New Cell, Big heat issue

[agentc0re]

So i built a cell using the Stainless Steel Cover plates from your local hardware store. I am using a total of six. arrangement of +-+-+-
I am using SS-316L wire, double twisted, as the leads for the Pos and Neg. I used ABS for my container. 3" diameter. I drilled one extra hole in each plate. spaced them so every plate overlapped eachother. the middle screws where insulated with 1/4" tubing with nylon washers for spacing. the outside screws/terminals where spaces with SS washers and nuts. All bots/nuts were SS. I used heat shrink wrapping around the leads. Lastly, i don't have anything but my car to hook this up to, to test out. I hook it up to the battery using jumper cables.

First, i think the heat shrink burnt off because of heat. After the smoke was gone, i tested to make sure my bubbles were hydrogen. They made loud "pops" when lit on fire. I let it run longer to see if anything else would burn. Next the ABS started to burn around the top leads. Thats when i disconnected it. I then left and came back and noticed that it had melted right through.

Any suggestions as to why or how to improve my method? I will post some pics after this.

[agentc0re]

Here are all my pictures.

[agentc0re]

OH, forgot to mention i'm using Lye and Distiled water for my electrolyte. I only put a teaspoon in the gallon jug.

[shortstack]

take out one of the +- so its +-+- or make them N so ++nn-- or +-nn-+ mix it up and play with it

[agentc0re]

what about adding another +- so i'd have, +-+-+-+- or even +-+-+-+-+-? If i understand running it in a series correctly wouldn't that decrease the voltage in turn decreasing the heat?
+-+-+-+-
14-7-3.5-1.75

+-+-+-+-+-
14-7-3.5-1.75-.875
??

Please correct me if i am wrong. Also, with the first one having 8 cells would that mean each plate is 1.75v or would it decrease as shown by cutting it in half and so only the last plate in the series would be 1.75v?

About your neutral suggestion shortstack, i don't quite under stand having plates that arent either connected to + or -. I've been reading a lot on this forum and another one. People tend to sway both ways about that they can be good and they can be bad. I'm not trying to discredit your suggestion, i do appreciate it. Could you just explain it to me on how the N plates help? :)

OH and side note, when it did work i was producing a ton of hydro. it's just a guess but probably at least a 1 LPM.

[liberybell]

Did you had a chance to test the amperage in cold and in hot (after 15-20 min)
How many amps was your generator consuming?

I would considerate the following:
- Check the amps first.
- introduce n plates to reduce voltage among plates.
- Reduce baking soda.

One thing that I have come to realize during the research for my design is that heat on terminals is due mostly because we are using ss terminals to connect the power from the outside into the electrolyzer.
Ss (stainless steel) has very poor conductivity. The only reason why we use it for our application is because it stands to the chemical reaction of electrolysis longer than any other metal (well at least among the affordable metals.)
So I am planing to use brass instead ss for my terminals. And insulate them well so the electrolyte will not get to it. Then I am also planning to use regular solid copper wire to connect the plates (of course also well insulated.)
This theoretically should improve the conductivity through the terminals therefore reducing heat on terminals. Preventing the melt down of my cover which is a polycarbonate plate.
I actually have a thread asking if anybody has experimented with brass terminals:http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=874
Nobody has replied yet.

[timetowinarace]

loose connections, as in jumper cables, and high amps will cause connections to get hot. Usually more so on the negative side. From your first post I'm assumine your connections are hot and not the water. Plate configureation will make the water hot. Bad connections/high amps will make the connections hot.

[Smith03Jetta]

I had bad experience using SS cable/wire. It seems to not be as efficient as copper as a conductor of electricity. It gets a lot hotter than other wire under otherwise identical conditions. If you want to use stainless as power supply, use heavy braided SS Ground cables or SS metal strips instead.

I will also let you know that the rubber grommets that you are using won't last "Till the water gets hot". They will shrink, come apart, short out your connections. It happened on mine. I even had some of the plastic/nylon washers melt one time.

You will get better results simply using a (+ੂn____nੂn____nੂ-) setup. "ੂ" indicates where the HHO is being produced.. This way you can avoid running bolts through the middle of your plates. Attach the power to only the outside plates. Strap everything together with Zip Ties.

And for Goodness sake take the ABS container that you are using and throw it in that large green trash can. That ABS is good for about 150F. ABS Shrinks when it gets hot. A couple test cycles is all you will need for an explosion or for drain cleaner to leak all over something important.

[dennyk159]

what about adding another +- so i'd have, +-+-+-+- or even +-+-+-+-+-? If i understand running it in a series correctly wouldn't that decrease the voltage in turn decreasing the heat?
+-+-+-+-

The more plates you add this way (parallel) will only draw more current. The way to decrease current draw is to use neutral plates, or wire the plates in series, or build more units that can be wired in series.

[timetowinarace]

I've been using my ABS container for three months now. Boiled the water many times. Still no leaks, no distortion, no explosions.

I must have gotten an exceptional piece.

[Smith03Jetta]

I've been using my ABS container for three months now. Boiled the water many times. Still no leaks, no distortion, no explosions.

I must have gotten an exceptional piece.
You must have purchased something above average. You can see what happened to his connections when they got hot. All I know is from my experience with ABS molding pistol holsters and knife scabbards. The stuff is great but don't leave a pistol holster or knife scabbard in a hot car on a sunny day. You will have a mess on your hands.

[DaneDHorstead]

AgentcOre;

You need to use neutral plates to cut the heat produced by your plates.

I am running the exact same potasium hydroxide solution (1 teaspoon to one gallon of distilled water) and I have three separate generators each pulling 10 amps, at 128 degrees of temp. Each electrode set up is 17 plates and just over 4 sq ft of total surface area, for each generator.

Set up is +NNN-NNN+NNN-NNN+ times 3 wired in parallel.

With 12 volts in, and a 2 volt drop between each neutral plate, the current values are as follows.......

12 10 8 6 4 6 8 10 12 10 8 6 4 6 8 10 12 with 12 representing the positive input power, and 4 representing the negative poles.

The Neutral plates get their power from induction, rather than a direct current source, and therefore each time there is a 2 volt drop between them, which causes the whole thing to run much cooler.

While my system could easilly handle far more catalyst, it would cause heat to rise.

I could easilly add more generators, and keep the heat almost to it's current level.

Currently with three cells in operation, I produce 1.9 Liters per minute, which is ample, although I may add more.

[liberybell]

AgentcOre;

You need to use neutral plates to cut the heat produced by your plates.

I am running the exact same potasium hydroxide solution (1 teaspoon to one gallon of distilled water) and I have three separate generators each pulling 10 amps, at 128 degrees of temp. Each electrode set up is 17 plates and just over 4 sq ft of total surface area, for each generator.

Set up is +NNN-NNN+NNN-NNN+ times 3 wired in parallel.

With 12 volts in, and a 2 volt drop between each neutral plate, the current values are as follows.......

12 10 8 6 4 6 8 10 12 10 8 6 4 6 8 10 12 with 12 representing the positive input power, and 4 representing the negative poles.

The Neutral plates get their power from induction, rather than a direct current source, and therefore each time there is a 2 volt drop between them, which causes the whole thing to run much cooler.

While my system could easilly handle far more catalyst, it would cause heat to rise.

I could easilly add more generators, and keep the heat almost to it's current level.

Currently with three cells in operation, I produce 1.9 Liters per minute, which is ample, although I may add more.

What's the dimensions of each plate?
Also, what are you using for terminals and connections between plates?

[agentc0re]

And for Goodness sake take the ABS container that you are using and throw it in that large green trash can. That ABS is good for about 150F. ABS Shrinks when it gets hot. A couple test cycles is all you will need for an explosion or for drain cleaner to leak all over something important.

What would you recommend instead of ABS? I've seen some made out of acrylic and some out of steel tubes.

[Omega]

What would you recommend instead of ABS? I've seen some made out of acrylic and some out of steel tubes.

Polycarbonate is a good choice. Several people here have fabricated boxes out of polycarbonate with good results. Round configurations are easy to fab up, but boxes allow for bigger plates, at least under my hood.

Check the for sale section, Stratous has some enclosures for sale. The pics give a good idea of what a good polycarb box looks like.

[agentc0re]

So i setup my plates in a new configuration. First i just took the plates as is and didn't try to flatten them with my hammer. I figured that i just made it worse by doing that if my goal is to make the spacing closer.
My setup was +nn--nn+

I found some 3/16 SS wire at lowes that is used for towing cable. It has like 4 or 5 strands wound up together to make the whole wire, so i cut it and unwound a few to use as my wires inside. The gauge is just big enough you don't see it turn hot red like i did with the real tiny stuff.

So connected a wire between my neg plates in the middle for a lead to connect to the battery. I connected the two outside pos sides with a wire, using two washers to squeeze it down. then i also connected another wire on just one of the pos to be the lead.

When i hooked it up, it produced fairly well. I don't have it totally rigged up yet to see how much though. The wire did still get hot enough to start melting the plastic container. I also noticed that the majority of the production was coming from the middle of the two neg plates. I also was reading 10v between the left side +nn- and the right side -nn+. If i kept going down a plate it would read about 2.5v less.

I am wondering if you were to do this but in a larger setup like, +nn--nn+n+nn--nn+ Using a (n) to space out the two pos plates and running it in a series. Would reduce the ammount of heat and voltage running across it.

Hopefully this isn't sounding too confusing and when i get a chance, i'll video it and throw it up on youtube.