Increase productivity/effieciency

[koya1893]

With my latest test with my "waterless" bubbler, you can increase productivity and efficiency by adding vacuum. Mimic the "old mason jar" wet cell system on a dry cell system, you'd be amazed with the result. Especially with diesel engine, even the IDI or pre-chamber system like in the old Benz.

[hhofox]

THanks for the info Koya! I wonder if your setup is different from what I did?

I placed a 'T' on the feeding line between the electrolyte reservoir (bottom) and the (entry point) of the Reactor. I put a check valve on the open leg of the 'T' to allow air into the line, and nothing out. I then attach the regular HHO output line to a vacuum source with some sort of in-line adjuster.

The cell is always sending the gas, but when I hit the accelerator, the air bubbles through it as well. It seemed to yield better results with this setup. It's hard to tell how much more HHO, if any, is produced though, since I am pulling air through it.

How is your system set up?

[koya1893]

THanks for the info Koya! I wonder if your setup is different from what I did?

I placed a 'T' on the feeding line between the electrolyte reservoir (bottom) and the (entry point) of the Reactor. I put a check valve on the open leg of the 'T' to allow air into the line, and nothing out. I then attach the regular HHO output line to a vacuum source with some sort of in-line adjuster.

The cell is always sending the gas, but when I hit the accelerator, the air bubbles through it as well. It seemed to yield better results with this setup. It's hard to tell how much more HHO, if any, is produced though, since I am pulling air through it.

How is your system set up?

My old way of thinking is having problem visualizing your set up, unfortunately mine is on a test trail for future patent and cannot share at this time. I can tell you, on my second test I am calculating a 30% increase. It feels weird barely pressing on the gas pedal at 55 mph and see the car keep with traffic. during idle the automatice idle adjustment on the car work great in cutting fuel.

[hhofox]

It could also be my unclear way of speaking that is preventing you from understanding as well. Here is a picture of the setup. The 'T' with the air check valve is the only addition.

http://www.hhoforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2254&stc=1&d=1361998119

[koya1893]

It could also be my unclear way of speaking that is preventing you from understanding as well. Here is a picture of the setup. The 'T' with the air check valve is the only addition.

http://www.hhoforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2254&stc=1&d=1361998119

Your idea is good, however the whole purpose of adding vacuum is to promote fast circualtion of the solution through the cell and evacuate the gas at the same time. Hence that is why the "waterless" bubbler works perfect to aviod vacuuming any moisture into the intake.

[hhofox]

Thanks, I was also thinking that the waterless bubbler would improve the setup a whole lot as well. It is also so easy to make that all I need to do is find some of that fine white cloth to test it out with.
Thanks for sharing the design again, by the way, you are a great contributor to the whole forum!

[koya1893]

I thought I would tease everyone with my latest test (third test) on my Ram after 250 miles. Stock would get 11.7 mppg on the same type of driving, with 30% WMO and 70% D2 and HOD with current MOD (inducing vacuum) into the system. I calculated 17.2 mpg, that's 68% from stock.

Those of you using the waterless bubler design, show me how you are using it so I can offer some suggestion to improve your system. Especially those running with diesel, you can induce HHO post trubo (inches to the intake).

[myoldyourgold]

Ben, in your experience how close can you be. You say inches..... is this 2 inches or 6 inches or ?? On some diesels the turbo is mounted on the intake manifold and there is absolutely no spot to inject post turbo.

[koya1893]

Ben, in your experience how close can you be. You say inches..... is this 2 inches or 6 inches or ?? On some diesels the turbo is mounted on the intake manifold and there is absolutely no spot to inject post turbo.

On my Ram the photo is rough but it will give you how close, yes my intake in part of the cylider head. the intake elbow is mounted directly above the intak opening as illustrated.
My recent experienced were not consistant, hence I kept testing to have a consistant test. Just got back from a 260 mile running around looking for Porklift motors on similar type of driving. 17.4 mpg this time.

[myoldyourgold]

Thank you Sir. One of the engines I will be working on is a cummins but the turbo is bolted on the intake which has a center divider splitting the manifold into two separate section just below the turbo. It is a stationary commercial engine mounted on a dyno. The cast iron housing of the turbo is bolted right on to the intake. I am out of luck in this case unless I build a spacer to fit under the turbo. I think that is what I will do. By doing this I can weld the fitting into the spacer but will only have an inch or two before the split with just a small spacer so everything else will fit. I am worried it will need more. I think 3 to 4 inches or maybe more is necessary to get properly mixed. Here is a really poor picture but the best I could get my hands on.

Thanks again

[koya1893]

Thank you Sir. One of the engines I will be working on is a cummins but the turbo is bolted on the intake which has a center divider splitting the manifold into two separate section just below the turbo. It is a stationary commercial engine mounted on a dyno. The cast iron housing of the turbo is bolted right on to the intake. I am out of luck in this case unless I build a spacer to fit under the turbo. I think that is what I will do. By doing this I can weld the fitting into the spacer but will only have an inch or two before the split with just a small spacer so everything else will fit. I am worried it will need more. I think 3 to 4 inches or maybe more is necessary to get properly mixed. Here is a really poor picture but the best I could get my hands on.

Thanks again
Now that's a good way to challenge someones vision. I am having a hard time visionalizing the application. A better photo
would help, but I understand not having one. can you draw an illustration?

[myoldyourgold]

Not much to visualize just the turbo bolted directly onto the center of the intake manifold right where there is an internal divider in the manifold separating it into to two separate banks left and right. The only place to inject would be to drill into the turbo cast iron housing that mounts to the intake. It gets to hot to inject there. Even a spacer put there might be to hot. The whole intake is heated by the turbo. Looks like I am dead there.

[Madsceintist]

I placed a 'T' on the feeding line between the electrolyte reservoir (bottom) and the (entry point) of the Reactor. I put a check valve on the open leg of the 'T' to allow air into the line, and nothing out. I then attach the regular HHO output line to a vacuum source with some sort of in-line adjuster.

The cell is always sending the gas, but when I hit the accelerator, the air bubbles through it as well. It seemed to yield better results with this setup. It's hard to tell how much more HHO, if any, is produced though, since I am pulling air through it.

I had the same result, and though I can't put a scientific reason to it for some, I will give you my thoughts.
-The air turning to bubbles in a rush to get somewhere creates a way of breaking up the HHO into smaller amounts as well as adding a mist of water to the mix, which also adds to the increased combustion.
-The reason I use this thought is that on a 71 Toyota corolla I had years ago, I put two pieces of steel screen mesh(from a window screen) under the carb to help break-up the droplets of fuel that would build-up at idle. That gave me a largely noticeable drop in fuel consumption, as it would allow the gas to be broken into smaller droplets. And I understand that the difference is liquid to air(fumes), verses air to air(HHO), but what else is to offer up?? -Science is theory until proven fact calls it science-

[Madsceintist]

Also it makes an even greater increase when you pull the air for this out of the exhaust near the muffler. I'll take a picture in a day or so and post it for one of my uses. Its a stainless steel fuel line that is bent with the exhaust and comes out above the intake for the hose to go on. I had it just after the converter but moved it back to see if the exhaust being cooler would have any effect. Still playing with it.

[Stevo]

I am glad to see this thread topic here. I've wondered about this very aspect for a while now and it sounds like I need to ensure vacuum is present at least for initial tests.

I am especially interested in the introduction of exhaust gas as we know it contains CO and CO2, which can be combined with Hydrogen to produce syngas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syngas


Untreated syngas can be run in hybrid turbines that allow for greater efficiency because of their lower operating temperatures, and extended part lifetime

While I certainly cannot prove simply adding exhaust gas is creating Syngas, I think current facts make this an interesting path for exploration. Crankcase gasses also contain CO and CO2. Steam reformation is a key process in Syngas production requiring high temperatures similar to that of ICE.

[ultra_efficient]

funny thing i am doing now and it seems to give me more HHO per amp. i drive pass a spring/waterfall on the side of the road everyday on the way to and from work, so one day i stop and catch some of the water and took it home to test in a HHO test cell and i got over 1.5LPM for under 10amps@12vdc. cell config is 6n plates, 4.5"x4.5" active space each side. config -nnnnnn+nnnnnn- x2.

so yea natural spring fresh water. try it. i will post videos of the spring fater the holidays. BTW happy easter

[myoldyourgold]

Stevo, in a 5.7 liter GM V8 engine obdI. I was able to increase the EGR by changing washers/orifice. The after market EGR valves come with this tuning option. By doing that I was able to get better gains and increase the amount of HHO with out disturbing the ECU. I did use an EFIE and gains went way up with no loss of power. I need to have it put on a dyno sometime when I get back. Never gave it any thought that it might be making syngas. I was just trying to slow down the burn rate and keep the ECU happy. Have not played with vacuum much but what I have done did not do as good as this. After the final setting exhaust temp dropped 18º F.

[BioFarmer93]

Steve,
I never was really comfortable with the "plasma" idea put forth by the GEET inventor, but the syngas aspect makes a lot more sense to me- probably something worth looking into a little more deeply.

[Stevo]

Some talk happening over at HODInfo:

http://hodinfo.com/forum/topics/syngas-an-added-by-product-of-hho-egr-valve-a-possible-bonus

Honestly, this is the most sound hypothesis I have come across since beginning HHO hobbying over 5 years ago. Very sensible! :D

[ultra_efficient]

just stopping by to share this simple tool with you guys. very cheap and effective. i use the GT Power



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lxv9Rozs774

[Stevo]

Nice! I really like the GT Power. I think it's affordable enough to incorporate in my latest build. Thanks for the info!

[myoldyourgold]

Great find, thanks for sharing. Some deals on Amazon.com. Search under High Precision G.T. Power RC Watt Meter and Power Analyzer 130 Amps

[JasonLucas]

I was also considering that the waterless bubbler would enhance the installation a whole lot as well. It is also so simple to create that all I need to do is discover some of that excellent white-colored fabric to analyze it out with.