Let's Stop With The Oil Company Conspiracy Theories

[nickalderson]

I think the HHO community should stop ranting about oil company conspiracies. Maybe they're true, maybe they're not. What is true is that when we go on about how the oil companies have killed this person or that person or have suppressed this or that, we do damage to our credibility. Let the data speak for itself.

[dennis13030]

I strongly agree! We should not waste our time with BS stories of conspiracies. HHO forums was not really intended for this.

Also, unproven accusations result in discrediting everyone here.

[mario brito]

I think the HHO community should stop ranting about oil company conspiracies. Maybe they're true, maybe they're not. What is true is that when we go on about how the oil companies have killed this person or that person or have suppressed this or that, we do damage to our credibility. Let the data speak for itself.

i don't whant to disclose any details, but let me just say that some are BS, but i know in first hand that some are not ! and believe me, this type of forums are being monitorized !

apart from that, i agree with you 100%. we are here to discuss HHO and nothing more, so lets keep on that route. i've done my share of "accusations", and i'll try my best to not repeat that.

thanks

[BigTruck]

Hold up! If I didn't believe the conspiracy theories, I would not be working so hard on the entire HHO concept. Inspiration... baby. I read most of the posts each day and sometimes I enjoy a good laugh. I thought this was a forum for common folks. In my world, Paranoia is common.

Hey Dennis13030, I really like your idea on a auto resetting fuses. I'm going to try it.

[HYDROTEKPRO]

Yes, I agree too.

We are lucky that we even have the privilege to purchase the deliberately engineered to be inefficient, wasteful, and polluting, over-priced and monopolied gas and diesel, without having to ask permission before every purchase.

Wait, wait! Are you sure we got permission to experiment with HHO and how about using this site? We DID get permission, right?

[HomeGrown]

In my world, Paranoia is common.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m279/lukecon4/smileys/lg_rofl.gif

[c02cutter]

It's not conspiracy, just money, makes the world go round. Enough said....

[liberybell]

Just by posting this thread you are encouraging others to engage on the upcoming revolution. And guess what... I LOVE IT!!!!
I have been preying for a long time for the right circumstances to fall in place so people will be willing once again, to put their neck in the line to fight for the right of the people; instead just go along with the rich oligarchy to avoid confrontations (the cowards) or to profit themselves (the selfish)
It is that time again!! And this time I am hoping we will act intelligently (no just upset) on the re-architecture of the system.

By the way, I hate the words 'conspiracy theory'... it has an innate connotation of 'a theory that is most likely false' I don't like that...so I refuse to believe that our thoughts of what we think is right versus wrong can only be classify with these two words.
Instead I would like to find out how many of you believe that the following statements are false or good for the people of this nation as a whole:

"A few board of directors and their investors are sharing over 15 billion dollars in profit every quarter while the average American strangles to fill up his tank so he can go to work and have a living."

"45% of the wealth of this country is on the hands of just 1% of the population. And they pay less taxes than the average middle class American (per earned $ of course.)"

"Our congress is so busy with these big corporations' lobbyists that they have no time to attempt to the needs of the American people." [How many middle class people are part of our congress. Do any of you know a congressman that is not rich? (just wondering)]

"While this country is suppose to be the number one economy in the world over 250 million Americans (Around 3/4 of the population) either have no medical insurance or they are so under-insured that they can't afford to get sick." [Just ask yourself can you afford to get sick?]

"While this country is suppose to be the number one economy in the world our transportation infrastructure (including roads, bridges, vehicles, refineries, etc.) is stack in a plan that was implemented back in the 40s and 50s and it has been basically frozen for any kind of main improvement and its maintenance have been sold to corporate America. While other countries with far less economical power have already enter the future and they are enjoying farther advance technologies (e.g.:high speed trains, national and or community solar system, etc.)"

Now in my personal opinion, if you think that any of the above statements are 'conspiracy theories' then kudos to our media!!...the quintessential propaganda system of the world seems to be working well.

[HYDROTEKPRO]

Touche' liberybell! TOUCHE'!

[mario brito]

+1

every word is true ! and all of you guys in USA are facing much more SERIOUS upcoming problems then that. lets not even start talking about your national debt, war's money spending, etc. your wonderfull constitution has been completely "riped off" in the last years...

the problem is that this is not the forum for that :), but like i said before, it's good to see that some people have their eyes open !

thanks

[Smith03Jetta]

But They Are Evil And Walmart Is The Antichrist!

[BigTruck]

I have always beleived in capalistism and the free enterprise system, but its benefits have now been lost in government red-tape and greed. Too many regulations. Hell, MI is trying to take a guys house over a $50. parking ticket that turned into a $2600.00 fine. The government has more greed than anyone.

This is applicable to this forum because the biggest problem in HHO is the delivery system. Making a cell that produces is the easy part. Beating the sensors (regulations) and the computer is the hard part. Will the government give us an inspection sticker even though our solution is green?

They never wanted the engine to be more efficient. Where is the logic in a catalyptic converter. The fuel could have been burnt in the engine, but less fuel = less $.

Consider most of the pollution controls on a new vehicle. They were used to drive up price and cut mileage. If a car can get better mileage without them, then surely less gas would = less pollution.

If I'm wrong, then why is my MAF and O2 sensors killing my HHO efficency?

[Smith03Jetta]

Those sensors are made to regulate your engine at a certain acceptable standard. The Cat is tasked with burning off unused gasoline no matter what the quantity so it doesn't pollute the air with unburned gasoline.

The Only way to make cleaner exhaust is to send cleaner air to the Catalytic Converter than it can create on it's own. HHO helps do that job. The problem with Oxygen sensors is that it measures oxygen. It's a catch 22 for us.

Going back to that acceptable level concept. Somebody had to decide on acceptable fuel levels when the catalytic converter concept came into being. It was a lot easier concept to add a sensor to the engine that controls fuel levels than to redesign the engine to burn the fuel better. It was a matter of economics for the car manufacturers. Re-tooling costs billions. It had nothing to do with Big Oil or anything else. The government standard forced the car manufacturers to cut corners to meet acceptable testing standards. Emissions were of more concern than Gas mileage.

Considering that the government is now slowly increasing fuel mileage standards and lowering emissions standards and car manufacturers are keeping up with the demands of the government it only makes sense that they could have done it all along.

The oil companies, on the other hand are just sitting back, Fat Dumb and Happy, reaping the benefits of the car companies efforts to skirt around the government regulations.

It was with good intentions that the government imposed emmissions laws. The only problem was that the car manufacturers were smart enough to meet the standards of the test but not smart enough to satisfy the SPIRIT of the laws.

I don't believe that there is a conspiracy between the car companies and the Oil Companies to keep gas mileage low. I think it was just the easy thing to do.

[Walt]

The Gov't just needs to get with the 21st and change their taxation practice from a gas tax to a fixed per mile tax that would be reported quarterly. With America weaning it self and becoming more efficeint the gov't can no longer predict their revenues. What we are talking about with gas tax is funding roads and bridges and such. A simple per mile per pound tax would be fair and equitable.

[liberybell]

Those sensors are made to regulate your engine at a certain acceptable standard. The Cat is tasked with burning off unused gasoline no matter what the quantity so it doesn't pollute the air with unburned gasoline.

The Only way to make cleaner exhaust is to send cleaner air to the Catalytic Converter than it can create on it's own. HHO helps do that job. The problem with Oxygen sensors is that it measures oxygen. It's a catch 22 for us.

Going back to that acceptable level concept. Somebody had to decide on acceptable fuel levels when the catalytic converter concept came into being. It was a lot easier concept to add a sensor to the engine that controls fuel levels than to redesign the engine to burn the fuel better. It was a matter of economics for the car manufacturers. Re-tooling costs billions. It had nothing to do with Big Oil or anything else. The government standard forced the car manufacturers to cut corners to meet acceptable testing standards. Emissions were of more concern than Gas mileage.

Considering that the government is now slowly increasing fuel mileage standards and lowering emissions standards and car manufacturers are keeping up with the demands of the government it only makes sense that they could have done it all along.

The oil companies, on the other hand are just sitting back, Fat Dumb and Happy, reaping the benefits of the car companies efforts to skirt around the government regulations.

It was with good intentions that the government imposed emmissions laws. The only problem was that the car manufacturers were smart enough to meet the standards of the test but not smart enough to satisfy the SPIRIT of the laws.

I don't believe that there is a conspiracy between the car companies and the Oil Companies to keep gas mileage low. I think it was just the easy thing to do.

I agree with you... it is not conspiracy... it is a well thought out plan with the solemnly purpose to keep the control of energy industry and to ensure maximum profitability regardless of the impact on the only Earth we have, and on people.

It is true that in some cases corporations just take the shortcut approach to safe on money without premeditated intentions. But if you have ever work for a large corporation (as I have) you know that in the majority of the cases large companies premeditate to the micro-detail their plans always with the same main goal "to increase profitability at any cost. Even at human cost."

If you get a chance take a look at the documentary: "Who kill the electrical car." Also if you get a chance read "A people's history of United States" by Howard Zinn (http://howardzinn.org)
Also if you get a chance take a look at 'The story of stuff' http://www.storyofstuff.com/ This is really good!!!

All large corporations from all industries use Capitalism in the same way. Specially the energy industry, the pharmaceutical industry, the tobacco industry, and the biggest of all our federal government with its foreign affairs.
The key problem is that these giants are using Capitalism indiscriminately and without any type of regulations from those which lives they are affecting: the people.
In our new era Capitalism will still be the tool, but regulations and incentives would be put in place to ensure that respect for humanity and our Earth are above profitability.

[Stratous]

If you dont like the system, then stop buying from it. Big oil, energy, automotive, governments. How do they get their power? How did they get so large? Where do they get all the money? They got it from us by providing products or services. The people dictate what products or services they produce by demand. If we want more suburbans, they they will build them. Its just as much our fault as it is anyones. Maybe high fuel prices are a way to put things back into perspective. Do people really need a 60" tv? No, its greed and desire that make us think we need it. We want big TV's, so capitolism provides it. That is what capitalism is. The market place determined the goods and services that are produced. If the people dont like it, then they stop building it. Government is big, because too many people want the government to take care of everything. Big liberal peoples who like socialism. People who want the government to raise their kids, provide healthcare, food and anything else they would normally have to work for. Those people are the reason the Gov is out of control. The more liberal the people become, the more power the Gov gets. The more power they get, the more they want. This universal health care crap is just another way for the Gov to control our lives. Personally, only handicapped people should be taken care of. If your able bodied and dont work, then I for one have real heartburn with my tax dollars going to your pockets. Most people feel that way I would imagine. In this country, its the lazy people that are sucking the life out of the working class. The problem is, the larger the poor population becomes, the more they will take by virtue of the large amount of pull they have in the voting booths.

[Smith03Jetta]

So far my experimenting with this SCAM of HHO has resulted in me saving between $11.00 and $13.00 a week in gas money going back and forth to work.

[Blinger101]

Not much of a scam now then is it?

I can't wait to contruct mine and put it in my 93' Sentra.

[mario brito]

So far my experimenting with this SCAM of HHO has resulted in me saving between $11.00 and $13.00 a week in gas money going back and forth to work.

no mr. smith. you're wrong. this is a SCAM. it doesn't work. you got your numbers wrong. it's your need to believe... because if you are right, soon there will be a "hydrogen production special tax"... so, lets hear it from everyone : this is a scam and we are stupid people that believe anything... :rolleyes:

thanks

[justaguy]

hho works because you believe it works.
You,re getting more mpg because you believe you are,
You,re saving 11 to 13 dollars a week because you believe you are.

I,m kidding of coarse, or did someone actually say this once? :rolleyes: :)

[liberybell]

If you dont like the system, then stop buying from it. Big oil, energy, automotive, governments. How do they get their power? How did they get so large? Where do they get all the money? They got it from us by providing products or services. The people dictate what products or services they produce by demand. If we want more suburbans, they they will build them. Its just as much our fault as it is anyones. Maybe high fuel prices are a way to put things back into perspective. Do people really need a 60" tv? No, its greed and desire that make us think we need it. We want big TV's, so capitolism provides it. That is what capitalism is. The market place determined the goods and services that are produced. If the people dont like it, then they stop building it. Government is big, because too many people want the government to take care of everything. Big liberal peoples who like socialism. People who want the government to raise their kids, provide healthcare, food and anything else they would normally have to work for. Those people are the reason the Gov is out of control. The more liberal the people become, the more power the Gov gets. The more power they get, the more they want. This universal health care crap is just another way for the Gov to control our lives. Personally, only handicapped people should be taken care of. If your able bodied and dont work, then I for one have real heartburn with my tax dollars going to your pockets. Most people feel that way I would imagine. In this country, its the lazy people that are sucking the life out of the working class. The problem is, the larger the poor population becomes, the more they will take by virtue of the large amount of pull they have in the voting booths.

Can we stop buying Gasoline or diesel...?
Can any of us (no just a few) say:"F*ck it! I am taking the train or the bus to work tomorrow."

I think the point that many of us are trying to make regarding the overwhelming super-power that these giants have is that they have a complete control over our lives and/or way of living. And that is call totalitarianism.
Democracy is about the freedom that people has to make a non-subjected and non-manipulated choice. But when our 'choices' are under control and reduce to one or none then Democracy cease to exist.

[HYDROTEKPRO]

You are both pretty much correct.

Do you think Big Auto has the free will to include the best electrolyzer systems we could ever imagine, on all new vehicles starting in 2010?

[Stratous]

What I am talking about is way bigger than gas. Most people are incredibly impulsive. We buy a super large big gulp when we really only need a small one. The more we want, the more we get. When are we going to wake up and understand that we the individuals are just as responsible as anyone else. No one made me buy my 3/4ton Dodge truck, but I had to have it to tow the great big camper that my wife wanted. Who is to blame? The advertisers, the producers, or my wife and I? How do we fix the problems in our country? If we stopped wasting so much of our earned $$$$ on stuff we dont need, then the problems would fix themselves. Its all about supply and demand. We demand they supply. If we dont demand, then they stop producing so much. Yes, that can have negative effects in the short term, like lost jobs. What we really need to do, is stop being the #1 consumers in the world and start being the #1 producers. Let everyone else consume, we should feed the pig. I am not attempting to belittle anyone elses point of view, just inserting my own 2 cents worth. The world would be a much better place if people were not so superficial. I gotta have the best tv, or the best computer, or the greenest grass, or the biggest house. you know what I mean. I know a guy who is more concerned with how his yard looks than he is about the price of fuel. I know alot of people like that. It would be nice to go back about 50 years when only one person in the family had to work. We can all thank the baby boomers for the chages in that. People had to have more stuff so they could keep up with the jones. If I could get rid of all the bills for items I dont need, my family could live fine off my paycheck. Do I really need two cars if only one person works? Do I really need 4 tv's or 3 computers or a ZTR lawn mower? Most of us put ourselves into the situation that were in. I know I did and I dont blame anyone else but me. Last time I checked no one put a gun to my head or threatened my wellbeing if I didnt buy stuff.

[HYDROTEKPRO]

Stratous, I just cannot disagree with that.

So let's everybody here keep our research & development going strong, making better HHO systems, and adjusting our vehicles to work better with them. Who will get to the 150 to 200 MPG range first!

There are many people currently perfecting their own, 100% water powered cars. Some are on the road already.

Here's one of them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42D6GZLp1DE

Check out this guy's experiment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiKa4nOkHLw
:D