Current Draw Questions 25plate cell (2004WRX)

[Alkaline]

.) so my cell is 25plate (4 sections?) with 5 neutrals in each (4x6" plates). I hear to keep it at 0.5amps per active surface area. does that mean i should only pull 12 amps? or 48max before getting brown sludgy water junk? I want to hit 3 liters per minute. if i cant line all the plates in one cell - i guess my other option is to separate the 25 plate cell into 2 separe dry cells and rig them in parallel?

.) i am using NaOH right now

.) running the air through an inline air filter and dumping the water that accumulates regularly

.) does the amperage pull go up significantly as the cell heats up? for example, if i measure 15amps (dindt actually measure yet, hypothetical) cold will that go up ALOT as i drive for an hr or 2?

[myoldyourgold]

.) so my cell is 25plate (4 sections?) with 5 neutrals in each (4x6" plates). I hear to keep it at 0.5amps per active surface area. does that mean i should only pull 12 amps? or 48max before getting brown sludgy water junk? I want to hit 3 liters per minute. if i cant line all the plates in one cell - i guess my other option is to separate the 25 plate cell into 2 separe dry cells and rig them in parallel?

4 x 6 plates means about 3 x 5 active area. that means each cell/pair should have 7.5 amps. Now you have 4 stacks so the total amperage can be 7.5 x 4 = 30 amps max. You will not make 3 liters with that. You will make just over 2 lpm


.) i am using NaOH right now

This is good

.) running the air through an inline air filter and dumping the water that accumulates regularly

I hope you are using a bubbler to scrub the alkaline out!!!

.) does the amperage pull go up significantly as the cell heats up? for example, if i measure 15amps (dindt actually measure yet, hypothetical) cold will that go up ALOT as i drive for an hr or 2?

Yes as the reactor heats up resistance goes down and amps go up. Depending on your concentration of electrolyte which will control where it will finally stop. If the concentration is to rich it will over heat and melt possibly the wires and cause damage to the plates but hopefully blow a fuse before all that.

[Alkaline]

thanks for the response. do you think i can hit and keep 2LPM with this config?? without overtaxing the system?

[myoldyourgold]

thanks for the response. do you think i can hit and keep 2LPM with this config?? without overtaxing the system?

Your welcome any time. As long as you keep it at or under 30 amps you will not tax the reactor. 2 LPM should be doable with that reactor if everything is right. 4 stacks sometimes heat up in the center because the electrolyte level is lower in the center if flow is not exactly right. Let us know how it goes.

[Alkaline]

Is this the point where the PWM becomes important to keep a 30amp max?? to keep the 4stacks from overheating after prolonged usage (2hr ish?)

[myoldyourgold]

Is this the point where the PWM becomes important to keep a 30amp max?? to keep the 4stacks from overheating after prolonged usage (2hr ish?)

Not necessary if you have the right concentration of electrolyte and level in all cells. A PWM is an easy way but not the most efficient way but in freezing conditions necessary so you can run full strength electrolyte. Once you have found the right concentration it can be maintained without to much trouble. I use a hydrometer to check the concentration and make adjustments. You should be able to run all day with no problems. If your flow, electrolyte level and concentration is right you will not have any problem.

[Alkaline]

what is a good MMW to strive for ? my 13 plate cell was doing 1litre per minute at 14amp 12.5volt = 5.71mmw

what do some of yours run at?

[myoldyourgold]

what is a good MMW to strive for ? my 13 plate cell was doing 1litre per minute at 14amp 12.5volt = 5.71mmw

what do some of yours run at?

100% Faraday in your reactor is 5.81 MMW of dry gas. So 5.71 with moisture is an excellent performer. I doubt it could be much better.

I am assuming you calculated correct. 12.5 v, 14 amps 2 stacks ,12 cells , 13 plates, active area (?), making 1 lpm. Adjusted for Barometric pressure.

[Alkaline]

13 plates, 2 stacks, 5 neutrals each. 4x6 plates--

.) 14amps at 12.5volt --> 1 litre per min

so after the gasket i guess its closer to 3.25x5.25active area= 17sq in x 0.5

looks like im over the recommended amp draw at 14 (perhaps should be ~8.5amp with my setup). maybe that is why the water was accumulating brown particles.


.) my hydrometer told me the concentration was around 10% NaOH (1.110Kg/lter at ~15C)


.) Did not notice any mpg difference in my 2004WRX at 1litre per minute

In the process of doubleing the stacks from 2 to 4 with hopes of increasing production to 2litre per minute. Aiming for 30 amp draw, just hoping that isnt too much to the point where the brown stuff builds up.

[myoldyourgold]

13 plates, 2 stacks, 5 neutrals each. 4x6 plates--

.) 14amps at 12.5volt --> 1 litre per min

so after the gasket i guess its closer to 3.25x5.25active area= 17sq in x 0.5

looks like im over the recommended amp draw at 14 (perhaps should be ~8.5amp with my setup). maybe that is why the water was accumulating brown particles.

With 2 stacks amps are divided between each stack. Your reactor with two stacks can take 17.6 amps and 4 stacks 35 amps max which will get over 2 LPM.


.) my hydrometer told me the concentration was around 10% NaOH (1.110Kg/lter at ~15C)


.) Did not notice any mpg difference in my 2004WRX at 1litre per minute

You might not notice any gain with two LPM either. Unless you have an EFIE etc. The alternative is to reduce your HHO to under .5 LPM and see if you get a gain. Make sure you reset the computer.

In the process of doubleing the stacks from 2 to 4 with hopes of increasing production to 2litre per minute. Aiming for 30 amp draw, just hoping that isnt too much to the point where the brown stuff builds up.

[Alkaline]

I do have a milage chip installed thats keeps an eye on the manifold temp and O2 sensor.

and thanks for clearing up that 2 stacks i can double the amp draw !

I'm going to try and hit the 35 amp mark (maybe around 14-15% NaOH) and see if i can get 2.5LPM. do you think that will be enough to make a diff with the chip?

[myoldyourgold]

When it comes to mileage chips I am afraid I would be guessing. I really have no idea. I can only report what others have experienced, which is sometimes it does and some times it doesn't. If it does not work go to less than .5 lpm and reset the computer.

[Quebecker]

Alkaline, your engine is 2.0 liters ?

If YES, start with only .250 LPM and reset the ECU.

Formula: 0.125 * 2.0 = 0.250


I know, 0.250 LPM is very low but make the test. I obtain very goods results in this way with my Civic Si 1.7 VTEC. I inject only 0.230 LPM :)

[Alkaline]

that is veryyyy low? Is yours turbo as well? I think the turbo on the WRX is setting me back in HHo gains..

[myoldyourgold]

Quebecker, Lets look a little closer at your results. Your car is known, when everything is working right, to exceed the 34 mpg that the company claims. Also are you using the Canadian gallon 4.55 liters or US gallon 3.79 lters the difference is 760 ml.

Now because a family member has a 2010 civic that gets with mixed driving 40 mpg US on a regular basis.

Here is some more info on reported mpg on the Honda 1.7 liter

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=yourMpgVehicle&id=19590

I bring all this up just so there is no misunderstanding. Some vehicles do make some gains with no electronics and small amounts of HHO. The data I have collected shows it is some where between 2 to 7 miles per gallon. If you took an average of all vehicles tried without leaning the number is a very small number. The problem is there is a larger number of vehicles that get no gains on the same amount of HHO per liter of engine size and all will get better if tuned with the right amount of HHO to a lean mixture. The range of improvement far exceeds the 2-7 mpg in a lot of cases but still is not consistent across all engines or makes and models due to engine condition and a host of other things.

[Quebecker]

Carter,


For some clarification, I actually used a gallon United States as a measure of conversion. Also, my car is a Civic 2004 EX (If in Canada / United States in EX) 1.7l VTEC Automatic.



http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2340/civicsiauto.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/88/civicsiauto.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)



Quebecker, Lets look a little closer at your results. Your car is known, when everything is working right, to exceed the 34 mpg that the company claims. Also are you using the Canadian gallon 4.55 liters or US gallon 3.79 lters the difference is 760 ml.

Now because a family member has a 2010 civic that gets with mixed driving 40 mpg US on a regular basis.

Here is some more info on reported mpg on the Honda 1.7 liter

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=yourMpgVehicle&id=19590

I bring all this up just so there is no misunderstanding. Some vehicles do make some gains with no electronics and small amounts of HHO. The data I have collected shows it is some where between 2 to 7 miles per gallon. If you took an average of all vehicles tried without leaning the number is a very small number. The problem is there is a larger number of vehicles that get no gains on the same amount of HHO per liter of engine size and all will get better if tuned with the right amount of HHO to a lean mixture. The range of improvement far exceeds the 2-7 mpg in a lot of cases but still is not consistent across all engines or makes and models due to engine condition and a host of other things.

[myoldyourgold]

That is good. I am very interested to see if gains hold over time. Lots of good information can be obtained by your testing. Are you still using MMO in the bubbler? This actually allows you to use more HHO without electronics because the para in the the HHO attaches itself to the hydrocarbon vapor formed and it gets consumed in the combustion chamber adding to the mix of things. Also the highest reported mileage on your vehicle is more than the average. Keep us informed as time goes on.

[Quebecker]

That is good. I am very interested to see if gains hold over time. Lots of good information can be obtained by your testing. Are you still using MMO in the bubbler? This actually allows you to use more HHO without electronics because the para in the the HHO attaches itself to the hydrocarbon vapor formed and it gets consumed in the combustion chamber adding to the mix of things. Also the highest reported mileage on your vehicle is more than the average. Keep us informed as time goes on.

Yes, MMO is perfect for our climate ;). We still have temperatures -15°C at night and -5°C during the day.