Hey all new here

[MrSpot]

Hey all,

I came across this forum while searching for some answers to questions I had about HHO and dry cells. Shortly I intend to build my first dry cell, planning on starting with a 5n5 configuration. I don't immediately have any intentions of sticking it in my car (lease) though the possibility is open for down the line. Right now I am very interested in it for its other practical uses, such as torches, cooking, heating, and a few other ideas I have. I am very much a do it the right way the first time (or at least as close as I can get to it) kind of person and had some questions before I go spending a ton of money. Once I get things going I would also like to be able to share those experiences and perhaps help someone else get started, this seems like a good place to accomplish all that.

My first question is pertaining to power. I have read that deep cycle marine batteries are a common source, however simply using a battery seems as though it would require regular charging, is this efficient, or would simply using a charger or desktop power supply work better. If a battery is the way to go how long does a typical charge last (understandably there are a lot of variables involved in determining battery life). Is anyone out there using Solar or any other source of renewable energy to power their HHO cells.

Another separate project I have is to build a foundry, this is often done by feeding a line of propane or natural gas into an area enclosed by firebricks to contain the heat around a crucible. It occurred to me it might be possible for me to combine the two projects and use HHO as my gas supply. Is anyone here doing this already, is it even possible, I don't know enough at this point about the characteristics and behavior of the gas.

What kind of Liters Per Minute can I expect to get, I am hearing wildly erratic claims, some saying they are getting about a liter per minute others claiming as high as 8, 10, and even saw a 20 liters per minute. I understand that there are a lot of variables involved in determining how much production you get but what is a realistic goal to shoot for, and what does a liter per minute actually mean in practical terms is that something that can be used, is there a minimum threshold.

Lastly what gauge plates should I be looking for, and is there someplace to get 316L plates without spending 50 to 100 bucks depending on gauge which is what I am seeing on average. (it is entirely possible I am not searching in the right place).


Sorry, this turned out to be much longer than I intended, I had a redbull or two and kinda got carried away. Any help you all can give would be greatly appreciated. You all have a great forum and I have thoroughly enjoyed my readings so far. Thank you for all your help.

Gareth
MrSpot

[aceras624]

youve answered all your own questions. The variables in the question you are asking is the issue. Continue to study the areas you feel you need more help with. The vague questions youre asking probably will go unanswered. Sorry

also, HHO reacts with certain metals which you may have figured out by now. The sky is the limit with this stuff. Make as little or as much as you want

[whear]

Hey all,

I came across this forum while searching for some answers to questions I had about HHO and dry cells. Shortly I intend to build my first dry cell, planning on starting with a 5n5 configuration. I don't immediately have any intentions of sticking it in my car (lease) though the possibility is open for down the line. Right now I am very interested in it for its other practical uses, such as torches, cooking, heating, and a few other ideas I have. I am very much a do it the right way the first time (or at least as close as I can get to it) kind of person and had some questions before I go spending a ton of money. Once I get things going I would also like to be able to share those experiences and perhaps help someone else get started, this seems like a good place to accomplish all that.

My first question is pertaining to power. I have read that deep cycle marine batteries are a common source, however simply using a battery seems as though it would require regular charging, is this efficient, or would simply using a charger or desktop power supply work better. If a battery is the way to go how long does a typical charge last (understandably there are a lot of variables involved in determining battery life). Is anyone out there using Solar or any other source of renewable energy to power their HHO cells.

Another separate project I have is to build a foundry, this is often done by feeding a line of propane or natural gas into an area enclosed by firebricks to contain the heat around a crucible. It occurred to me it might be possible for me to combine the two projects and use HHO as my gas supply. Is anyone here doing this already, is it even possible, I don't know enough at this point about the characteristics and behavior of the gas.

What kind of Liters Per Minute can I expect to get, I am hearing wildly erratic claims, some saying they are getting about a liter per minute others claiming as high as 8, 10, and even saw a 20 liters per minute. I understand that there are a lot of variables involved in determining how much production you get but what is a realistic goal to shoot for, and what does a liter per minute actually mean in practical terms is that something that can be used, is there a minimum threshold.

Lastly what gauge plates should I be looking for, and is there someplace to get 316L plates without spending 50 to 100 bucks depending on gauge which is what I am seeing on average. (it is entirely possible I am not searching in the right place).


Sorry, this turned out to be much longer than I intended, I had a redbull or two and kinda got carried away. Any help you all can give would be greatly appreciated. You all have a great forum and I have thoroughly enjoyed my readings so far. Thank you for all your help.

Gareth
MrSpot



Hi,


Concerning production, the more plates you have, the more HHO you can create. However, the more you add plates, the more you lose efficiency. Efficiency is pretty much the relationship between the Amperage you're using and LPM.

For example, with 7 plates, 1 stack reactor, 5n, -nnnnn+, with 8"x6" plates you can expect to get around 1LPM @ 12-15 A.

1 stack means 1 set of neutrals between 2 electrodes.

If you want to produce more HHO, you add more stacks of neutrals ( and more electrodes ), but you lose efficiency. Ex: 2 stack reactor: -nnnnn+nnnnn-

For the SS plates, there's someone on the forum ( his name is hhomakers ) who is selling 316L plates. Custom cut, very good price.

I bought some plates from him for my first cell, and I received them yesterday.

I don't have the necessary expertise to verify if the plates are 316L for real, but they're not magnetic, so it's a good start. LOL

He claims they're 316L and seemed trustful to me, but it's your decision.

About powering your dry cell, I can't help you very much. I do know for a fact that if it's 14V instead of 12V, you should add an extra neutral plate for each stack ( so 6 instead of 5 ). Otherwise, the reactor will run hotter and lose efficiency.


Good luck,


Andrei.

[MrSpot]

Cheers for the speedy replies.... so it sounds like efficiency and production are inversely proportional. so with the 8"x8" 5n5 generator I am planning on making I should be able to expect a couple liters per minute but will presumably generate a fair amount of heat as I up the amperage to make up for the loss in efficiency.

Almost seems as though it is better to have multiple single stacks rather than one large one.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction for the 316L. LOL I don't have that expertise either, and probably would start checking the same way. I have learned the hard way though to always have online purchases double checked. But the questions for the bottom line are...do they work and was the price good. Thats my standard for most things LOL.

[whear]

Cheers for the speedy replies.... so it sounds like efficiency and production are inversely proportional. so with the 8"x8" 5n5 generator I am planning on making I should be able to expect a couple liters per minute but will presumably generate a fair amount of heat as I up the amperage to make up for the loss in efficiency.

Almost seems as though it is better to have multiple single stacks rather than one large one.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction for the 316L. LOL I don't have that expertise either, and probably would start checking the same way. I have learned the hard way though to always have online purchases double checked. But the questions for the bottom line are...do they work and was the price good. Thats my standard for most things LOL.

First of all, what do you mean by 5n5 ? 1 stack ? More than 1 stack ?

Well, you can only go so far in terms of Amperage if you don't want to damage the plates and run inefficiently. There should be a maximum Amperage, and it is dependent on plate size and number of stacks.

The reactor divides the total Amperage used by each plate by the total number of stacks.

Ex: 1 stack reactor @ 30 A -> each plate in the reactor runs @ 30 A. Configuration -nnnnn+
3 stack reactor -> each plate in the reactor runs @ 10 A. Configuration -nnnnn+nnnnn-nnnnn+


Now, for any plate, you shouldn't go more than 0.5A per square inch of active area on one side of a plate. ( active area means = not covered by gasket, gasket is generally 0.5" wide )

Ex: 1 stack reactor 6"x6" sized plates -> active area of one side of a plate = 5"x5" = 25 square inches on one side of a plate -> so your reactor shouldn't pull more than 12.5 A

For a 2 stack reactor with same plate size, your reactor should pull no more than 25 A.

And so on..

Cheers,

I hope your head is not exploding like mine was 2-3 months ago, when I was trying to understand all this. :D

[Stevo]

5n5 means:

5 cells where 5 unhooked ("neutral") plates exist to divide voltage.

+nnnnn-nnnnn+nnnnn-nnnnn+nnnnn-

1 2 3 4 5


And towards the amperage efficiency comment: there are some odd things about that statement.

Amperage (so long as kept at or under .5 Amps / square inch active surface area) does not reduce cell efficiency itself. Instead, other factors such as gas and water flow (whether you use a pump or not), gap size, gap voltage (< 2V is better), plate thickness and electrolyte concentration are what determine volumetric "efficiency". The higher the voltage; the higher the current potential.

One part is true: the higher the active surface area; the higher the amp potential as well. So at this point you should consider gap, voltage and electrolyte concentration more carefully. It is highly suggested to increase the surface area of your active plates + - so that your current potential is as high as possible. Then you will want to use a lower voltage than 2V for the plate gaps and a lower electrolyte concentration to control the amps. It is a very delicate balance, but if done properly will result in a very efficient cool running cell tuned to produce the amount of gas you originally intended.

Having less waste heat from higher voltage electrolysis is very important. Heat is not a bad thing in these systems unless it comes from your reactor. In fact, heat actually makes the water more conductive and can increase efficiency. Again, just make sure it doesn't come from your reactor.

[MrSpot]

Thanks much guys. Thats huge information, just gotta get paid so I can start experimenting. Is current flow totally determined by electrolyte concentration.

Any ideas as to what kind of power supply I should use.

Is anyone here doing anything else with this stuff other than car installations and torches. Seems as though it has the potential for a myriad of uses.

My head is definitely exploding, so much information to take it, think i gotta clean out all that useless stuff I don't use LOL.

[Stevo]

Until electrolyte is added, yes it is the only thing that will truly determine current flow. Afterwards, however, many other things will determine current flow.

[BioFarmer93]

Until electrolyte is added, yes it is the only thing that will truly determine current flow. Afterwards, however, many other things will determine current flow.

tee hee hee hee- smartazz;)

[BioFarmer93]

Greetings Spot,
You questions are highly logical.

Sorry- just couldn't resist:D An aluminum foundry is on my to-do list also. I'm SURE that you've already researched and found that HHO burns at better than 7000 feet per SECOND, and I KNOW that you're going to augment the propane or waste oil fuel that you're burning with HHO injected into the intake of the blower and NOT directly into the flame zone, RIGHT??!:eek: In all seriousness, it would take a mighty reactor(s) to make enough HHO to use as primary fuel, let alone figuring out a way to keep the jets cool enough to prevent pre-combusting the gas in the delivery tubes.

My first question is pertaining to power. I have read that deep cycle marine batteries are a common source, however simply using a battery seems as though it would require regular charging, is this efficient, or would simply using a charger or desktop power supply work better. If a battery is the way to go how long does a typical charge last (understandably there are a lot of variables involved in determining battery life). Is anyone out there using Solar or any other source of renewable energy to power their HHO cells.

Another separate project I have is to build a foundry, this is often done by feeding a line of propane or natural gas into an area enclosed by firebricks to contain the heat around a crucible. It occurred to me it might be possible for me to combine the two projects and use HHO as my gas supply. Is anyone here doing this already, is it even possible, I don't know enough at this point about the characteristics and behavior of the gas.


What kind of Liters Per Minute can I expect to get, I am hearing wildly erratic claims, some saying they are getting about a liter per minute others claiming as high as 8, 10, and even saw a 20 liters per minute.
The LPM you get will depend on the size, construction, efficiency, wattage, design and electrolyte strength of your reactor. All of the LPM claims you listed above are entirely feasible.


I understand that there are a lot of variables involved in determining how much production you get but what is a realistic goal to shoot for, and what does a liter per minute actually mean in practical terms is that something that can be used, is there a minimum threshold.
The goal to shoot for is determined by the use that the gas is needed for, you
may only need 1 medium or large sized reactor, or you may be served better by making 4 or 5 medium sized reactors. We'll need more input from you to help you determine this. In practical terms, 1 lpm of HHO is just about ideal for improved mileage and emissions on a 2.0L engine. A minimum threshold for what? Usage? I met a guy in Bradenton, Fl. that had a tiny reactor on a 23cc weedwacker engine that powered a beach cruiser style bicycle- 1/4th of a lpm of HHO took it from something like 63-67 mpg to over 100mpg. I guess my point is, a minimum threshold would really depend on the application.


Lastly what gauge plates should I be looking for, and is there someplace to get 316L plates without spending 50 to 100 bucks depending on gauge which is what I am seeing on average. (it is entirely possible I am not searching in the right place).

Call around locally and see if anyone has any 18,19 or 20 gauge leftovers from other jobs that they will make you a good price on. I don't know where you are at, but unless you're in the wilds, there's probably a supply and at least a shear equipped shop within 75 miles of you, call around for a water jet or laser cutting service (fab shop) in your vicinity. Try to stay local with your purchases if feasible, order online only as a last resort. I'll tell you right now though, you're going to part with more money than you anticipated..:(

Live long and prosper....

[MrSpot]

Greetings Spot,You questions are highly logical.

LOL brilliant,

I am not that far along with the foundry yet still reading and learning. but I'm glad you said something, that is probs gonna save a big error in the future.

It sounds to me as though this is the kind of project that has so many uses that each project using my reactor is probably going to require a bit of tweaking. Think I am going to give in my "right the first time" approach and adopt the scientific method (probs where I should have started to begin with, like everything else lol) to see what is going to work best for me. When I get everything up and running I will post some pics for you all to see.

Thank you all for your help, I am very excited.