Impossible or something just not known, over 1LPM low AMP

[Bandee]

Hello guys, Im very pleased to b on this site, i wanted to get through the basic myself before i post any question,. I started to build myself a system, roughly all ok apart from the LPM. At the moment i look like that exhausted Lama above.
Tried many shape, size of plate, connection etc. Wont do enough gas at tolerated Amps, about 1-1.5LPM at 25-30amps. As i did many experiment i confused cos lot of peoples claim that, their 11plate gen could do 2, 2.5, 3 LPM at up to 30AMP 12Volts. :confused:
Pls c this vid were amps and Litres are visiable but NO volts :confused:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLvhAHiD4_c&list=UU-8UVpncyvaznqjJDRcZppQ&index=4&feature=plcp

Same test i did, same amount of gas produced at 24V 30Amp!, as far as i know that is 12V 60AMP, still too much to use it in your car.
Also there is another athlete who belive in that the earth is flat, or that small amount of gas enough for that cc,? Volts not known but he say 10 Amps for 4 generator :confused: vehicle about 4-5000cc :rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RjDDdcSRrI

I have a van, 316CDI sprinter how much litres of hho do you recommend for 2500-3000cc?

Please someone tell me that, is not possible to get hho over ~1.5LPM at 12V 25Amps

[aceras624]

Havent watched the videos but there are many fakes out there

Amperage draw capabilites are determiined by plate size. A taller wider generator could possibly produce more HHO than a number of smaller ones

half of the displacement of the engine per minute is your goal

[Bandee]

Thx for your reply, there is my cell just uploaded the image of it(500ml Carlsberg next to it, that's what can produce 0.5L at zero amps). 7 plates 316l, it could do 1LPM at about 12v 25amp, or could do a lot more if you give more amps, but we gonna keep the amps down that's the target. Same result with more plates. I realised that does'nt really matter how many plates you have, if it's drawing low amp, you get low amount of gas, if you give more amp, you get better results. And it isn't possible to get gas more than 1-1.5lpm at 12v under 30amp by any amount of plates. It's so sad some people try to boost the selling of their product with fake videos. :(

[aceras624]

just watched the first video. Hes not measuring HHO properly. Using a flow gauge is innacurate plus hes done nothing about the excess water vapor that would max out the guage anyway.

Second video, hungarian is annying :) he can easily pull ten amps and limit it with a PWM or lack of concentration in electrolyte. Hes not proving anyhting by saying it cant go past ten amps. That doesnt improve gains or anything. He seems to just be making a video trying to prove his system is safe. those of us whove built our own cells know that his cells are a terrible waste of material and quite inefficient.

Plus you should ALWAYS be weary of the people who say "hydrogen" instead of "HHO". They seem to always be trying to make people think somethings happening thats not

[aceras624]

you said something about it doesnt matter how many plates. We use the extra plates to drop the volts and be more efficient so we're not making heat instead of HHO. More efficient designs yield higher MPG gains. Gneral concensus is to get the voltage below 2 volts per gap

[Madsceintist]

you said something about it doesnt matter how many plates. We use the extra plates to drop the volts and be more efficient so we're not making heat instead of HHO. More efficient designs yield higher MPG gains. Gneral concensus is to get the voltage below 2 volts per gap


1.7 to 2.1 is what is the 'sweet spot'.
Getting that voltage between the plates is 'generally' by using the cars charging voltage to determine the amount of plates you need so you can get 1.7- 2.1 between each plate. OR you can use more or less plates with a voltage regulator to keep your desired voltage between your plates.
Your voltage and the amperage are two different stories! Yes it seems like the more amperage the more production of HHO! Or is it? I guess for the purposes of this forum I should stick with what the majority is use to and works for them. I have different methods for what I use but in general some of its the same.

[aceras624]

1.7 to 2.1 is what is the 'sweet spot'.
Getting that voltage between the plates is 'generally' by using the cars charging voltage to determine the amount of plates you need so you can get 1.7- 2.1 between each plate. OR you can use more or less plates with a voltage regulator to keep your desired voltage between your plates.
Your voltage and the amperage are two different stories! Yes it seems like the more amperage the more production of HHO! Or is it? I guess for the purposes of this forum I should stick with what the majority is use to and works for them. I have different methods for what I use but in general some of its the same.

who decided that 1.7-2.1 is the "sweet spot". I know its what we shoot for, but ive never seen results that prove this

people on THIS forum are ALWAYS interested in what you may be doing thats different from everyone else! SHARE!!!! :)

Also dont voltage regulators waste some energy? Im ALL about efficiency so Id like to know

[Bandee]

Yep, i agree with you guys, i'm talking about the amount of the hho. The heating problem volts/gap etc another story, these can be easily set by number of plates.
So many little trick can be apply, i mean reduce gap from 3mm to 0.8mm, use KOH, not NaOH etc. All these could help to get better results but almost invisible, better with a couple of sec ?!

For example
7 plates 12v25amp ~ 1LPM
7 plates 12v50amp ~ 2LPM
21 plates 12v25amp ~ 1LPM

I guess almost only the amps and volts influence the results, a professional PWM built by the university teacher, electronic engieneer. Duty Cycle, Hertz all adjustable. Does not make a sence at 12v30amp. :mad:
We have a new idea, so i'm expecting a new PWM from this chap this week, i'll leave a note about the outcome.
BSTRGDS

[Madsceintist]

who decided that 1.7-2.1 is the "sweet spot". I know its what we shoot for, but ive never seen results that prove this

people on THIS forum are ALWAYS interested in what you may be doing thats different from everyone else! SHARE!!!! :)

Also dont voltage regulators waste some energy? Im ALL about efficiency so Id like to know




I've been using a wet cell(bath type) NOT SMACK, pumping the water through the cell to speed production. I started with tubes and still use them, even though I'm considering a dry cell idea. This produces enough to run a 2.2 liter Chevrolet 4 cyl. at idle and low loads without gas, and a 1.6 liter Toyota with a moderate load. Passing on long inclines is sometimes to much.
=1.5 mm gap, 9 - 6 inch long(currently) tubes,
=Food grade 316 stainless tubes;
- outside tube 1 inch
- inside tube 7/8 expanded to the outside tube with a piece of plastic 1.5 mm between them, then removed in a press.
- I'm re-burning the exhaust both in part hot and cooled in hole.
- Some of the electronics for my cell are also being doubled for the re-burned fuel.
- The intake air has been reduced, ported and processed for injection.
- Engine timing, ventilation and some very small alterations that aren't difficult have been done.
- I wanted to post pictures, but two things have kept me from that. 1: As I usually do not take advise, a small voice(both friends and family) I finally listened to, said not to be telling people of this. 2: After a post a short while ago we have cars coming by that are increasingly un-easing. So to that I will not be posting any pictures until I have security measures in place. As well I do not wish to lose anything that is seen because I have posted it. I do not believe in conspiracy theory's much but have lived here long enough to notice something different.
- I went to get my car inspected and they told me I would have to leave the car for a day or two which was not something I was told on the phone and this concerns me. At this point I may have to leave the car registered as normal and keep it in my county where emissions isn't required. But that screws up everything I put forth for this. I think that I'm at the point where I'll just sit on this for a while.
- The best thing I can say is to study as much as possible and don't give in if you go in the wrong direction once or twice. If you think its fake or is bullscwat, then be cautious of what ever that may be. I studied everything I could on HHO, Hydrogen, Vaporization of fuels, Propane, and a few other things to get where I am. I always came back to ONE thing, Stanley Meyers! Is it real, Yes. Can I prove it, Yes. Will I stick my neck out, NO. Not right now. It is hard work to do, but not to bad! Having the experience in automotive and comprehension has made it a lot easier.


You can step up or down power and use the energy in the loop of the cell and coils at a minimal draw. Using water with no electrolyte gives a bridge for some of this to have less amperage then others do. I wish I could just give this little bit out but I need something to build on myself here. Even others on here have a need for gain(monetary). I've put forth a lot of sacrifice to get here. I can't be the only one to figure out how this was done, Seriously!!!!!!!

As to the 1.7 to 2.1 voltage, Test this yourself. See what your production is both below that and above that then ask that same question..... I already have!
Try multiple gaps, in plain water, distilled or even rain water(which actually works well, leaves a lot of build-up). This is why I use 1.5 mm.

[D.O.G]

Same result with more plates. I realised that does'nt really matter how many plates you have, if it's drawing low amp, you get low amount of gas, if you give more amp, you get better results. And it isn't possible to get gas more than 1-1.5lpm at 12v under 30amp by any amount of plates. :(

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you.

I've forgotten the actual figures (posted by Nick on nicksrealm, if anyone saved it), but it works out something like this.

Assuming you have the perfectly efficient generator (if such a thing exists) running at 14v
Two plates (+ -, one cell) # amps = # HHO (plus heat)
Three plates (+ l -, two cells) # amps = 2x# HHO (plus heat)
Four plates (+ l l -, three cells) # amps = 3x# HHO (plus heat)
Five plates (+ l l l -, four cells) # amps = 4x# HHO (plus heat)

...and so on, up to eight plates (+ l l l l l l -, seven cells, fourteen productive surfaces) # amps = 7x# HHO.

Why? Because the same current flows through all the cells in series and produces gas on each plate it passes through.

From memory, 1 LPM from 7 series cells requires about 12.something amps* (in a perfect generator).
For me or you, 1 LPM requires 15 amps and upwards.

Edit: *For 7 cells in series, 1A x 13.8V produces 79.8 ml/m, so 12.53A x 13.8V produces 1 l/m.

[Bandee]

Two plates (+ -, one cell) # amps = # HHO (plus heat)
Three plates (+ l -, two cells) # amps = 2x# HHO (plus heat)
Four plates (+ l l -, three cells) # amps = 3x# HHO (plus heat)
Five plates (+ l l l -, four cells) # amps = 4x# HHO (plus heat)


Have you ever tried one of these ? I'm afraid it is not real, as im experimenting with a quite nice built cell as u can c in the uploaded images, i think something not the same as many people say. I been told by electrical engineer,(65yo)

"do not except double energy back from something if you put half into it". PHYSICS LAW
IF IT IS NOT RIGHT, THEN WE CAN FEED THE WHOLE WORLD WITH ELECTRICITY from 1.5v AA battery.
I'm not saying that it won't work, i'm just saying that do not belive in that you put a small into it, and get a huge out of it. As much electricity you put into it as much gas you can get.
12v <30amps, sadly but under or around a litre. :(

[D.O.G]

The pictures you posted concern me a bit.

You claim you are using 7 plates, but the picture seems to only show 5?
Also it looks like they are arranged as two stacks of two cells?
The plate you show has very large holes with nothing around the edges of those holes to reduce the "edge effect".
If those holes all line up when assembled, as seems likely, you will also waste a lot of your input power through current "leakage" through the electrolyte.


The theory is sound.
Whether you are willing to research it or not is up to you, I'm not going to argue about it.

You gave some very cute quotes, here's one I'm fond of.
"You can lead the lama to water but you can't make it drink":rolleyes:

[aceras624]

The pictures you posted concern me a bit.

You claim you are using 7 plates, but the picture seems to only show 5?
Also it looks like they are arranged as two stacks of two cells?
The plate you show has very large holes with nothing around the edges of those holes to reduce the "edge effect".
If those holes all line up when assembled, as seems likely, you will also waste a lot of your input power through current "leakage" through the electrolyte.


The theory is sound.
Whether you are willing to research it or not is up to you, I'm not going to argue about it.

You gave some very cute quotes, here's one I'm fond of.
"You can lead the lama to water but you can't make it drink":rolleyes:


just because you cant see 7 doesnt mean they arent there. Hopefully hes smart enough to count up to 7 :)

where do you see "two stacks of two cells"???

Weldon is a good remedy for the edge issues

[aceras624]

Two plates (+ -, one cell) # amps = # HHO (plus heat)
Three plates (+ l -, two cells) # amps = 2x# HHO (plus heat)
Four plates (+ l l -, three cells) # amps = 3x# HHO (plus heat)
Five plates (+ l l l -, four cells) # amps = 4x# HHO (plus heat)


Have you ever tried one of these ? I'm afraid it is not real, as im experimenting with a quite nice built cell as u can c in the uploaded images, i think something not the same as many people say. I been told by electrical engineer,(65yo)

"do not except double energy back from something if you put half into it". PHYSICS LAW
IF IT IS NOT RIGHT, THEN WE CAN FEED THE WHOLE WORLD WITH ELECTRICITY from 1.5v AA battery.
I'm not saying that it won't work, i'm just saying that do not belive in that you put a small into it, and get a huge out of it. As much electricity you put into it as much gas you can get.
12v <30amps, sadly but under or around a litre. :(


the number of plates youre tlaking about is in a single stack. The theory youre refering to is for multiple stacks. 2 stacks= 2x power plus heat etc. Your diagrams are more about increasing efficiency of a single stack, not doubling production. Also 2 stacks dont give double HHO with the same Amps input. Our goals with HHO are to use a better fuel source to IMPROVE on the antiquated internal combustion engine