simple...whats the best kit available?

[Iceguy4]

WOW...my head is spinning. I have read so many posts (even richards) I have actually purchased a unit from safehho.com but can stop it as it hasent been shipped.
has anyone had luck with this unit and his "pure HHO" or a is it yet another scam.
I just want to purchase a good kit for my 99 tacoma,2.7L auto that has never been better then 20 mpg.
thanks in advance for your time
Ice:confused:

[simonwins]

I have exactly the same dilema.. Maybe you can give a list of the top 5 brands? Or give a certain criteria on how to pick a good hho manufacturer.. I live in the Philippines.. The only option available for me is to purchase on from the internet.

[BioFarmer93]

WOW...my head is spinning. I have read so many posts (even richards) I have actually purchased a unit from safehho.com but can stop it as it hasent been shipped.
has anyone had luck with this unit and his "pure HHO" or a is it yet another scam.
I just want to purchase a good kit for my 99 tacoma,2.7L auto that has never been better then 20 mpg.
thanks in advance for your time
Ice:confused:

Simple answer-
That is a radically subjective question and ANY answer you get is going to be someones firmly held and sworn by-.............. wait for it......................

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opinion...

Only because no scientific comparison study has been (or will be) done. I looked through the site you are ordering from and saw some truths, some half truths sauteed in a creamy omission sauce and some outright B-S, Pretty much par for the course. The plates are great and that method of manufacture is a standard for the oil and gas industry- which has lots of spare fuel to run the generators that make the massive amounts of electricity needed to overcome the extremely high resistance of these type of plates. You probably noticed the multiple times it was mentioned that their unit used fewer plates, you probably also noticed their kit includes a pump and radiator. The reason for that is when you run fewer plates, the voltage between the plates is higher which heats the electrolyte. At 3000% more expensive than stainless yet keeping their kit competitive with others, I honestly would not be surprised if the reactor only had two or three plates TOTAL. Perhaps you saw some place in their web site where they actually said how many plates their units have- I didn't, and I looked for it. Their units pump massive amounts of steam- it's unavoidable given that from a cost & electrical resistance standpoint they can not afford to build a reactor that is competitively priced and will run coolly on automotive voltage and amperage.
The scare tactic B-S about KOH and NaOH presumes you're an idiot and won't run a bubbler with a reactor that's made from stainless- You CAN'T run either of those electrolytes with their unit because the radiator they supply is made from aluminum. I could go on but frankly I want to look at something else now. If you really want an earth friendly unit, go to HHOConnection and talk to Mike and see if he will sell you everything except the plates, then talk to a water jet or laser cutter and have 19 plates made up of .04" Nickel200, then get them media blasted. You will NOT need a PWM for this unit, you will not need to condition the plates (they're nickel) nor will you need a pump, radiator, or super duper special electrolyte. You will need a bubbler though.:cool:

[simonwins]

I found this the other day.. www.evolutionhho.com - Please share your thoughts.

[Sodbuster]

Ice/Simon: I am also brand new to HHO so it is hard for me to give advise on something I am not familiar with, however I do understand the principle and how to get were I need to be. I have not built a dry cell but i have experimented with the wet cell bomb = don't even go there. There are many good builders out there that build dry cells but few will stand behind what they sell ... most of them are Ebay sellers selling back yard/shade tree junk. Now this is only my 2 cents for what it is worth when you purchase your cell I would make sure they have been around for awhile and have several years under there belt building dry cells, there is so much science and math that goes into it.... just make sure there reputation is there.
I'm running a www.greenfuelh20.com 38 plate dry cell right now and www.hhoconnection.com is also a team player with greenfuel and they both are outstanding with there FAQ and are members and frequent this forum. You can watch all there videos via there Webb sights and compare them with other builders, I think after you do so you will see the light :)

[Darrell]

Simon, the link you posted show a desent cell for durobility If you buy one of those I would make Mod's to the plate like sandblasting and change were the inlet holes are located. Or you could just build your own that would be even better than you can currently buy on the market today. "D"

[Iceguy4]

Ice/Simon: I am also brand new to HHO so it is hard for me to give advise on something I am not familiar with, however I do understand the principle and how to get were I need to be. I have not built a dry cell but i have experimented with the wet cell bomb = don't even go there. There are many good builders out there that build dry cells but few will stand behind what they sell ... most of them are Ebay sellers selling back yard/shade tree junk. Now this is only my 2 cents for what it is worth when you purchase your cell I would make sure they have been around for awhile and have several years under there belt building dry cells, there is so much science and math that goes into it.... just make sure there reputation is there.
I'm running a www.greenfuelh20.com 38 plate dry cell right now and www.hhoconnection.com is also a team player with greenfuel and they both are outstanding with there FAQ and are members and frequent this forum. You can watch all there videos via there Webb sights and compare them with other builders, I think after you do so you will see the light :)

So you run the 38 plate cell? that one looks like it is for a semi truck?? do you run a big cell at a lower amp ? this is kinda what I'm thinking...run a big cell ...like a cell rated at a much higher LPM then required and use less power to drive it ...

[Iceguy4]

Simple answer-
That is a radically subjective question and ANY answer you get is going to be someones firmly held and sworn by-.............. wait for it......................

.................................................. .

............................................

................................

...................

opinion...

Only because no scientific comparison study has been (or will be) done. I looked through the site you are ordering from and saw some truths, some half truths sauteed in a creamy omission sauce and some outright B-S, Pretty much par for the course. The plates are great and that method of manufacture is a standard for the oil and gas industry- which has lots of spare fuel to run the generators that make the massive amounts of electricity needed to overcome the extremely high resistance of these type of plates. You probably noticed the multiple times it was mentioned that their unit used fewer plates, you probably also noticed their kit includes a pump and radiator. The reason for that is when you run fewer plates, the voltage between the plates is higher which heats the electrolyte. At 3000% more expensive than stainless yet keeping their kit competitive with others, I honestly would not be surprised if the reactor only had two or three plates TOTAL. Perhaps you saw some place in their web site where they actually said how many plates their units have- I didn't, and I looked for it. Their units pump massive amounts of steam- it's unavoidable given that from a cost & electrical resistance standpoint they can not afford to build a reactor that is competitively priced and will run coolly on automotive voltage and amperage.
The scare tactic B-S about KOH and NaOH presumes you're an idiot and won't run a bubbler with a reactor that's made from stainless- You CAN'T run either of those electrolytes with their unit because the radiator they supply is made from aluminum. I could go on but frankly I want to look at something else now. If you really want an earth friendly unit, go to HHOConnection and talk to Mike and see if he will sell you everything except the plates, then talk to a water jet or laser cutter and have 19 plates made up of .04" Nickel200, then get them media blasted. You will NOT need a PWM for this unit, you will not need to condition the plates (they're nickel) nor will you need a pump, radiator, or super duper special electrolyte. You will need a bubbler though.:cool:

Biofarmer,
Opinion? yes and no. If you have found a product that works nicely, geez pass it on.Like Those cells from greenfield look good.
You say" I looked through the site you are ordering from and saw some truths, some half truths sauteed in a creamy omission sauce and some outright B-S, Pretty much par for the course".. could you elaborate?

[myoldyourgold]

Iceguy4, We are not here to run down retailers that stretch the truth and most of them do. Major companies do that too so there is nothing new there. The fact is there in no product that I have read about that is being sold yet that does everything that has been proven to work in one unit. I doubt the public would buy it anyway because it will cost more. You get what you pay for but in some cases in this market you can really get screwed with a lot of hype. I think the best choice is to find someone who will give you good service and is confident and knowledgeable about their product and the vehicle it is going to go on. If they have no experience with your vehicle then the chances of you getting good help is slim to none. This is a technology that is still improving/changing and as new discoveries and products come into the market place it takes time for retailers to get up to speed and some never do. If you spend a little time and read (I admit it is a lot) what is on this forum you will be equipped to tell BS from fact. It is all here so go for it and then you will be satisfied that you made the right decision or at least the best one possible. Good Luck

[Iceguy4]

[QUOTE=myoldyourgold;49902]Iceguy4, We are not here to run down retailers that stretch the truth and most of them do. Major companies do that too so there is nothing new there. The fact is there in no product that I have read about that is being sold yet that does everything that has been proven to work in one unit. I doubt the public would buy it anyway because it will cost more. You get what you pay for but in some cases in this market you can really get screwed with a lot of hype. I think the best choice is to find someone who will give you good service and is confident and knowledgeable about their product and the vehicle it is going to go on. If they have no experience with your vehicle then the chances of you getting good help is slim to none. This is a technology that is still improving/changing and as new discoveries and products come into the market place it takes time for retailers to get up to speed and some never do. If you spend a little time and read (I admit it is a lot) what is on this forum you will be equipped to tell BS from fact. It is all here so go for it and then you will be satisfied that you made the right decision or at least the best one possible. Good Luck[UOTE]
\

MyOldYourGold,
I 'm not askin anyone to run down anyone. I think your mistaken what I'm asking too. I plan to use this controller (E-bay #280746618968 and hisCC PWM) as they were reccomended. What I want a decent cell and system.
AS for reading the forums here...well I have been pounding them. My wife wants to leave me!LOL MR smith...good read...richard...bad read. In spite of what I have read here I still have faith that HHO works.:confused:
I'm thinking its between gfx1 19 from greenfield orgfx1 19from HHO connection...looks like the same cell huh?:confused:

[iger13]

WOW...my head is spinning. I have read so many posts (even richards) I have actually purchased a unit from safehho.com but can stop it as it hasent been shipped.
has anyone had luck with this unit and his "pure HHO" or a is it yet another scam.
I just want to purchase a good kit for my 99 tacoma,2.7L auto that has never been better then 20 mpg.
thanks in advance for your time
Ice:confused:

I'm not going to be "politically correct", like most members here. And the reason is very simple: some time ago I bought units from this HHO "specialist" safehho.com , one for car one for truck. $2500 later, all this garbage collecting dust in the basement. Some parts I send back for replacement, year later I still waiting for this parts. You can spend much less money for something better or just build by your self and enjoy savings.Good luck.

[BioFarmer93]

Biofarmer,
Opinion? yes and no. If you have found a product that works nicely, geez pass it on.Like Those cells from greenfield look good.
You say" I looked through the site you are ordering from and saw some truths, some half truths sauteed in a creamy omission sauce and some outright B-S, Pretty much par for the course".. could you elaborate?

That was a lot of typing and I type slow, so I won't elaborate other than to say that they are basing their marketing on the presumption that all ss reactors will be over driven and produce Cr6 and that all people are incompetent to handle caustics. I can't recommend products because I have no first hand experience with them, I build my own stuff...

[Iceguy4]

I'm not going to be "politically correct", like most members here. And the reason is very simple: some time ago I bought units from this HHO "specialist" safehho.com , one for car one for truck. $2500 later, all this garbage collecting dust in the basement. Some parts I send back for replacement, year later I still waiting for this parts. You can spend much less money for something better or just build by your self and enjoy savings.Good luck.

Thank you very much. I cancelled my order and put a stop on the cc payment. What problems did you have(my guess ..low output) and have you made another unit work or have you given up?This is what forums are for...to keep on top of whats going on. I'm starting to see the problems with sellers....I hate people who exaggerate...it makes my 14" of manhood hurt like hell!!!:eek:I watched a video of a test of the 31 plate cell...on video ...1 LPM.....they both advertize it @ 4+ LPM. crazy:mad: I still havent made up my mind what direction I' m going...I have a 1999 toyota tacoma that gets 20mpg on a good day....is this too big a cell for me? Anyone else work with the 2.7L tacoma??

[iger13]

My suggestion (it is what at list I do)-build unit yourself. There is allot of people claiming they know everything and what they sell is the best on the market. ALL B...S.
Even most knowledgeable members, I seen so far, like Bio and Myold, admitting that in field of HHO we still need to learn allot to be able to use what mother nature gave us.
There is allot of good info on this forum. Enjoy reading and knowledge you can get here. If you going to buy, it will help you allot and if you going to build yourself, it will help you even more. Check this post by Bio http://www.hhoforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1719&d=1300660896 .Very nice design and allot of experience he put in this unit. This is my 2c.

[Iceguy4]

My suggestion (it is what at list I do)-build unit yourself. There is allot of people claiming they know everything and what they sell is the best on the market. ALL B...S.
Even most knowledgeable members, I seen so far, like Bio and Myold, admitting that in field of HHO we still need to learn allot to be able to use what mother nature gave us.
There is allot of good info on this forum. Enjoy reading and knowledge you can get here. If you going to buy, it will help you allot and if you going to build yourself, it will help you even more. Check this post by Bio http://www.hhoforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1719&d=1300660896 .Very nice design and allot of experience he put in this unit. This is my 2c.
...thoughts?
Thanks ...time is a factor for me now.. my spring and summer affords little time to "tinker" For my first unit I will have to purchase or wait. actually I NEED proof of concept. I kinda like from the "show me state"

[Havens78]

..time is a factor for me now.. my spring and summer affords little time to "tinker" For my first unit I will have to purchase or wait.

If you are going to purchase i would advise to buy a bigger unit than is recommended for your 2.7 tacoma and run it at lower than recommended power. You'll be needed to make at least 1.35 liters per minute of gas minus the moisture that a lot of kits create. The lower the temp of the water in the system the less moisture you'll create. But the real application is to 'tinker' with your tacoma and get the sensors talking good about your new gas that you will be adding to the engine. Its just not a plug and play application like the sellers on EBAY want you to believe.

just my 2 cents.

[myoldyourgold]

Lets say you get the best reactor that is available and you follow there instructions and you end up with no gain or a very little one. Is it a bad reactor? Did you do something wrong? Can and will the seller help solve this problem? How much gain does the seller claim you will get if any? Does the seller carry product liability insurance? What does lifetime warranty really mean? Has the reactor been conditioned before you get it? Why do you need to condition a reactor? Are the instructions easy to follow? Does the seller have a street address? There are many more questions you need to either ask of yourself or the seller. Unless you just have $300 or more to throw away you had better get as many questions as you can answered before you buy. There is a bigger list regarding how the reactor is made, electrolyte, bubbler, where to inject, electronics, etc. This is a complex field and if you do not know the answers just leaves you open to spend large amounts of money and end up with no gains and then claim that this is all a hoax. You will be surprised at the number of people that end up like that.

[iger13]

end up with no gains and then claim that this is all a hoax. You will be surprised at the number of people that end up like that.

...and blaming HHO in all problems instead of blaming people's laziness and stupidity

[Sodbuster]

...thoughts?
Thanks ...time is a factor for me now.. my spring and summer affords little time to "tinker" For my first unit I will have to purchase or wait. actually I NEED proof of concept. I kinda like from the "show me state"

Yes Sir..... Show me State :)

No hype treat folks like I like to be treated.

38 plate cell (GreenFuelH2o)/(HHO Connection)+ whats in my sig = doubled my milage... Fact.

However I started out with a pick up ( 98 Chevy 5.7 Vortec) that only got 11 miles to the gallon going down hill, but some of that was do to being stuck in open loop running E85 on a none flex vehicle, take it for what it is worth.

That and I pay no attention to the no sayer`s :)

[Iceguy4]

Lets say you get the best reactor that is available and you follow there instructions and you end up with no gain or a very little one. Is it a bad reactor? Did you do something wrong? Can and will the seller help solve this problem? How much gain does the seller claim you will get if any? Does the seller carry product liability insurance? What does lifetime warranty really mean? Has the reactor been conditioned before you get it? Why do you need to condition a reactor? Are the instructions easy to follow? Does the seller have a street address? There are many more questions you need to either ask of yourself or the seller. Unless you just have $300 or more to throw away you had better get as many questions as you can answered before you buy. There is a bigger list regarding how the reactor is made, electrolyte, bubbler, where to inject, electronics, etc. This is a complex field and if you do not know the answers just leaves you open to spend large amounts of money and end up with no gains and then claim that this is all a hoax. You will be surprised at the number of people that end up like that.
I am so aware that it will take more then bolting on a reactor. I think there are some things that are constant...or close...you need around .5 LPM per Liter of displacement. (starting point for a gas engine) . if your engine is computer controlled you will need make adjustments.

[BioFarmer93]

...thoughts?
Thanks ...time is a factor for me now.. my spring and summer affords little time to "tinker" For my first unit I will have to purchase or wait. actually I NEED proof of concept. I kinda like from the "show me state"

Exactly what concept do you think needs to be proved? Not trying to bust your beans here Ice, but I'm afraid you're going to have to be specific.. You need just a hair over 1 lpm for your engine and darn near anybody's reactor will do that much. Electronics? There is a member here, HHOElectronics, that has done just about a miracle in that area- check these out and PM him, he'll be able to dial you in on exactly what you need for your year/model-- http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=7522

Other than this I don't know what you need to hear- nothing in this arena offers guarantees and nothing is plug-n-play. The 19 plate reactor kit from HHOConnection.com is a good place to start- just toss out 3 of the neutral plates and one of the power plates and get all the rest media blasted and you're good to go with a [-nnnnnn+nnnnnn-] (2 stack, 6 neutral) reactor that won't need a PWM and will make all the HHO you need.:cool:

[simonwins]

Simon, the link you posted show a desent cell for durobility If you buy one of those I would make Mod's to the plate like sandblasting and change were the inlet holes are located. Or you could just build your own that would be even better than you can currently buy on the market today. "D"


Thank you for the advice darrel.. How long have you been building cells? Do you have current installs?