Well this is discouraging

[sjrobinson]

So I got results on a highway trip. But haven't been able to get anything since. My usual driving route for the past week has not resulted in an increase in MPGs. If anything it has gone down I little. I suspect my Volo chip is crap. But they were nice enough to extend my return to 90 days if I found no definite results.
Anyone know bout this? Whats your trouble shooting process?
I fear if it is then I will have to buy a MAP sensor enhancer and O2 EFIE. The MAP sensor enhancer I see as simple enough to hook up but the O2 EFIE I'm still a bit confused about. I have a 97 Accord so I'm guessing I will need both.
Anyone know how I can maximize my results for city driving? I have a dry cell with a bubbler that is connected to a hole in my cold air intake closest to the throttle body after the PCV valve.

[whear]

Hello,

What's the size of the engine ?

Do you have any more details on the dry cell ?

What kind of plates are you using ? What configuration ?

How many LPMs is the reactor producing ? Is there steam involved ? Is your cell hot ?

How many amps is the cell pulling ?

What electrolyte are you using ? And in what concentration ?



P.S. I edited the post because I first read "wet cell" instead of "dry cell" and wrote a lot of nonsense. lol

[sjrobinson]

2.2L 4 cylinder gas engine.
this is the cell:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/160509521492?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

running at about a 2 teaspoon NaOH: 1 liter distilled water ratio. at 10-15 amps

[Quebecker]

2.2L 4 cylinder gas engine.
this is the cell:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/160509521492?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

running at about a 2 teaspoon NaOH: 1 liter distilled water ratio. at 10-15 amps

Hello,

If you want my advice, return your VOLO chip to the provider and wait few weeks. When Carter aka "MyOldYourGold" will sold his new EFIE, then you got a product capable of handling all the sensors suitable for fuel economy.

Regards
Remi

[Madsceintist]

So I got results on a highway trip. But haven't been able to get anything since. My usual driving route for the past week has not resulted in an increase in MPGs. If anything it has gone down I little. I suspect my Volo chip is crap. But they were nice enough to extend my return to 90 days if I found no definite results.
Anyone know bout this? Whats your trouble shooting process?
I fear if it is then I will have to buy a MAP sensor enhancer and O2 EFIE. The MAP sensor enhancer I see as simple enough to hook up but the O2 EFIE I'm still a bit confused about. I have a 97 Accord so I'm guessing I will need both.
Anyone know how I can maximize my results for city driving? I have a dry cell with a bubbler that is connected to a hole in my cold air intake closest to the throttle body after the PCV valve.



The PCV vacuum is in the intake plenum on the downside of the throttle plate. If you have your HHO tubed in through the crankcase vent tube(not pcv) then you need to dedicate a feed line to the HHO by itself for intake feed. Or put a check valve on the valve cover side of what you have. You don't want to feed the crankcase your HHO just the intake !

By the way you have a distributor and if you take it out and elongate the holes(there not adjustable on most now) for mounting you can retard the timing by 3-4 degrees and that will help your burn with the HHO as well, meaning you will see improved results. BE SURE you mark where the two are before you adjust, use a chisel to mark between the distributor and the head before you pull it out so you can always return it to there. As well you can only put it back in one way as the shaft is offset.

[sjrobinson]

So I got some of that and some of it I did not get. Is my HHO tube in the right spot? Its going directly into the engine with the rest of the air that passes through the throttle body.

And I'm not too sure about altering the timing on my car. I don't want to go that far in fear that it will mess other things up.

[Madsceintist]

So I got some of that and some of it I did not get. Is my HHO tube in the right spot? Its going directly into the engine with the rest of the air that passes through the throttle body.

And I'm not too sure about altering the timing on my car. I don't want to go that far in fear that it will mess other things up.

Okay, your pcv valve gets the air that it pass's from the engines crankcase and inside the valve cover, then is sucked into the intake. The crankcase gets its air from the vent tube which is feed by the intake tube. So install the HHO away from it having to pass through the engines crankcase before its pulled in through the pcv valve. You want it to enter the intake as quickly as possible, so close to the throttle! See picture.

Also if you adjust your timing you will get a better burn out of the HHO to gas as the hydrogen burns much faster and at a higher rate than gas. It WILL help if you retard your timing by 3-4 degrees, some use 6-7 (retard) but yours probably wont take that much. Do some research! No damage will occur as long as you use the HHO with the altered timing. If your not running the HHO, go with your original timing. This is why you mark it so its just a 30 sec. adjustment to go back with. Try this your way then mine, SEE what you get !!! Then tell us. Or ask a mechanic.....................:D:D:D

[sjrobinson]

I have the hose going to the correct spot. Ill look up the timing and see how to do that.
Could the spark plugs affect it greatly? I recently put in new ones that I thought were pregapped correctly but if they aren't the correct gap could that hinder my results?

[Madsceintist]

I have the hose going to the correct spot. Ill look up the timing and see how to do that.
Could the spark plugs affect it greatly? I recently put in new ones that I thought were pregapped correctly but if they aren't the correct gap could that hinder my results?


Never assume that plugs are gaped properly, check them. Also you should be running a Denso or NGK platinum in that engine. O.E. works best in any engine!

[sjrobinson]

I suppose if I do the timing I'll have to get a timing gun. How exactly do I adjust it to how you said? What do I look for with the timing gun?

[whear]

How much HHO are you producing at 10-15 A ?

[sjrobinson]

The stats say a liter in 45 seconds at 15 amps, and based on what I've seen, that looks about right. But I have not actually timed it.

[myoldyourgold]

[QUOTE]The stats say a liter in 45 seconds at 15 amps, and based on what I've seen, that looks about right. But I have not actually timed it./QUOTE]

I suggest you measure it because I think you will find it is much different. This is based on others who have the same reactor. It is closer to 20 amps or even more to make 1 liter with that reactor in one minute. I know it is not making 1 liter in 45 seconds at 15 amps.

[sjrobinson]

Regardless, my car only needs a certain amount while drawing so many amps to be efficient. I would see an increase anyways right? There is a significant amount being produced.

[myoldyourgold]

You should be getting better mileage just by reducing the amps. It takes more gas to make 50 amps than 25 ams. No or very little gas at idle and less amps you should be ahead of the game right there. Let us know how it goes.

[sjrobinson]

This is what I am doing. Although related to that could it be why my city MPGs are not changing? If I keep it at 10 amps since I cruise a lot in neutral it cancels out?
While highway is at about 3000rpm the electricity used is easily created.

[myoldyourgold]

X amount of amps take x amount of gas to make. There is very little difference between rpm except in low rpm high torque engines compared to torque being made at higher rpm and very little at low rpm. The drag on the alternator is the same for x amps in most cases. I turn off the reactor at idle and tune for only above idle. It requires a more complex system to maintain pressure when off and no leaks to prevent any lag with good valves. Since you have two reactors you might do what I do on some larger engines where there are multiple reactors that come on at different throttle position/RPM. Putting the peddle to the metal all are on and at cursing only one or less and at idle none on. That is very simply put and there is a lot more to it. I am talking about 15 liter engines or larger in heavy equipment or 18 wheelers though. Might work in your setup though. Just a thought but would suggest you master what you have going first.

[sjrobinson]

Seems rather complex but would somehow setting up a PWM to the trottle postion be a solution to that?

For now I will change the timing but I'm thinking about possibilities for making the system as handsfree as possible once it is all working well enough.

[myoldyourgold]

The type of PWM you have will need to be worked on to do that or a special add on made. PWM's that are used in golf carts and the like you can do that with and everything is available but you have to have deeeeeep pockets. There has to be a spot that will work. I know it takes a lot of patience to find it though.

[sjrobinson]

Ok, just an idea for the future.

About the distributor to adjust timing. I've read that turning it counter clockwise on my car will help with performance. Is this the same direction I want to turn it for HHO?

[myoldyourgold]

Turn it the same way the rotor turns.

[Madsceintist]

Ok, just an idea for the future.

About the distributor to adjust timing. I've read that turning it counter clockwise on my car will help with performance. Is this the same direction I want to turn it for HHO?


CAUTION......... If your NOT running HHO, than you advance the timing to gain some power. HOWEVER, were talking about using HHO, so you want to retard the timing as I said, the HHO helps to burn the gas more efficiently and you need adjust to accommodate the burn of the HHO! SO you retard the timing.

If you marked or mark the distributor before you move it, then move it slowly in a clockwise direction from the top of the cap. The marks will be near 1/8 of an inch apart or so.

[sjrobinson]

Oh, I understand that. Thanks.

Now I just got back from a 140+ mile trip. Highway driving averaging 70mph. My MPGs with the cell running was 28.1 and without was 28.5 with the same distance. Granted direction changes wind speeds and other factors but based on those results it appears my car is not getting the benefits. That was based on my Ultragauge. A mixture of about 85 highway miles and 90 city miles took up around 7.6 gallons of gas while running HHO the entire time. This equals about 23 mpgs combined. My car should and has gotten on average 28 city/highway.
I'm gonna do an early oil change and see how that goes with my car but I need some help with this.

I have a few ideas as to why this isn't working:

-That damn volo chip. I hate it >.> but i've been patient with it. Possibly it is not working and the HHO is just being cancelled? My car does not like the chip?
-Also, I use a mixture of NaOH and distilled water. I put the NaOH in the jug with the water. Could that have caused a corrosion on the plastic that would go in the cell and hinder its HHO production?

Those are basically the only two things I can think of. On one highway trial with a significant load in my car I achieved 36 MPG so there must be something going on. It seems my car does have potential.

[aceras624]

those are pretty short term test results. Youd be best to take a larger sample and average them :)

also why does everyone hate these volo chips so much? thank god I never got one!!! :)

[sjrobinson]

Theyre not that short term since I have been taking many tests under a variety of conditions. These are the most definitive. My MPGs do not vary too much. Without HHO they are around 28 to 30 between my weekly routine of city and highway driving. After running the cell in my system for the past two weeks and the volo chip alone for several weeks prior, one would expect at least some results.
I should be seeing results much easier than what I see.

My question about the EFIE or even adjusting the timing is that running leaner would lower gas consumption anyways right? Is there a certain amount that the EFIE would save on in gas anyways (just not in a productive manner)? So how do I know that the HHO is helping my car and improving MPGs? Isn't there a risk since running the engine lean can cause problems if there are issues with the HHO or how the car responds to it?

[whear]

You should really measure your production.

If you run an inefficient cell, your only gains would be a cleaner engine and exhaust.

[sjrobinson]

I know the cell has to run well.
And what of my EFIE and timing question?

[Madsceintist]

Not impressed with the VOLO chips reputation as I hear it, but that's not to say much in its self. What difference have you seen with verses without it? I take my mileage readings per hundreds of miles or per tank full. Hard to do it with good results any other way. Sorry but there's a lot of variables that go into it and I'm behind on what your driving also.

[sjrobinson]

While there are many variables, with my driving habits they are actually very routine. It appears my MPGs have diminished with the Volo chip. However, thats not for sure. The car has been getting good economy until I started this project which makes me think it is the Volo chip. I suspect my car's computer just doesn't like it. I will take out the chip and then drive around for half a tank to see what happens. I'll send it back and then buy a Map sensor enhancer to see how that goes. I have questions concerning these though...

By my understanding the enhancer will make my engine run lean. This can be bad unless I have the HHO to make up for that. Same thing for the timing. How will I know that my engine is not being damaged by running lean and how will I get the other benefits of the HHO? Say I am putting HHO in the system but how would I be able to vary the amps without harming my engine?
I'm not sure if that makes sense. Also, based on my car, does anyone think I'd need an EFIE with the MAP sensor enhancer?

[Quebecker]

I think you need a EFIE that control all sensors O2, MAP, IAT, CTS

See EFIE Tuning 101

[sjrobinson]

how does this look?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300699480458#ht_3086wt_1219

[myoldyourgold]

Based on some of the other junk this vendor is selling I suspect the EFIE is in the same category. Without testing it one can not be sure. I think it will be a wast of money.

[sjrobinson]

Ok, thanks. What would you recommend? I'm on a tighter budget now but if I'm able to get results that will save money in the long run. I just don't wanna spend so much that it takes a while for the payback. I will get $90 once I return the Volo chip. What can I get that will most likely work for around or under that?