.

[smartHHO]

ok, a lot of you must not use the type of check valves we use here in the manufacture of semiconductor equipment. You probably can buy them online. Simple little devices. Now, let me tell you the senario and if I wrong, please do correct me.

1. You Gen produces a lot of pressure the way it is now due to you have a spark arrester in line that holds too much pressure out. Is this water/bubbler or something different of design?

2. You are thinking about spending A LOT of money on an electrical valve or EV as we call them here in my business, so that it is on when the Gen is on and off when it is off?

Ok, first, there is a simple check valve out there that is a simple O> design. The O is a ball that rolls out and lets air pass freely. When air tries to go the other way, the ball rolls into the > thus keeping anything from going back into the Gen.

Second. EVs are running off of 24 VDC normally for operation. So, that now induces another problem, where to get the extra 12 volts.

So, I say go and look up the proper check valve, one that uses the correct tubing size with the O> that I suggest. It will prevent flashback and still let the H out. If I can get a picture of the part, I will post it for you all to see. Simple on design and we use it for the exhaust on our EV manifolds. If we don't have the exhaust then we have BOOM BOOM too.

EDIT: Just added the picture of the check valve. Kind of small, but if you look, you can see the flow ball and arrow on the left and that it says flow free on the right.

[sp1r0]

Out of curiousity bigapple did you use schedule 40 or 80 PVC? I'm using schedule 80 CPVC. Just wondering if I should expect something down the road...

[bigapple]

ok, a lot of you must not use the type of check valves we use here in the manufacture of semiconductor equipment. You probably can buy them online. Simple little devices. Now, let me tell you the senario and if I wrong, please do correct me.

1. You Gen produces a lot of pressure the way it is now due to you have a spark arrester in line that holds too much pressure out. Is this water/bubbler or something different of design?

2. You are thinking about spending A LOT of money on an electrical valve or EV as we call them here in my business, so that it is on when the Gen is on and off when it is off?

Ok, first, there is a simple check valve out there that is a simple O> design. The O is a ball that rolls out and lets air pass freely. When air tries to go the other way, the ball rolls into the > thus keeping anything from going back into the Gen.

Second. EVs are running off of 24 VDC normally for operation. So, that now induces another problem, where to get the extra 12 volts.

So, I say go and look up the proper check valve, one that uses the correct tubing size with the O> that I suggest. It will prevent flashback and still let the H out. If I can get a picture of the part, I will post it for you all to see. Simple on design and we use it for the exhaust on our EV manifolds. If we don't have the exhaust then we have BOOM BOOM too.

EDIT: Just added the picture of the check valve. Kind of small, but if you look, you can see the flow ball and arrow on the left and that it says flow free on the right.

yea im looking at doing a T at the end of the generator and have the check valve on one side and the bubbler to the other... i wanna have the check valve's flow facing the generator to where when pressure equalizes, it can take in air and avoid sucking up the water... its not really for flashback prevention... im just trying to choose the best flashback prevention with the least pressure... a bubbler would be nice and id rather it because its the best flashback prevention i know and filters out the air... as long as i can prevent water suction thats nice... where did u find that picture and where can i get one of these cheap check valves?


Out of curiousity bigapple did you use schedule 40 or 80 PVC? I'm using schedule 80 CPVC. Just wondering if I should expect something down the road...

im not really sure because i just bought it at home depot but id probably say its the cheaper one... its not the same white pvc used in drains if thats what ur talking about... it was a grey dry electrical box

[smartHHO]

I took the picture yesterday from one of our tools. We make machines that make the chips. So, its one of the parts that is bought from a vender. There is no restriction going the exhaust way, but has a ball check valve going the other way. Really good check valve when it comes to air. So, you would not have to worry about water being sucked in, and it would let the pressure out with no problem also. I might go and have a look around floor stock and see if I can find them. If not, I can look up the part number, and find out who makes them. I am sure you can buy them on the web with not an issue. Probably about 5 bucks tops is my best guess.

Here is a link to the PDF for the part: http://www.coastpneumatics.com/pdfs/smc/70AIAKH-AKB.pdf

http://www.coastpneumatics.com/products/checkvalves/intfitcheckvalve.php

It is made by SMC, they make different sizes. You might be able to go to their website and find a local dealer in your area. Depending on the size line you are using.

I do agree a bubbler is a good idea. One, for the flash suppresion, but 2 to take out some of the condensation from the initial breakdown and heat that is formed.

[professorx]

could any of you please post a pic of this t fitting idea? That would be very cool. I want to know exactly how it would attach and what the best kind of fitting to try. Pics can say it all. Thanks!

[professorx]

Hi SmartHHO,
what do you think of the Vacuum Generators (NZHI Economy Series - Silencer Type ) from the Coast Pneumatics catalog?

http://www.coastpneumatics.com/products/vacuum/vacuumgen/index.php

Would this be a good thing to use to increase out put pressure?
What are your thoughts?

[smartHHO]

Hi SmartHHO,
what do you think of the Vacuum Generators (NZHI Economy Series - Silencer Type ) from the Coast Pneumatics catalog?

http://www.coastpneumatics.com/products/vacuum/vacuumgen/index.php

Would this be a good thing to use to increase out put pressure?
What are your thoughts?


Depends on what you are looking to do with it. We use them on our one type of system to pump out the gas panel. Don't see how it could be used in the HHO process. The car already has a vac. The product you are looking at makes a vac out of no power. Kind of self induced to suck out a gas line. The car produces that same vac so there would be no need for it. So if you are trying to do what Big wants to do, you probably be better off with the type of valve I posted up earlier in the section.

won't do anything for pressure.

Hope that helps.