Use shrink wrap or not

[midnight1957]

On another forum I read that you should use shrink wrap at the ends of your plates to force all of the bubbles up past the plates and not go around them, anyone else heard of this and is this something we should consider doing?

Thanks and have a Blessed day,
Wade

[c02cutter]

This does work, and in my own experiments will drop a cell's current draw in half. At least this is the case with my cells.

[stickittoopec]

On another forum I read that you should use shrink wrap at the ends of your plates to force all of the bubbles up past the plates and not go around them, anyone else heard of this and is this something we should consider doing?
Thanks and have a Blessed day,
Wade
Use the wrap. What that is actually doing, is getting your cell closer to a series cell. You will keep the current but you will drop voltage. That is a good thing. You want just enough voltage to push through the cell and keep the current. It is current that makes HHO not voltage. When the smack style units is in a common bath a lot of the current will go around the neutral plates because it is easier and that is what makes all that heat. The wrap acts as an insulator and forces the current through the plates. You will actually be able to measure a voltage drop on the neutral plates. I see the word cells being miss used here a lot. A cell is 2 or more plates in a common bath no matter how many plates neutral or otherwise.
If it is in a common bath it is one cell. With the wrap around the plates each set of facing plates become a cell. In other words if you have 7 plates you will have 6 cells. If you have 13.5 volts and you hook up your wires to each end you will drop about 2.25 volts at each cell. I say about because the top and bottom is still exposed, so you will have some current leakage there. You will also notice that the unit will run a little cooler.

[c02cutter]

I wrapped a smack cell configured as +NNNNN- -NNNNN+ dropped it in the water and set the electrolyte to run at 13.5v 10amps. Wrapped the cell, and dropped it in... Voltage drop was only about .4v, but current was cut in half. Production ws the same, if not better as I was not measuring it. What happens here is if you wrap I wrapped a smack cell configured as +NNNNN- -NNNNN+ dropped it in the water and set the electrolyte to run at 13.5v 10amps. Wrapped the cell, and dropped it in... Voltage drop was only about .4v, but current was cut in half. Production was the same, if not better as I was not measuring it. What happens here is if you wrap the cell you stop some of the straying current (not voltage) to passing into the electrolyte. This compounds into a cell that is containing the voltage and current within itself.
The word “cells” well that has to do with the direction of path in a configuration. A smack design as set up using the pdf is actually 2 cells in a common bath. One cell is running +NNNNN- the other is running -NNNNN+, that is 2 separate directions of path = 2 cells. Do they work off each other, yes, but they are separate entities flowing current and voltage in 2 directions. The electrolyte is nothing but a common just like setting up batteries in parallel, double the capacity, same voltage.

[stickittoopec]

A battery is a good reference for a set of series cells. Cut the top off of a battery and each of the 6 cells are isolated from each other(there is no stray current interacting with the other cells). They are connected in series(+-+-+-...). They make about 2.2 to 2.3 volts at each cell (when fully charged) for a total of 13+ volts for all 6 cells. By the way some cells may have more than 2 plates in each one of the cells. In the series cells that I've made the current remains the same and the voltage drops at each cell. That is the way a series circuit works. I have a small series cell I cut open and did a voltage-drop test on and videoed the test. Here is a link to that. This cell has 3/8” spacing which is too much. That is why it is a demo now. http://stickittoopec.com/video/Series%20Cell%20Demo.wmv

[Smith03Jetta]

My designs are are producing way above the level of these units so I can't comment on whether or not sealing the edges of my plates would do anything. Also my plates are not configured so that sealing the edges would do any good. I think it's way too complicated, personally.

[c02cutter]

Look up series and parallel before you say that we are working in series... a cell that is configured as +--+ is working in parallel. A battery in itself works in series, as you have stated, each +- cell in a battery flows + to – in one direction the , the 2.3 volts are in series, not paralelle!

In a cell set up as +-/-+ you are creating two different fields within the cell which are flowing 2 separate directions. I don't care about battery technology as it was only a reference to “cell and “cells”. The truth of it is this... If you put a cell into the electrolyte that is set up as “+-” or “+N-” you will get only the amount of production that cell can produce but if you add another cell with the current flowing in opposite directions then you have a separate cell doing the same load can and does produce the same basic production in the same electrolyte as the first. Thus being, not “SERIES” but “PARALELLE” in the cell construction that we are dealing with.

[c02cutter]

Sorry for the hijack, will start another thread tomorrow about this.

[Wako216]

im glad this came up ive suspected this for a while and even planned on sealing my plates im gonna try liquid electrical tape, seal all the edges and run a pump to circulate the electrolyte over the plates to keep the bubbles off of them. what you guys think?

[stickittoopec]

Look up series and parallel before you say that we are working in series... a cell that is configured as +--+ is working in parallel. A battery in itself works in series, as you have stated, each +- cell in a battery flows + to – in one direction the , the 2.3 volts are in series, not paralelle!
First off, I've been working with industrial computer automation for 19 years, 10 of them as a lead technician . I know the difference between series and parallel.
I'm not claiming you are working in series. I'm saying it would be better if you did. I think the smack design is a good water heater. Yes, it will make some hydrogen and oxygen, but it will make a lot more heat. That is proven by the heat problems you guys have and will never be able to stop. It is the nature of that design. In an electrolyzer, a lot of extra heat is wasted energy. In a series cell you will not see as much heat. If you think you can wire your plates in series, or series parallel, and drop them in a highly conductive bath and keep the circuit integrity, you need to take a closer look at what is happening. Why would the current go through the plates when there is an easier path in all directions around the plates in the electrolyte? Because the plates are in the same bath you will have current going everywhere. It will be a water heater that makes a little hydrogen. If the outside of the unit gets 140 to 160 degrees and some high enough to melt the plastic (as I have heard some say) what do you think is going on in the area of the plates?
Let's use 13.5 volts and 20 amps. In that cell you only need 1.23 to 2 volts and the 20 amps. You have at least 11.5 volts too much, that is 230 watts to make heat in one cell. In a series cell you will drop the voltage by the number of cells. I usually build a 7 cell, that will be 1.9 volts at 20 amps. That puts me right where I need to be. I will still make some heat (the reaction is exothermic), but nowhere near as much. When I ran the last test cell the temperature in the building was 88 degrees to start. 1 1/2 hours later the unit was 108 degrees. The high end has been somewhere around 120 degrees so far.
By the way, I started with a similar design back in 2004. I quickly found the heat problem and decided I needed to get a better understanding of what was going on before I wasted any more money. Since then I have studied the traditional, and the more current ways of doing this. I found that the Water torch / Browns Gas design to be a lot more efficient.