My HHO Gen Blows up

[Westcoastrocks]

My Generator has blown up 3 times now. This is not a burning HHO gas explosion. its a pressure explosion that I am positive. But I have no idea why. The first time I found a flaw in my bubbler that made it hard for the gas to pass through. I fixed it and its just like all of the other bubblers out there. But my generator continues to exploded. Any ideas?

[Meat]

Some pics would probably get some gears turning in peoples' heads. Maybe your output line is collapsed inside? Dude, you gotta be having a spark or something arcing inside the generator. Maybe take your output line off your generator and blow into it, see if there's any resistance. Is your generator being damaged when it blows? One idea I had for a cheapo safety relief valve was a film canister with holes drilled at each end and rubber grommets to seal the output hose ends. If you did have an explosion, then it would seem likely that the canister would just pop apart instead of catastrophic damage to our precious projects! I do know that your GIF image is pretty cool!

[Westcoastrocks]

I made yet another case. Went to test it today and it blew up again at 28 miles. I will post a couple pictures of it. By process of elimination I come up with nothing every time.

there are three things that i can think of that would do this. If you can think of anymore let me know.

Flashbacks: I have a bubbler of course, its in the picture. Its very simple hose goes in to the bottom of the jar and the black elbow coming out goes into the air intake. if there was a flashback then it would at best blow up the bubbler. Cause there is no way for the flame to travel under 5 inches of water and up the hose.

Pressure: I have checked all hoses once again before even starting to test my new generator. Everything is perfect. There should be no reason that the HHO gas decides to stay in the fuel cells container and blows it up.

Heat: Every time my HHO generator has blown up i check to see how hot it is, both the cell and the water surrounding it. I figure if I can hold my finger on the cell and in the water, then its not too hot. Id guess that it was no more then 100 degrees. it did not hurt not one bit and I could keep my fingers in there forever at that temp.



So there you have it, I have built 4 HHO Gen cases and all 4 have blown up. I am completely stuck. The fuel cell is awesome its produces a good amount of gas and so far going from 23 to 37 mpg is awesome for my first one. If you could throw out some thoughts that would be really awesome guys thanks!

[timetowinarace]

Spark.

A loose connection somewhere inside like a loose nut, bolt, wire or wiggling plates that get too close together. Some of your plate edges at the top look pretty close together. They can arc.

faulty vaccum. If your injecting into a vaccum port then maybe at times the pressure goes backwords into your unit. A oneway valve might be neccisary. But if this was the case your bubbler water would be MIA.

[Phantom240]

I agree. Something like this
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/gfk8jXVUF34&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/gfk8jXVUF34&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Westcoastrocks]

I can tell you that there is nothing loose either plates or bolts inside the case. As far as the plates go what is considered too close>? I have them 1/16" spaced. However the guy who cut them up for me did not do a good job and making the ends straight. Think that is it?

lol I have seen that video before. I had no idea that could happen. Oh and my plates are spaced this way

-NN+NN-NN+NN-

Can Negative plates cause a spark? If not it would have to jump two plates to arc to create the sparc

I run my HHO gas (after the bubbler) to my air intake. I have it really close up to the throttle body i guess its called. I don't know if that is bad. Sure doesn't seem like it

[Phantom240]

No. One of my prototypes where I used fender washers had a washer come loose and come close enough to arc, and all it did was make a little under water torch.

[timetowinarace]

1/16" is very close. especially when the plate edges are not uniform. I bet you'll find some plate edges closer together than 1/16". Look at a sparkplug and tell me how much gap can produce a spark.

N plate are electrically connected in a electrolyte solution. So yes, they can arc. How many amps are you using?

I can't see gas pressure being the culprit in this case. I think a hose or cap or lid or something would leak before shattering the container like that.

[Westcoastrocks]

I can't see gas pressure being the culprit in this case. I think a hose or cap or lid or something would leak before shattering the container like that.[/QUOTE]

I think you are right about the pressure not being the case. So would you recommend spacing the plates at like 1/8"? I asked our local machine shop to make the plates straight, but obviously they did not take the time to do that. I don't know how many amps I'm pulling because I still have not figured out how to do an amp test because I don't understand how to do a series test. I have read up on it many times but whatever I am doing I'm doing it wrong because it is not working.

[timetowinarace]

I would increase spacing a bit and try it. It's doing you no good right now anyway.

Are you tring to use a multimeter to measure current? A DMM? If so you may have hooked it up wrong at some point and blew the fuse. It happens to the pros all the time.

[dennyk159]

To do an amp test with a multimeter, connect one side of your cell to ground. Then the black meter lead goes on the other cell terminal, & the red lead goes on the battery positive. You must make sure as timetowinarace said, you have not blown the fuse. My cheapo $20 meter is not fused, & has a 20 amp limit. It may be able to handle more than that, but not much.

The most accurate way is to use a current shunt, described here by dennis13030:


Hi,

My name is Dennis and I am an electronics engineer. The low cost and high current way to go is this;

1. Buy a cheap digital multimeter(the max current rating is NOT important). Believe me on this.
2. Buy a current sensing resistor. See this link. It is a 0.005 Ohm, 7 Watt resistor and it's real cheap($4.16).
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=IQQypbyqmm0qLPKYZDPMxg%3d%3d
3. Put this resistor inline with the +12V against the electrolyzer.
4. Use the voltmeter to read the voltage across the sense resistor. Whatever value is displayed, multiple it by 200 for the true current value. This calculation is due to the resistor being 0.005 Ohms.

This gets your cheap DMM an effective maximum current measurement of about 37 Amps.

Note: This method uses the volt setting not the amp setting, & you have to probably use a different input terminal on the meter as well:

[Westcoastrocks]

Yes i am using a digital MM. How can you tell if you blew the fuse?

I just spaced them at 1/8 " did another test and the cell was fine. The only problem is that I drove 45 miles and got the same MPG as I do without the cell....sigh

[dennyk159]

If your DMM has a fuse, they are usually in the battery compartment. Look there first. You may have to open the case to find it. If no fuse is found, investigate the insides for burnt electronics. If your meter is OK, but not reading, it may mean you are going over range, usually indicated by a 1 to the far left. Without anything connected, it should read zero, & may bounce slightly, but in the milliamp range. To test it, you could connect it in series with known resistor & volt values. Ohms law is V=IR or I=V/R, so if you had a 12V battery, & a 12 ohm resistor (to make the math easy), you should read in the neighborhood of 1 amp. To get higher amp readings reduce the resistor ohms. 12V & 3 ohms would be 4 amps...

[timetowinarace]

Yes i am using a digital MM. How can you tell if you blew the fuse?

I just spaced them at 1/8 " did another test and the cell was fine. The only problem is that I drove 45 miles and got the same MPG as I do without the cell....sigh

That's because less current will be going through the larger gaps. You'll have to increase your catalist.

You'll have to open up the DMM. Take the back off. There will be fuse in it somewhere. Check the fuse.

Another option is to get yourself an automotive ammeter. They are simple to wire in series, and you can leave it there. I got one at harbor frieght for $4. Goes to 60A.

[Smith03Jetta]

Harbor Freight Ammeter: GOOD DEAL!!! $4.99

Itemnumber=95778 (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=95778)

Harbor Freight Voltmeter: GOOD DEAL!!! $4.99

Itemnumber=95779 (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=95779)

Non Contact Infrared Thermometer: $39.99

itemnumber=96451 (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=96451)

[Westcoastrocks]

Thanks guys for the help.

[DaneDHorstead]

I made yet another case. Went to test it today and it blew up again at 28 miles. I will post a couple pictures of it. By process of elimination I come up with nothing every time.

there are three things that i can think of that would do this. If you can think of anymore let me know.

Flashbacks: I have a bubbler of course, its in the picture. Its very simple hose goes in to the bottom of the jar and the black elbow coming out goes into the air intake. if there was a flashback then it would at best blow up the bubbler. Cause there is no way for the flame to travel under 5 inches of water and up the hose.

Pressure: I have checked all hoses once again before even starting to test my new generator. Everything is perfect. There should be no reason that the HHO gas decides to stay in the fuel cells container and blows it up.

Heat: Every time my HHO generator has blown up i check to see how hot it is, both the cell and the water surrounding it. I figure if I can hold my finger on the cell and in the water, then its not too hot. Id guess that it was no more then 100 degrees. it did not hurt not one bit and I could keep my fingers in there forever at that temp.



So there you have it, I have built 4 HHO Gen cases and all 4 have blown up. I am completely stuck. The fuel cell is awesome its produces a good amount of gas and so far going from 23 to 37 mpg is awesome for my first one. If you could throw out some thoughts that would be really awesome guys thanks!
The very first thing I notice from the picture is rust!

Obviously, you are not using stainless steel!

Dissimilar metals corrode in these circumstances (as you are intentionally forcing electrolysis, and aiding it, through the use of dissimilar metals).

Through corrosion, the electricity will eventually have to arc, to make its path.

But, it is arcing at the vapor level, and causing the explosion!

Uus 100% non magnetic stainless steel, and nothing else!


Get a large magnet, and test all your materials, if they are even slightly attracted to the magnet, discard them!

[Westcoastrocks]

I know that all my parts are SS inside the Gen. They might not and probably not the best quality of SS. I think what you are seeing is not rust, but if fact the minerals from my tap water. Maybe its even the baking soda that I was using which I know now not to use!

[Westcoastrocks]

Ok i just checked all of my SS parts with a magnet. To my surprise my magnet does not stick or repel my plates or nuts. But it does do it to the 2 bolts and the washers I have connecting everything. Would you replace those? or do you think that it would be good enough?

[smartHHO]

Sounds like you don't have true SS bolts and nuts. I am going to be running solid nylon bolts thru the complete unit. The SS nuts that I am using are from work. We buy only the best since they are used on machines that make microchips. Guess I am lucky on that aspect. Not sure if that is the fix for your BOOM BOOM. hehe

[MajesticMike]

Dude, There is a bunch of things you can do. I say YES replace the non-stainless 2 bolts and the washers you found. Add a pressure gauge that you can monitor. And most important thing... Get or make an auto resetting pressure relief valve! If you wanted to watch the temp, then add a temp gauge too! (you could get one with a wire on it and run it inside the car)

If I were you I'd be testing my system outside my car at this point to see if it can just run on its own without blowing up!

Good luck!

Here are some auto resetting pressure relief valve examples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjctoU6D6c0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G92I8Y1WGAQ