HHO in carburretor Vehicles

[sabretooth]

Hi All!

I am new to this forum but doing business of selling these kits through our online store for quite some time. I was wondering what shall be the suitable place to inject HHO in carburrettor as Hydrogen is lighter than air and may escape if not installed properly. I am waiting for some sincere advises here. Usually the vehicles involved are Suzuki and old Toyotas.
Also
what if we change the fuel jets or just lean the mixture from the knob behind the carburretor to improve gains achieved after injecting HHO units.

Regards

Sabre

[koya1893]

Hi All!

I am new to this forum but doing business of selling these kits through our online store for quite some time. I was wondering what shall be the suitable place to inject HHO in carburrettor as Hydrogen is lighter than air and may escape if not installed properly. I am waiting for some sincere advises here. Usually the vehicles involved are Suzuki and old Toyotas.
Also
what if we change the fuel jets or just lean the mixture from the knob behind the carburretor to improve gains achieved after injecting HHO units.

Regards

Sabre

You are selling HOD kits but don't have any idea how to install them to assist your buyer so they can benefit from them. MAAAAAANNN you need to get a hold of yourself. Carbs suck in air, why not find the means to pipe the gas close enough so when the engine start to suck in air it will also ingest the gas.

Oh by the way, you need to re-think the amount of gas per the engine displacement, "Less is more" from the new data.

[Sodbuster]

Howdy sabretooth,

Im not the sharpest tool in the shed but I am a tool :)

I am also brand new to this HHO technology and right in the middle of bench testing my unit dilling it in. However I have lots of back ground with carbs and jetting/timing and some EFI mapping and such, but I am also always learning something new every day.

There are folks on this forum from what I have read that can answer just about anything you need to no and I'm sure they will chime in.

Jetting is all trial and many many errors, "jetting" depending on witch carb you have ....purchase as many small jets as you can afford and buy a good machinists drill index and a mic. Start out as small as possible to were your vehicle will barley run at all ....than start your experimenting, drill 00.2 at a time and work your way up. This is were the HHO guys will shine and LPM will play a huge part all the way through your power band and you also must pay very close attention to lean conditions and how to compensate for it.

Also pump gas and octane will also be a player, personally I cant stand pump gas and run alcohol when it is available in the form of E*85 and if you so decide running Alcohol than you throw everything you learned about pump gas and jetting right out the window. So for now unless you have played with alcohol stick with jetting with pump gas and than once you are dilled in than you can make the switch if you chose to do so..... best of luck to yea :)

[myoldyourgold]

If you do not know what you are doing leaning a carburetor can be a challenge. There are a number of different types to deal with. Some are even computer controlled with an O2 sensor. I found on some by simply lowering the float level by a tiny amount got it lean enough for the amount of HHO I was injecting. The main problem with carburetors is that once you have it set you have to always run HHO. In electronic fuel injection you can just flip a switch and things can be back to stock. A carburetor will require you disassembling the carburetor and replacing parts to get back to stock. Not something you would want to do on the side of the road, if the HHO system failed on a trip.

[BioFarmer93]

Hi All!

I am new to this forum but doing business of selling these kits through our online store for quite some time. I was wondering what shall be the suitable place to inject HHO in carburrettor as Hydrogen is lighter than air and may escape if not installed properly. I am waiting for some sincere advises here. Usually the vehicles involved are Suzuki and old Toyotas.
Also
what if we change the fuel jets or just lean the mixture from the knob behind the carburretor to improve gains achieved after injecting HHO units.

Regards

Sabre

Sabre,
A small hole drilled in the air filter housing into which can be threaded a plastic hose barb fitting will work just fine. Preferably this hole should be on the dirty air side so that the air filter will catch any electrolyte mist that has not been cleaned from the HHO by the bubbler.

The HHO reactor should only be operational when the engine is running, and should be turned off about 2 minutes before the engine is turned off. This insures among other important things, that the HHO will be sucked into the engine and not fall into the sky.

If there is an adjustment on the carb for leaning and richening the mixture, then do so slowly, minimaly and with the assistance of the engine's specifications, tolerances and a method to measure exhaust gas temperatures. HHO supplemetation at the proper amount enables leaning the mixture somewhat while avoiding detonation. This can be extended farther by the addition of water mist injection. Personaly, I wouldn't re-jet unless a mixture adjustment screw or knob was not available. In that case I would follow user Sodbusters advice to you. The decimal point in the drill size increments Sodbuster told you about was accidentaly put in the wrong location- it should be .002", not 00.2".

Good luck, and keep your head down..

[Sodbuster]

Yes sir .002 my mistake this is what happens posting first thing in the am with very little coffee :)

[BioFarmer93]

Yes sir .002 my mistake this is what happens posting first thing in the am with very little coffee :)

Coffee- one of THE most important chemicals for proper brain function- when they do my autopsy, I'm almost positive my brain will be stained brown and smell like Maxwell House..;):D

[danntanna]

Hi just finished installing my generator in my 72/56 willys truck.It's a 56 willys truck body on the frame of a 72 chev pu.I have kept the drive train from the 72 for convienence sake.So I have a carburated stait six cylinder.There are three metering systems within this carb.Idle,accelerator pump and the main jet.Not sure but think I may have to play with all three.I plan on filling the accelerator hole with jb weld and then making the passage smaller by fileing.The main jet inside I will fill also then drill a smaller hole or maybe I can get away with bending the metering rod down a bit not sure yet.These two things can be done with the carb on the truck but you do have to remove the top of the carb.The idle air mixture is on the outside so it's the eisiest.Anyway havn't had time to play with it yet but soon.I will keep you posted.Also I am introducing the hho at the base of the carb through a vacume port.Seems to work well.

[myoldyourgold]

Metering rods are made for some carbs with different tapers/sizes, but maybe not yours. Usually they are made to go the opposite way than we want to. I have in the past put the rod in a drill and used some fine sand paper to change both the tapper and the size. Some of the metering rods are adjustable so you can move them up or down. Like you said you have to take the top off to do any of this. Idle is the easiest for sure but unless you are injecting a lot of HHO does not take much if any difference.

[sabretooth]

@koya 1893
Thanks for the help and sarcasm , i appreciate it . we have converted almost 40 cars uptill now and carburretors are obsolete here in pk and thats why i asked the people here rather than experimenting with customers vehicles.

[sabretooth]

@sodbuster
well we are thinking "not to open up the carbs" cause it takes a lot of time, thanks for the info though

[sabretooth]

@myoldyourgold
hmm, that makes sense. let us try on a car and will let you people know as well.

[sabretooth]

@biofarmer 93
thanks a lot, your reply almost answers all my questions .

[sabretooth]

video of a 3SFE running on HHO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBbHBbZruYI

[BioFarmer93]

@biofarmer 93
thanks a lot, your reply almost answers all my questions .

Sabre,
I've gone back and re-read your questions several times now to see if I missed anything. The only questions of yours that I almost answered must just be the ones you almost asked...;):D

[myoldyourgold]

Anyone who is really serious about running there 4 or 6 cylinder vehicle that has a carburetor here is what I use and found it the simplest solution but not the cheapest. I swap out the carb for a Mikuni Super BN. These are down draft carburetors and are very easy to work on and many sizes of jets are available. The high speed air adjusting screw gives you the ability to get these dialed in with very little trouble. I have one on a Chrysler slant 6 and another one on a pinto 4 banger engine. Both are in farm equipment running extremely lean mixtures now for a couple of year with no problems. The savings of fuel with these two engines are through the roof. For larger displacement engines you might need two carbs to get enough A/F in. Here is a PDF on this carburetor.

http://www.mikuni.com/pdf/sbn_manual.pdf

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g215/yenom_1945/Mikuni.jpg

[aceras624]

hey Sabre evr take apart the inlet after where the HHO goes in? id assume you have plenty of electrolyte INSIDE :/ unless the video doesnt show what youre using to stop the electrolyte from splashing into the intake hose?

[sabretooth]

hey Sabre evr take apart the inlet after where the HHO goes in? id assume you have plenty of electrolyte INSIDE :/ unless the video doesnt show what youre using to stop the electrolyte from splashing into the intake hose?

that's a very well point highlighted by you, what we usually do is cut a PVC pipe according to the space available, it can be anything from 3inches to 10 inches (just like a dynamite charge cartridge) then we put end caps on either sides and drill a hole and put nozzles on them for gas in through reservoir and gas out to inlet. It is placed in a way that in-case some water is sucked in , it never makes its way to the inlet and when you turn off the engine the water in vaporizer goes back to the reservoir. Also we give a loop to the inlet pipe below the engine inlet so that water bubbles can remain in the loop rather than being sucked in.
Also i have another solution that is a paper based Fuel filter (common in older vehicles) it is transparent and it is placed below the air inlet so gravity doesn't play its part and the water is never sucked in. the solution cost almost $1 dollar and we have found it to be perfect. It works as an extra safety as well.

I am attaching pictures for reference
Some pictures are of installation and some are of vaporizer.

[sabretooth]

having upload problems, i think its tricky to post pictures here.

[sabretooth]

Sabre,
I've gone back and re-read your questions several times now to see if I missed anything. The only questions of yours that I almost answered must just be the ones you almost asked...;):D

lol, and thanks again

[hhoconnection]

I noticed in your video that you are not using a bubbler or dryer. You are going to cause engine damage with all those vapors going directly into your engine!

[sabretooth]

I noticed in your video that you are not using a bubbler or dryer. You are going to cause engine damage with all those vapors going directly into your engine!

well, the blubber is inside the reservoir and we did installed a drier afterwards, but i am unable to upload pictures here. don't know whats the problem.

[aceras624]

a bubblers not realy a bubbler if its INSIDE the resevoir. A bubbler is supposed to be a first step to remove electrolyte out of your production gas. The dryer will help but id do both if i were you. What kind of dryer are you using?

[myoldyourgold]

I have always had a problem with why people bubble the HHO through the reservoir. It was originally thought this would protect the reactor encase of a back fire, which it would, but would spread electrolyte all over what ever was near especially without a flash pot if a flash back made it that far and destroyed the reservoir. The solution is to protect your caustic reservoir with a separate bubbler that protects both the reservoir and the reactor encase of a flash back. This still does not eliminate the flash pots and flash back arrestors. The second bubbler has a number of functions. It cleans/neutralizes the HHO of alkaline, prevents flash back form going any farther, and adds needed back pressure to the system. Bubbling the HHO through the electrolyte just picks up more electrolyte and cause the bubbler to work more to do its job or with out a bubbler puts more electrolyte into the engine. There is absolutely no reason to bubble through the electrolyte in the reservoir. Just put it in the top. Any liquid drops into the reservoir and the gas goes out the top. I use an additional trap that the bottom is above the high/full mark in the reservoir and it traps moisture and any electrolyte that might get splashed out going up or down steep hills and returns to the bottom of the reservoir.

[hhofox]

Man! I have got to make a flashback arrestor! My bubbler has a restricted opening which makes it harder for stuff to splash all the way up to its top, so I guess I am safe there. Can steel wool be used instead of brass wool to construct the Flashback Arrestor?
Also, my HHO is being sucked into the ported and manifold vacuum openings -doesn't this cut down the changes of having a flashback?

[Madsceintist]

This works great ...................... It's from a welding supply shop. It's the oxy/acet. flashback arrestor.

[sabretooth]

This is a transparent excellent quality fuel filter that can be easily found from auto spare parts shops. We just put it in a way that when you turn off the car, due to gravity the electrolyte goes back in the reservoir or you can open the reservoir cap to release the pressure (incase HHO attached to the vacuum hose)

(upload of file failed Again), let me put them on flickr then put a link here.

[sabretooth]

I have always had a problem with why people bubble the HHO through the reservoir. It was originally thought this would protect the reactor encase of a back fire, which it would, but would spread electrolyte all over what ever was near especially without a flash pot if a flash back made it that far and destroyed the reservoir. The solution is to protect your caustic reservoir with a separate bubbler that protects both the reservoir and the reactor encase of a flash back. This still does not eliminate the flash pots and flash back arrestors. The second bubbler has a number of functions. It cleans/neutralizes the HHO of alkaline, prevents flash back form going any farther, and adds needed back pressure to the system. Bubbling the HHO through the electrolyte just picks up more electrolyte and cause the bubbler to work more to do its job or with out a bubbler puts more electrolyte into the engine. There is absolutely no reason to bubble through the electrolyte in the reservoir. Just put it in the top. Any liquid drops into the reservoir and the gas goes out the top. I use an additional trap that the bottom is above the high/full mark in the reservoir and it traps moisture and any electrolyte that might get splashed out going up or down steep hills and returns to the bottom of the reservoir.


The pictures of the install are uploaded at link

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/3144/vpzz.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/651/vpzz.jpg/)
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/8972/vpzs.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/35/vpzs.jpg/)
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/7246/24057049.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/13/24057049.jpg/)
http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/2397/23338826.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/803/23338826.jpg/)

[hhofox]

Thanks for the reference Bio! I will have to check this out. If I remember clearly though, it has been said that regular FAs do not work for HHO. Did you test this FA? (I think your answer will be yes, but I gotta ask. Please humour me.)

Hey sabretooth! You put hho on a VVTi engine!? How's that working out? What is the make/model of the car and it's engine specs? I wanna know how much of a difference hho makes on these engines and how much fuss you have with the computer.

[sabretooth]

Thanks for the reference Bio! I will have to check this out. If I remember clearly though, it has been said that regular FAs do not work for HHO. Did you test this FA? (I think your answer will be yes, but I gotta ask. Please humour me.)

Hey sabretooth! You put hho on a VVTi engine!? How's that working out? What is the make/model of the car and it's engine specs? I wanna know how much of a difference hho makes on these engines and how much fuss you have with the computer.

I am using a Digital EFIE and everything seems to be fine, its a 1nz-fe from a toyota corolla 2012 (Pak versions have smaller engines).

I must add here that this o2 sensor thing sucks, a 4A-FE without an o2 sensor is giving better mileage than a 4A-FE with a wide-band o2 sensor. I have no idea why the manufacturers installed it in the first place. One actually ends up burning more fuel and polluting the environment when the o2 sensor is in place.
a K6A is a suzuki engine 660cc and it gives 13km/ltr , it has 2 o2 sensors. A suzuki g15 is a 1500cc engine and has no o2 sensor and it gives same mileage.

[hhofox]

Thanks for the info! The gov't doesn't WANT to have better mileage, ans save the environment, etc. They ARE backed by the Devil, so they do his bidding, as long as they get their share of the almighty dollar. Many simple points prove that.
Look at how many guys they "shut up" because they tried to save gas? Research it if you wanna know more.

Anyhow, I have my carb sucking in HHO and other vapours via the vacuum port, and it works pretty well. I will give more info when I get some numbers. Oh, and I am only pushing 4amps for my 1.3L engine (wanna get .325LPM in there to see how it handles it.) It looks good so far.

[aceras624]

"other vapors"?!?!? seem like SOMEONE needs to find some anhydrous calcium sulfate :)

[hhofox]

Hello everyone,
Hope all is well. I've got my HHO reactor pushing .3LPM@3.4Amps into my carb's vacuum port (along with HCS) and I am seeing a very nice increase in power.

So far, I have noticed that when I drive at speeds of over 80 KM/H for a while, then have to come to a complete stop at a light, my vehicle sometimes idles heavily, like it wants to stall. Once in a while, it does -but restarts very easily. I wonder if it is too much fuel, or too little, that is present.
I am thinking that it is too much, since this started happening after I got the systems working right. With HHO on, I even see water coming out of my tailpipe at times! When the car heats up, it wants to fly once it gets to 3rd gear!
Right now, I am trying to lean out my air to fuel mixture using the screw on the back of the carb. Screwing it in half a turn (more air, less fuel) seems to make my car idle a bit better -which is why I think it gets too much fuel with the HHO and HCS going. In which case, I should be able to lean it out even more -right?
I want to safely lean out my air-to-fuel mixture, but I do not have an Exhaust Gas Temp. guage!
Let me know what you guys think! Any input is welcome.;)

[Gatech]

Hey hhofox:

I leaned a LOOOOT my Carburettor, but a LOT. I lost some power, but now it's running upto 56% more MPG.

I haven't done any Exhaust Gas Temp test, cuz no one here know how to do it, or what is the ideal temperature. But I feel my car in the same way, same temperature, and working well....

I have read that with HHO you can lean it without getting it more hot.

Regards.

[hhofox]

Thanks a million again for the info, it is yielding good results. I am up to about 38MPG now, but I'll have to wait till the weekend to really be sure.

I have been doing a bit of reading and would like to run some stuff by you, but thought that it may need its own thread. So, please head over to the link below when you get the chance.

http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread....1463#post51463

Thanks, in advance.