Brown Water

[vjm530]

Hi Everyone,

Hope I'm in the right place for my question.

I am running dual HHO generators w/dual Maf Sensor enhansors and so far the results are encouraging but too early for any conclusions. My question is: The water in both bottles gets very brown after 100-150 miles and this has happened twice. Is this normal, should I change the water (which I have done both times) or should I just be concerned with the water 'level'? I have 3/4 - 1 teaspoon of Baking soda in the water with bubble adjustment at 3-5 per second.

The car is a '97 Land Rover Range Rover 4.0 v8 which demands Premium gas. Since installing my HHO I am currently using the middle grade (89) and running great with no ping or loss of power. I also add 2oz of acetone for every 10gal fill-up which adds amazing engine strength and smoothness compared to running without.

With all this said, I would appreciate any comments/suggestions re: the 'brown' water and any other 'positive' suggestions. Thanks:)

[Cyr]

First suggestion: Get rid of the Baking Soda, and buy KOH (Potassium Hydroxide). That will get rid of the brown water.

[vjm530]

First suggestion: Get rid of the Baking Soda, and buy KOH (Potassium Hydroxide). That will get rid of the brown water.

Thanks for your reply. Is KOH powder or liquid and where do I look for this? Thanks again. BTW, is the brown water harmful?:confused:

Just read that KOH produces extreme heat. What is the amount you would use in any form such as pellets, powder or hard?

[ridelong]

vjm530,

The brown stuff won't harm your engine, but I think it makes the cell get more inefficient as it gets worse.

KOH, which is potassium hydroxide can be bought on ebay, also www.aaa-chemicals.com.

I got the flake form from AAA, it's hard to measure out, but not that hard.

This stuff is great, haven't changed my electrolyte for weeks, only added distilled water.

I use 1/4 tsp in my quart bottle. Runs at 4.5 to 5.5 amps fine. BTW it only makes heat initially when you mix it into water.

[vjm530]

I found a local product called 'ROOTO' - 100% Lye Drain Opener w/Sodium Hydroxide. Will this work with 1/4 teaspoon (powder) each (2) jars? Thanks.

[waterworld]

KOH is for sure the best you can use BUT be aware that ANY metal in your system other than stainless steel is going to react. This means nuts, bolts copper wire anything that comes in contact with the electrolyte is subject to disintegration.

[Smith03Jetta]

Sodium Hydroxide will work if you can't find Potassium Hydroxide. Potassium Hydroxide is slightly better.

[bigapple]

the "brown stuff" that ur seeing is rust (ferrous oxide)... the baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) becomes part of the reaction in the cell when u run it... when using lye (NaOH) or potash (KOH), it isnt part of the reaction and is a true catalyst since it isnt used up thru electrolysis... u can use much less of it, draw less current, decrease temperature, and keep a cleaner generator with less maintenance... just add water when the level goes down

[bwhite757]

I don't know, my system is doing the same thing on NaOH and distilled water. This is a picture after 6 straight hours of use on my cell, 340 miles no downtime.

http://www.bcwhite.net/hho/modules/coppermine/albums/hho/normal_S5000703.jpg

Everthing inside the water is either stainless or nylon, I'm not sure why my water is getting so brown either, I've switched it out with fresh about 10 times now, still same situation after a couple of hours of use..

[Painless]

Everthing inside the water is either stainless or nylon, I'm not sure why my water is getting so brown either, I've switched it out with fresh about 10 times now, still same situation after a couple of hours of use..

Hmm... what is your source of NaOH? Perhaps it isn't 100% pure? I.E. contaminants are causing the brown goop?

[Phantom240]

Sure all your metals are the same? Mixing different grades of stainless will do this as well.

[vjm530]

the "brown stuff" that ur seeing is rust (ferrous oxide)... the baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) becomes part of the reaction in the cell when u run it... when using lye (NaOH) or potash (KOH), it isnt part of the reaction and is a true catalyst since it isnt used up thru electrolysis... u can use much less of it, draw less current, decrease temperature, and keep a cleaner generator with less maintenance... just add water when the level goes down

Thanks a lot for the 'cause and effect' and sounds quite logical and certainly understandable. As I mentioned above I've added 1/4 teaspoon of Sodium Hydroxide to each bottle. How do I know how much to use?:confused:

[bwhite757]

Source of the NaOH is Roebec Cyrystal Drain Opener, says 100% sodium Hydroxide, I've also ordered Sodium Hydroxide off the internet with the same result.

All the metel was cut from the same sheet of 304SS, it was sanded, washed with Alcohol, and then handled with latex gloves. The electrodes were also cut from the same sheet of Stainless.

[bigapple]

well ive also had rust buildup from using just lye and id say the culprit is probably high temperatures... if water gets close to its boiling point it mite have a tendency to react with the iron in the plates and cause a little buildup... it doesnt seem to affect the way the plates produce though and it def makes alot less rust than running baking soda... hopefully its just the high temps

[waterworld]

1) the water is not distilled and therefore has impurities.
2) the NaOH is not pure and has impurities.
3) the stainless steel is of a lower grade with less desirable characteristics.

You are going to need to change your cell plates ultimately because they are degrading and causing the 'brown goop' to form. When I first started and used baking soda thinking that it would be ok, it completely destroyed the stainless plates. Now I use KOH and the water stays clean and clear.

[mario brito]

i believe the problem is not the NaHO, but the SS. i've got two different cell's cores, both SS, and with the same water and same NaHO, one of them produces alot of brown stuff and the other much less.

thanks

[BigTruck]

You can select proper materials and use proper construction, and still get dirty water. I think everyone is having to change their water fairly often. At least, its cheaper than an oil change.

The harder the cell is run, then the faster the cell will break down and corrode.

[Atechguy]

Will koh Sodium Hyd. be harmful to my plastic bubbler??:confused:

[BigTruck]

Will koh Sodium Hyd. be harmful to my plastic bubbler??:confused:
Probably not, but it depends on the plastic. Different plastics take different temps and are manufactured to take different corrosions.

[Phantom240]

Probably not, but it depends on the plastic. Different plastics take different temps and are manufactured to take different corrosions.

"Corrosives", not "corrosions".

Sorry, grammar nazi in me.

And KOH (Potassium Hydroxide) and Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH) are two different things. As far as I know, acrylic/lexan will not be damaged by either one of these two chemicals.