First Build- have some general questions

[NorCalWheeler]

Hello all, Ive been reading about HHO for a few years now and have finally gotten it set up. Well on the bench anyway. Im getting ready to install it in my truck which is a toyota tacoma. I have a few (maybe dumb) questions. Here is what i have and am playing around with.

16 plate cell from liberator industries
water4gas efie
ogo pwm
scangauge 2

I dont understand the differences between electrolytes, the instructions i got with the cell says to use pure lye, but other things i have read say KOH is better. I have cell on bench with lye.

What should the optimum temperature of the cell should be during operation?

How many amps should i be drawing?

What is the resonance frequency i should set on pwm?

I am not a mechanic or electrician, i do work on my cars but mostly basic stuff-. Ive been fascinated by the concept and also most of my friends are nay-sayers, so it made me want to do it even more. I have already changed one of my friends mind just yetserday :)

Any other important information is gladly welcomed Thank you

[hhofox]

Welcome to the forum!

You seem to be well on your way already -judging by the questions you have asked. You'll have to look around in the forum to get those answers (along with providing more info on your vehicle and setup.) Don't worry, it's all here, with much more info as well! You'll be happy you took the time to search and read if you actually do so.
I recommend viewing the results thread.

[aceras624]

Hello all, Ive been reading about HHO for a few years now and have finally gotten it set up. Well on the bench anyway. Im getting ready to install it in my truck which is a toyota tacoma. I have a few (maybe dumb) questions. Here is what i have and am playing around with.

16 plate cell from liberator industries
water4gas efie
ogo pwm
scangauge 2

I dont understand the differences between electrolytes, the instructions i got with the cell says to use pure lye, but other things i have read say KOH is better. I have cell on bench with lye.

What should the optimum temperature of the cell should be during operation?

How many amps should i be drawing?

What is the resonance frequency i should set on pwm?

I am not a mechanic or electrician, i do work on my cars but mostly basic stuff-. Ive been fascinated by the concept and also most of my friends are nay-sayers, so it made me want to do it even more. I have already changed one of my friends mind just yetserday :)

Any other important information is gladly welcomed Thank you


KOH is traditionally called LYE but LYE is NOW considered NaHO

max efficient temp is 43C(110F)

maximum amperage is .5 amps per ACTIVE square inch of ONE side of ONE plate of each cell if using 316L SS. .25 amps/square inch for 304 how big are your plates? gaskets? what grade steel? whats the setup?
ie -NNNN+

as for frequency, my CCPWM came with only one setting. Might be like 100 htz or something, dont really know.

these numbers above that Ive provided are things ive cut and copied from this forum over the past couple months. hope they help

[myoldyourgold]

KOH is not Lye. It is commonly called caustic potash and used in soap making.

NaOH is Lye. Used as a drain cleaner and many other things.

I get them mixed up all the time so you are not alone.

[aceras624]

GRRRRR I was told KOH was LYE!!! Im so sick of the lies!!!! :/
OK so now that we bring it up, KOH is Potassium Hydroxide, Which I currently use, and NaOH is Sodium Hydroxide. Ive seen a couple people say Pasivation uses NaOH. Any thoughts? I like using the KOH blend I have but if NaOH is somehow better, id like to know why

[aceras624]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lye

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS wiki link says Lye is BOTH?!?! CHAAAAAOOOOSSSS!!!!!! :)

[ruelpayumo]

Hello there! I just want to express my opinion about Lye. Yes, NaOH (Sodium Hydroxide) and KOH (Potassium Hydroxide) are both called Lye. Lye is a general category and both NaOH & KOH are its sub-categories. NaOH is also called Caustic Soda lye and KOH is also called Potash lye. Same thing with Salt, NaCl (Sodium Chloride) and KCl (Potassium Chloride) are sub-categories of the general category salt.

[myoldyourgold]

Thanks for clearing that up. In layman terms NaOH is more commonly known as lye and KOH as caustic soda or potash. This has come about due to the uses in soaps, drain cleaners and in the processing of olives to remove the bitterness just to name a few household uses. Technically not correct but widely used.

[hhofox]

So basically, if you want to be accurate, just know your facts and read labels to be sure of what you are getting, right?

NaOH = Sodium Hydroxide
KOH = Potassium Hydroxide

Btw.. nice job clearing up the ambiguity there guys!;)

[NorCalWheeler]

Hello, Sorry it has taken me so long to reply. ive been busy. As far as the lye thing goes, i bought it from the hardware store, it says "pure lye" on it.

I wanted to share some results about my install. I have everything installed on my vehicle and am saving gas! I drove my truck about a 1000 miles this last week and i think it would be safe to say im saving about 20% on avarage depending on how fast im going.
My truck is lifted and has 4:88 gears with 33inch tires. its a 2.7l engine. normally i get between 10-18mpg, 18 being coasting down a big hill and 10 in town. if im on the gas driving fast im saving about 10-20%, but if im driving conservatively and slower than the speed limit on the freeway, id have to say im getting almost 35% better mileage I got almost 25 mpg on during one part of trip. pretty exciting..... I have a broken speedo cable so my mpg from the scanguage doesnt read, but i do have gallons per hour (gph) .,... while driving with my foot steady on the gas and on a flat straight strech of road i will use my toggle switch to switch between factory and enhanced. I DO NOT know how many amps i am pulling because i dont have a working ampmeter. napa sold be a crappy amp meter that doesnt even work . Basicly i keep my pwn on 90% duty and 500khz frequency and thats it. It doesnt really get that hot, maybe 110f (dont know for sure but the cell is warm, but not tested it. I have seen a pretty significant savings but I have a few more questions and issues...

On the outside of my cell it is corroding pretty bad. all around the bolts and out side of the cell and on side...can i spray corrosion inhibiter on the out side out the cell? will post picture

can the cell be insulated?

I went on my trip and it was in cold weather so i added a lil more lye to it.

How often do i need to perform maintenance on the cell, and what should i do?

if i need to add water to my cell do i add plain water or pre-mix electrolyte solution?

[aceras624]

Hello, Sorry it has taken me so long to reply. ive been busy. As far as the lye thing goes, i bought it from the hardware store, it says "pure lye" on it.

I wanted to share some results about my install. I have everything installed on my vehicle and am saving gas! I drove my truck about a 1000 miles this last week and i think it would be safe to say im saving about 20% on avarage depending on how fast im going.
My truck is lifted and has 4:88 gears with 33inch tires. its a 2.7l engine. normally i get between 10-18mpg, 18 being coasting down a big hill and 10 in town. if im on the gas driving fast im saving about 10-20%, but if im driving conservatively and slower than the speed limit on the freeway, id have to say im getting almost 35% better mileage I got almost 25 mpg on during one part of trip. pretty exciting..... I have a broken speedo cable so my mpg from the scanguage doesnt read, but i do have gallons per hour (gph) .,... while driving with my foot steady on the gas and on a flat straight strech of road i will use my toggle switch to switch between factory and enhanced. I DO NOT know how many amps i am pulling because i dont have a working ampmeter. napa sold be a crappy amp meter that doesnt even work . Basicly i keep my pwn on 90% duty and 500khz frequency and thats it. It doesnt really get that hot, maybe 110f (dont know for sure but the cell is warm, but not tested it. I have seen a pretty significant savings but I have a few more questions and issues...

On the outside of my cell it is corroding pretty bad. all around the bolts and out side of the cell and on side...can i spray corrosion inhibiter on the out side out the cell? will post picture

can the cell be insulated?

I went on my trip and it was in cold weather so i added a lil more lye to it.

How often do i need to perform maintenance on the cell, and what should i do?

if i need to add water to my cell do i add plain water or pre-mix electrolyte solution?

I have a feeling your next post is gonna be something like "soo I let off the gas an my truck kept going faster and faster!!!! unitl i turned off the HHO unit :)

What is th cause of rust? is it from outside like road salt?

the cell can be insulated if heat is not an issue

maintenance is based on your setup and usage. Only YOU can figure out how often youll need to "fix" things.

assuming youre using KOH or NaOH you should only need to top off with distilled water when needed(note some electrolyte usually comes out as vapor depending on how hot the cell is. this may need to be replaced with a light solution of electrolyte). Checking hoses and replacing/cleaning any filter media is done as needed

[hhofox]

Hey, are you sure that the cell isn't leaking? You said that you can see signs of corrosion, so check this stuff out. You can get more out of your cell if you get rid of leaks.
It would be great if you could tell how many amps it's pulling and also check its temp.

[NorCalWheeler]

I have a feeling your next post is gonna be something like "soo I let off the gas an my truck kept going faster and faster!!!! unitl i turned off the HHO unit :)

What is th cause of rust? is it from outside like road salt?

the cell can be insulated if heat is not an issue

maintenance is based on your setup and usage. Only YOU can figure out how often youll need to "fix" things.

assuming youre using KOH or NaOH you should only need to top off with distilled water when needed(note some electrolyte usually comes out as vapor depending on how hot the cell is. this may need to be replaced with a light solution of electrolyte). Checking hoses and replacing/cleaning any filter media is done as needed

The corrosion is most likely coming from how i have the cell mounted. I think i have figured it out. I have the cell mounted on my frame and used some ducting hose clamps to secure it. in the process in think i tightened it too much and caused the cell to split apart a bit. I loosened the clamps up and have tightend the bolts on the cell a bit. I am ordering a amp meter today so i will be able to see how many im pulling.