ionizing air charge to increase combustion???

[dswareagle]

i know its not hho stuff but i was just nerding out and wondering if you could ionize your air charge in your air intake with something like a starship coil and wether or not this might make the air more reactive in your engine... just letting my mind run wild

[Weapon_R]

I am sure thing this would work. I have not tried it yet but hope to do so in the coming months. So much to do so little time.:D

[myoldyourgold]

I use an ozone generator in the intake stream before the HHO injection. It works good. You have to tune everything and have just the right amounts of everything to see good results. I have posted this many times before.

[dswareagle]

awesome what are you using to power it?

[myoldyourgold]

It is made for 12 volts and draws about 1 amp and is hooked up to my system so it comes on when everything else does. For larger engines it requires a larger one and they draw about 3 amps. Check out eBay for 12 volt ozone generators. Just do not get suckered into the 4 or 5 dollar cigaret lighter ones they do not last but a few days if they work at all and do not put out enough to make a difference.

[Stevo]

I use an ozone generator in the intake stream before the HHO injection. It works good. You have to tune everything and have just the right amounts of everything to see good results. I have posted this many times before.

OH YOU ARE?! :):D

That's exactly what I am working on now. Bought a 4 amp unit off ebay and it's nasty powerful. I'm trying to get a good linear vacuum source from this motor tho so that I can complete the system. Exact same idea I have based on the "water" fuel" cells that you see supposedly producing "Nitrogen Hydroxide" or whatever that is supposed to be. Anyway, dang - guess I need to get my show on the road. Just had the regulator on my alternator die in the worst way last week. Fried my ECU and killed a cell in my battery. :mad:

Oh well. Upgrading to 75/140 amp alternator and already purchased a yellow top Optima battery so things should be hoppin' here pretty soon.

[myoldyourgold]

Stevo the one I am using is only drawing 3.6 amps max making 5 gm/hr. Mine were shipped from china and the little fan I use to give it a little boost only draws a fraction of an amp just prevents it going the wrong way. I have also a much smaller one for small engines. It takes a lot less than you think to make a difference. In large high demand engines I use 2 or more reactors and they come on based on demand and also hold pressure when off so there is no noticeable lag when coming back on. The single reactor system holds pressure also because it is off at idle. Completely different from any other system that I am aware of. The multiple reactor system is not automated electrically yet but that will be my next project. Complex linkage activates it at the present. With your 300 HP this type of system might be of some benefit. You do not need so much HHO at cursing speeds as you know but you can sure use more under hard acceleration and higher rpm especially if you are running an ultra lean retarded system. Fun stuff.

[dixiepc]

When using these ozone generators, how do you introduce the ozone into the system? Would you happen to have any pictures of this setup?

[Stevo]

You really want an existing variable(linear) vacuum source from a venturi line on the engine. If you don't find that, then you are forced to use an electric motor and some sort of pulse width modulation.

myold might have more info on what else could be done.

In the past, people have tapped their distributor caps for this ionized air (which is really just 03 or ozone) and had success. I can't imagine that most setups today would even provide the opportunity to do this. Solid state ignitions and coil-over-plug setups avoid distributor caps.

High voltage (in the thousands) will produce ozone.

[Sodbuster]

Can somebody please explain why you are generating Ozone. I seen what you are talking about Myold on Ebay but just never herd of this done before... or maybe you all just like to have your intakes clean and fresh :) I just throw one of those evergreen trees from auto Zone under the air cleaner..... works for me :)

[dixiepc]

I have a 6.2L diesel. Diesels don't have a whole lot of vacuum. Would the air flow through the breather be enough. This is a totally mechanical engine.

[Stevo]

Nothing to do with cleanliness. Ozone is a much stronger catalyst than oxygen. It is oxygen in the triatomic state - unstable.

[Stevo]

I have a 6.2L diesel. Diesels don't have a whole lot of vacuum. Would the air flow through the breather be enough. This is a totally mechanical engine.

No, ozone is lazy and must be pushed and pulled. It is heavier than oxygen and most certainly will require vacuum or pressure to get it moving.

[Stevo]

One more quick note list:


use silicone instead of black rubber
use polycarbonate instead of polypropylene or polyethylene
make sure the air going into the ozone generator is 100% dry as wet moist air will create nitric acid (bad stuff)

[Stevo]

Video of the ozone generator case I built:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Cs7kawW3EJk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And the front:
http://www.hhoforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2128&stc=1&d=1334965069

[dixiepc]

My breather is the type that is on top of the engine. Do you think that the ozone generator could be mounted under the lid inside the breather with a hole to the outside for the air going into the generator? I'm not really sure how these things work and the images on ebay are not really good. Is there a web site besides ebay where I might could get a better look at them?

Thanks, Monty


P.S. Didn't see your last until I entered my post.

[Stevo]

What engine is it? I know on a 305 carbureted engine you can use the vacuum advance vacuum port. It is a venturi port meaning that the vacuum pulled will be relative to the amount of air being pulled through the carb. That's your best bet. I wouldn't mount anything that isn't welded on the other side of the air filter.

[dixiepc]

It's a 6.2L diesel.

[myoldyourgold]

Here is the complet list of compatibility of materials with Ozone.

http://www.ozoneapplications.com/info/ozone_compatible_materials.htm

I use a similar fan to this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brushless-DC-Cooling-Fan-5-Blade-5V-12V-0-1A-25mm-x25mmx10mm-2510s-2-PIN-/260919629656?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc0059758#ht_1900wt_732

[myoldyourgold]

Steve for rainy days or any high humidity weather you either have to turn it off or build something like this.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/REUSABLE-AIR-DRYER-Ozone-Ozonator-Generator-Drying-Tube-/230660628456?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b471dfe8#ht_5221wt_887

[Stevo]

Nice. I will be sure to add one for good measure.

[myoldyourgold]

Stevo, think ozone, plasma, magnets and HHO all on demand and controlled. You will discover a totally new realm that makes everything else suck!! Be prepared to be amazed. Enjoy

[ultra_efficient]

i know this works because i have done the same and tested it

[Quebecker]

Hi,

In fact, it is ozone or negative ion which improves fuel economy ?
Is it better to buy an ozone generator or a negative ion generator?

Some distinctions

A negative ion is an oxygen atom with an extra electron. It is odorless.
Ozone is an oxygen molecule consisting of three oxygen atoms. You can smell ozone if the concentration is high enough.

Negative ions rid the air of pollen, dust, etc.: stuff you can see under a microscope. Ozone cannot. Negative ions also can improve mood. Ozone cannot do that, either.
Ozone gets rid of odors, pollutants, etc.; stuff at the molecular level (although negative ions can get rid of some odors, too.)

Negative ions have not been found to be harmful even in very high concentrations. Just the opposite has been found the case. In fact, there are patents using high-density negative ions to treat depression.
While ozone in extremely high concentrations is a toxic gas, if the ozone level is properly selected, the ozone and the pollutants/odors in the air CANCEL EACH OTHER. Overlooking this fact is the cause of the ozone controversy we sometimes see. What is more, a little ozone is often far preferable to the toxic gases and pollutants it can eliminate from the air we breathe.


Negative ions production -> unit/cm³ ex.: 300 000 / cm³
Ozone production -> mg/hr ex.: 5000 mg/hr

Regards
Remi

[myoldyourgold]

Remi, both work and some time in the feature I will do some tests to compare them (I have both running) based on power consumption to gain everything else being the same. I am not sure but I think the negative ion will be a little better but needs to be tested. I had a couple of 12V ozone generators when I first started so started with them and then added one negative ion generator that can be switched to positive ions to do some tests but am way behind and so that is in the future sometime.

[Quebecker]

Remi, both work and some time in the feature I will do some tests to compare them (I have both running) based on power consumption to gain everything else being the same. I am not sure but I think the negative ion will be a little better but needs to be tested. I had a couple of 12V ozone generators when I first started so started with them and then added one negative ion generator that can be switched to positive ions to do some tests but am way behind and so that is in the future sometime.

If both work, I think that negative ions are better because no mention of the requirement to use 100% of air dry

For negative ions, do you know how much Ion output (/cm³ ) for motor 2 liters and less like my civic ?

I found this Ions Generator
http://www.heavenfresh.ca/Silent-Ionic-Air-Purifier-HF-100

Rated voltage = DC 12V-16V
Power consumption = 3.4W
Ion output = MAX 500,000/cm³
Active oxygen output = 5 mg/hr or (.015-.04)ppm for spaces (100-500)sq ft