Problem with heat?

[LinChiek]

if u r getting problem that ur HHO generator heats, u can use ballast resistor prior to ur HHO generator...

http://www.hot-spark.com/Hot-Spark%20Ballast%20Resistor.jpg

http://www.hot-spark.com/HS13BR.htm

[LinChiek]

actually this method is being used by someone from malaysia. he doesn't use a PWM controller... from what he said/told me, his generator doesn't heat up. :D

hope this info is useful... i would be happy to hear comments from u guys also! cheers! :D

[HYDROTEKPRO]

Interesting simplicity! :D Thank you for the info!

[Q-Hack!]

A resistor in line would drop the voltage, thus should reduce the heat buildup... Not sure how it be for production level though.

[LinChiek]

Interesting simplicity! :D Thank you for the info!
u r welcome! ;)

[LinChiek]

A resistor in line would drop the voltage, thus should reduce the heat buildup... Not sure how it be for production level though.
here's the function of ballast resistor

Sci-Tech Encyclopedia: Ballast resistor

A resistor that has the property of increasing in resistance as current flowing through it increases, and decreasing in resistance as current decreases. Therefore the ballast resistor tends to maintain a constant current flowing through it, despite variations in applied voltage or changes in the rest of the circuit. See also Resistor.

The ballast action is obtained by using resistive material that increases in resistance as temperature increases. Any increase in current then causes an increase in temperature, which results in an increase in resistance and reduces the current. Ballast resistors may be wire-wound resistors. Other types, also called ballast tubes, are usually mounted in an evacuated envelope to reduce heat radiation.

Ballast resistors have been used to compensate for variations in line voltage, as in some automotive ignition systems, or to compensate for negative volt-ampere characteristics of other devices, such as fluorescent lamps and other vapor lamps.

http://www.answers.com/topic/ballast-resistor

[Q-Hack!]

here's the function of ballast resistor

Sci-Tech Encyclopedia: Ballast resistor

A resistor that has the property of increasing in resistance as current flowing through it increases, and decreasing in resistance as current decreases. Therefore the ballast resistor tends to maintain a constant current flowing through it, despite variations in applied voltage or changes in the rest of the circuit. See also Resistor.

http://www.answers.com/topic/ballast-resistor

Oh! its a Barretter. Now I understand. Yes, this might actually be a good safety device for preventing thermal overrun while maintaining a constant gas flow. Now I am kicking myself for not thinking about these earlier. I am off to the store... I must experiment!

[LinChiek]

Oh! its a Barretter. Now I understand. Yes, this might actually be a good safety device for preventing thermal overrun while maintaining a constant gas flow. Now I am kicking myself for not thinking about these earlier. I am off to the store... I must experiment!
hope 2 read ur feedback later.....! :D

[liberybell]

How are Barretters measure?
The one on your link points to a 1.3 ohms. I am assuming they are measure by the maximum resistance that they can provide.
The question is what barretter should we use for our system?
I am glad though you brought this forward. Dealing with electronics (even though I am a computer engineer) is not my favorite thing to do. I hate mixing mechanics with electronics. Barretters should simplify our systems and make the system more durable.
Thanks for providing this info.

[Atechguy]

I tried the ballast resistor because i keep blowing 30 amp fuses , it got so hot to touch after a several minutes , i took it off because i didn't know if it was it was right size it is 12v 1.2 ohms , my new analogue amp meter wouldn't work , oh well more set backs, how hot is the ballast going to get,?:eek:Its designed to drop 1/2 an amp on an ignition circuit, maybe it has to be mounted like to firewall as a heatsink??:p

[EltonBrandd]

I tried the ballast resistor because i keep blowing 30 amp fuses , it got so hot to touch after a several minutes , i took it off because i didn't know if it was it was right size it is 12v 1.2 ohms , my new analogue amp meter wouldn't work , oh well more set backs, how hot is the ballast going to get,?:eek:Its designed to drop 1/2 an amp on an ignition circuit, maybe it has to be mounted like to firewall as a heatsink??:p

Most ballast resistors I've seen on car are mounted in front of the radiator. Most likely for a reason.

[Atechguy]

Okay never seen that on front rad, my question is how many amps is this going to drop across 20 amps or 30??

[HYDROTEKPRO]

Thank you again to LinChiek for this information, which gives us a simple solution for a simple problem, as it should always be.

Here are some quick test results for two ballast resistors we just got!:D

Relatively strong electrolyte, probably between 1% and 5% KOH. Non-insulated series cell design electrolyzer test unit, which normally draws 20 to 21 amps right off the bat (measured with EXTECH Clamp Meter), in open bath, on bench, connected to battery with car running.

1.6 OHM ballast resistor limited current to about 4.7 amps, HHO production was proportionately down as well.

0.8 OHM ballast resistor limited current to about 7.4 amps, HHO production was proportionately down as well, but proportionately up over 1.6 OHM unit.

In both cases amperage never varied more than 0.05 amps. Each test ran 60 seconds only. Each time, each ballast resistor became very, very warm.

So a 1.6 OHM ballast resistor will limit you to about 4.7 amps, and a 0.8 OHM ballast resistor will limit you to about 7.4 amps. With the above data a formula can be derived to determine the corresponding OHM rating for a ballast resistor, for the amperage rating/limit you want for an electrolyzer, provided that OMH rating ballast resistor is available.

Each ballast resistor has a metal (probably steel) wrap around the center, with a drilled mounting flap, for easy attachment to a vehicle's firewall, which is recommended to aid heat dissipation.

Yes they work. Get the right OHM rating for the amperage you want. Make sure they're properly mounted in such a way so they can shed their heat as quickly and efficiently as possible.

[mclaing]

I think you can find those resistors in junked cars.
I used a PWM, till it died, but till it did I noticed that if your cell isn't getting as much juice, it's not going to produce the same amount either. So realising this I just run my cells in series. They don't get hot nearly as quickly, similar to using a PWM (www.qkits.com - $29 30A). I still wanted the volume, so I changed my configuration to accomodate a thermiresistor (SP.RS-9700 250V5A 80*C) inside one cell connected to the driving relay, so when the thermiresistor disengages it kills the relay, of which cell no 2 is connected to the NC terminals. 20Mins later the thermiresistor kicks in again. It works great, just need more than one cell. I used spiral wound SS springs 1" x 1/4 married together, they are the size of a quarter, but pruduce almost 1L/m. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHogtWvtJpo
Has anyone tried AC? I'm looking at a coupla neon sign transformers....

[Smith03Jetta]

So tell me if my assumption is right. Instead of using more energy in your cell to make more gas you are wasting it in the form of HEAT at the ballast resistor?

It looks like you have a net ZERO benefit as far as the battery or alternator is concerned. You have a reduction in HHO production. It looks like a ballast resistor is not doing anything good for your system unless your cell will malfunction if it draws too many amps. The ballast resistor is really only a protector to keep a circuit from running away and damaging the electrical device. It wastes energy but keeps you from damaging your electrical device.

[HYDROTEKPRO]

[QUOTE=Smith03Jetta;7627]...The ballast resistor is really only a protector to keep a circuit from running away and damaging the electrical device....QUOTE]

Yep! It regulates the current draw from the vehicle's electrical system.

For electrolyzers that have an issue with thermal run-away, it's a great, simple solution. Just gotta make sure you get the right OHM rating for the amperage threshold you want!

[Q-Hack!]

I have to agree with Smith here. At first I thought it would be a good idea, but now that I have been playing with them, I am not so sure. I would really like to see about 20 amps at my generator and the Barretter that I have (1.2 ohm) just cuts the power way too much. It does keep the cell from thermal runaway, but at the expense of a much reduced HHO production.

[Atechguy]

If you put the ballast in parallel with the circuit it will draw less current , but give a little protection , i have been blowing 30 amp fuses and may have to go to straight distilled water, sometimes it may go for a couple of hrs.

[HYDROTEKPRO]

I have to agree with Smith here. At first I thought it would be a good idea, but now that I have been playing with them, I am not so sure. I would really like to see about 20 amps at my generator and the Barretter that I have (1.2 ohm) just cuts the power way too much. It does keep the cell from thermal runaway, but at the expense of a much reduced HHO production.

So just get the correct OHM rating ballast resistor for the amps you want. You want 20 amps, so what OHM rating would that be? Wouldn't that be in the 0.4 OHM to 0.2 OHM neighborhood?

[Q-Hack!]

So just get the correct OHM rating ballast resistor for the amps you want. You want 20 amps, so what OHM rating would that be? Wouldn't that be in the 0.4 OHM to 0.2 OHM neighborhood?

That sounds about right... mind you I have never seen anything less than about .8 ohms for sale.

[LinChiek]

Thank you again to LinChiek for this information, which gives us a simple solution for a simple problem, as it should always be.

Here are some quick test results for two ballast resistors we just got!:D

Relatively strong electrolyte, probably between 5% and 10% KOH. Non-insulated series cell design electrolyzer test unit, which normally draws 20 to 21 amps right off the bat (measured with EXTECH Clamp Meter), in open bath, on bench, connected to battery with car running.

1.6 OHM ballast resistor limited current to about 4.7 amps, HHO production was proportionately down as well.

0.8 OHM ballast resistor limited current to about 7.4 amps, HHO production was proportionately down as well, but proportionately up over 1.6 OHM unit.

In both cases amperage never varied more than 0.05 amps. Each test ran 60 seconds only. Each time, each ballast resistor became very, very warm.

So a 1.6 OHM ballast resistor will limit you to about 4.7 amps, and a 0.8 OHM ballast resistor will limit you to about 7.4 amps. With the above data a formula can be derived to determine the corresponding OHM rating for a ballast resistor, for the amperage rating/limit you want for an electrolyzer, provided that OMH rating ballast resistor is available.

Each ballast resistor has a metal (probably steel) wrap around the center, with a drilled mounting flap, for easy attachment to a vehicle's firewall, which is recommended to aid heat dissipation.

Yes they work. Get the right OHM rating for the amperage you want. Make sure they're properly mounted in such a way so they can shed their heat as quickly and efficiently as possible.
need not to thank me.... i'm just sharing information from my fellow malaysian...! :):):)

[LinChiek]

So tell me if my assumption is right. Instead of using more energy in your cell to make more gas you are wasting it in the form of HEAT at the ballast resistor?

It looks like you have a net ZERO benefit as far as the battery or alternator is concerned. You have a reduction in HHO production. It looks like a ballast resistor is not doing anything good for your system unless your cell will malfunction if it draws too many amps. The ballast resistor is really only a protector to keep a circuit from running away and damaging the electrical device. It wastes energy but keeps you from damaging your electrical device.
if i'm not mistaken, once the temp of ballast resistor increase, the current flow is reduce, right?! :confused:

[Jaxom]

That sounds about right... mind you I have never seen anything less than about .8 ohms for sale.

That's not too much of an issue. Put two of the .8ohm in parallel and you get the same effect as a .4ohm. 4 in parallel will give you .2ohm. Using more than one should also help with heat dissipation.

This sounds to me like a good solution for thermal runaway protection, although I wouldn't use it as the primary current control device. As Smith said, it'll waste energy in the form of heat and hurt the overall efficiency of the generator.

[bigapple]

ok so im gunna bring this one back up to the top cuz i still dont get it... if u resist current, temperature will decrease which is a plus... but, if current decreases, so will production rite? this would be a good idea but i dont see how it wouldnt prevent ur cell from not producing as much... is it because each cell only requires a little bit of voltage and current to produce?

[apwutcook]

good stuff - this is why I came here. I appreciate you guys and you input. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

[1973dodger]

Hydrotechpro,

Did you check the amps before and after ballast resistor? I'm just curious as to how much current was lost to heat. If anyone else has taken reading regarding this topic, feel free to reply. Am I to understand the amperage stays the same 4 to 7 amps respectively, regardless of what amperage a particular cell used before the ballast resistor?

1973dodger