Water seeks it's own level

[Avalanche1]

Since water seeks its own level the solution is going to come out the top of the cell. Is this a problem? My cell is about a 1.5 feet below the storage tank.
I am sure this has been asked before but searching I could not find the answer.

[myoldyourgold]

Since water seeks its own level the solution is going to come out the top of the cell. Is this a problem? My cell is about a 1.5 feet below the storage tank.
I am sure this has been asked before but searching I could not find the answer.

Yes it possibly will. It depends on how much back pressure caused by friction in the lines, diffuser in the bubbler/height of liquid, flashback arrestor, the size and location of the input and exit ports etc. What happens is pressure builds at the top of the reactor because of the above and pushes the level of the electrolyte down. If the reservoir is high enough then it will overcome these pressures and you will run in a flooded state.

[Avalanche1]

Yes it possibly will. It depends on how much back pressure caused by friction in the lines, diffuser in the bubbler/height of liquid, flashback arrestor, the size and location of the input and exit ports etc. What happens is pressure builds at the top of the reactor because of the above and pushes the level of the electrolyte down. If the reservoir is high enough then it will overcome these pressures and you will run in a flooded state.

I am an extreme newbie. So forgive my ignorance. The reservoir and the bubbler are the samething in my case, from my limited reading I thought they are always the same thing. The outlet then goes to the scrubber which is about 3 feet away, probably should be insulated correct? I do not have an arrestor yet. The scrubber is about 10" away from the intake and slightly above the bubbler hoping for draining back on off cycle. The ports on the tanks cells and all other equipment is probably 3/8 but haven't measured.
The height of the liquid will be equal on the inlet and outlet.
I did buy this system but not willing to give brand until I know results, maybe I was an idiot for doing so, time will tell.

[aceras624]

I am an extreme newbie. So forgive my ignorance. The reservoir and the bubbler are the samething in my case, from my limited reading I thought they are always the same thing. The outlet then goes to the scrubber which is about 3 feet away, probably should be insulated correct? I do not have an arrestor yet. The scrubber is about 10" away from the intake and slightly above the bubbler hoping for draining back on off cycle. The ports on the tanks cells and all other equipment is probably 3/8 but haven't measured.
The height of the liquid will be equal on the inlet and outlet.
I did buy this system but not willing to give brand until I know results, maybe I was an idiot for doing so, time will tell.

resevoir= holds electrolyte
bubbler=holds distilled water(+vinegar sometimes) so HHO gas can be "scrubbed" of NON HHO byproducts

what do you mean by "scrubber"?

just keep the overall water level in the resevoir ABOVE the top of the dry cell. even lower is better. the return to the resevoir can be going into the resevoir from ABOVE the electrolyte line in the resevoir to make exchange easier

[dixiepc]

Carter,

Is it a good thing or a bad thing for the cell to run in the flooded state?

Monty

[myoldyourgold]

There is more than one school of thought but this is mine. The flood state has electrolyte running across the top of all the plates. This has to happen at start up until the back pressure does its thing but after that there is no need to have liquid passing across all the plates giving an easy path for current leakage. Now on the other hand, if for what ever reason, your reactor is running to hot it is better to run it in a flooded state to keep it cool than over heat. It is a trade off and even though a flooded state is never the most efficient state in my book in a bipolar reactor it could be a trade off that is necessary in some cases. Besides the leakage problem it might effect the quality of the HHO too. A flood state is just slightly better than an open bath which exposes all the edges. With Weldon the leakage is minimized but in the flooded state you are encouraging it. The way it works is once the ions find an easy path (path of least resistance) they turn it into a super highway no matter how small it is even a pin hole in the Weldon.

[aceras624]

they turn it into a super highway no matter how small it is even a pin hole in the Weldon.

ive never used Weldon but ordered it because of this forum. Should I realistically be worried about it having a pinhole leak?

[myoldyourgold]

It is not something to loos sleep about but little bubbles are formed and if you do what most of us do and fill the whole port and then open up to the size we want leaving enough around the inner edge, then there is very little chance of having a small bubble hole but I always look at them because it is very easy to fix it before you assemble. The only reason I know this is because after opening a reactor I have found track marks in the past when I was not so careful in putting it on. Still not something to get excited about, Just be careful and you will be fine.

[aceras624]

Still not something to get excited about, Just be careful and you will be fine.

WHEW! ;)

also you said a flooded state provides an easy pathe for leakage? that doesnt make sense to me. If that were the case wouldnt ALL HHO generators have this weak point? are there any that have so much gas in them that half or more of the cell isnt flooded? and isnt this "current leakage" waht we want but over a uniform scale? Im under the impression that the bubbles that form in the cell have edges that encourage leakage? Ive always valued your opinions but Im wondering if youre too far in ;) hahhahha JK:D

[myoldyourgold]

I have no idea what you mean. Current leakage in not in the cell but between the cells. A flood state is when electrolyte flows out the exit port in a steady stream with the gas and passes through other cells on its way to the reservoir. That means the level of the electrolyte is over the bottom edge of the exit ports when running. The ideal situation is to have the electrolyte just a fraction below the exit port when running. It will always flood when off. The pressure in the system when running will keep the electrolyte down to just below the bottom of the exit ports. This is adjusted mainly by the height of the reservoir. What should be going out of the exit port is gas bubbles not a steady stream of electrolyte. The bubbles contain lots of moisture but there is voids that stop the continuous flow of current, compared to a continuous flow of electrolyte, which is a very good conductor. Large bubbles in the reactor act as insulators and only allow ion movement on there surface making hot spots on the plate, a bad thing. There are reactors that if the pressures are not right ie reservoir to low that the cells have a low level of electrolyte in them and are very inefficient because they have less surface area to make gas and over heat and bla bla bla. You really need to do a little more reading so you understand what is really happening in a reactor. As much as I like helping people these are very elementary questions that have been answered hundreds of times before. It gets pretty boring to have to repeat this stuff day in and day out. Have fun and be careful!!

[aceras624]

you seem to be misunderstanding my point. no worries. ttyl :)

[myoldyourgold]

you seem to be misunderstanding my point. no worries

Ya that is what I excel in.......misunderstanding!! :D

[Avalanche1]

resevoir= holds electrolyte
bubbler=holds distilled water(+vinegar sometimes) so HHO gas can be "scrubbed" of NON HHO byproducts

what do you mean by "scrubber"?
There is a small tank with a sponge in it, also a filter. Think the it's also refered to as scrubber

The water level will always be above the cell since it a foot to a foot and a half above it installed. That why the water level is coming out of the cell outlet.

[aceras624]

why not use a bubbler?

[Avalanche1]

why not use a bubbler?

There is but the reservoir and bubbler are one in the same, but I guess that doesn't really scrub the electrolyte does it.

[myoldyourgold]

There is but the reservoir and bubbler are one in the same, but I guess that doesn't really scrub the electrolyte does it.

No it does not. In fact it adds electrolyte laden moisture to the gas. You must have a separate bubbler with either boric acid or vinegar in the liquid to help neutralize the alkaline in the electrolyte. You do not want the escaping electrolyte to eat all the aluminum parts it might touch.

[aceras624]

[QUOTE=Avalanche1;49072]There is but the reservoir and bubbler are one in the same, but I guess that doesn't really scrub the electrolyte does itQUOTE]

why are people still porting there drycells exit to the same level in the resevoir as where the electrolyte exits the resevoir to feed the cell??

my exit from the cell goes back into the resevoir above the exit from the resevoir

[Avalanche1]

[QUOTE=Avalanche1;49072]There is but the reservoir and bubbler are one in the same, but I guess that doesn't really scrub the electrolyte does itQUOTE]

why are people still porting there drycells exit to the same level in the resevoir as where the electrolyte exits the resevoir to feed the cell??

my exit from the cell goes back into the resevoir above the exit from the resevoir

Exactly so you are in the same boat I am.

[hhofox]

This seems like a good time to ask. My reservoir's output is at the base, with it's input (for gas and excess electrolyte) is above that -actually, the distance between the two ports is over 7". That's more than the height of my reactor! This way, the liquid is recycled, and the gas escapes out of the top of my rez.

Anyhow, what I have done is to make make my supply hose to the reactor about the size of the regular fish tank tubing. This slows down the rate of supply, and helps increase production -supposedly. (I read somewhere long ago- correct me if I am wrong. ;) )
Also, the height of the output port on the rez, is hanging about an inch BELOW the OUTPUT port of my reactor. This helps to discourage the flooding of the cells inside the reactor.
Is this setup good? (It works well for me!) Or, is there anything you'd change?
I am all ears.

[Avalanche1]

Can't help you there, I'm a newbie too.
My concerns are: I had a old and I mean probably 30 years old amp meter. With the original mixture 2 tbsp per gallon I had 15 amps. testing to get more production I tried to increase amps to 20, this ended up being a lot of back and forth mixing and never hitting my mark. :(
I didn't want to run a large wire into the cab so I bought a shunt. The display that connects to the shunt has to be calibrated to a load which I haven't done yet. The basic mixture is back in the cell and this new shunt is indicating 43 amps, which I don't believe is true, the shunt millivolts show 3.6, can't dial the amps down anymore with the adjustment screw to indicate anything less on the display. Should the 3.6 indicate exactly that 3.6 amps? The production line doesn't look like much.

[Avalanche1]

My testing of this technology tells me so far it's worth less on my avalanche. I definatley had more power as my down shifting up hills wasn't as frequent but if there is a mileage increase its not noticeable. I never useed nor will I invest in an EFIE.

[aceras624]

Can't help you there, I'm a newbie too.
My concerns are: I had a old and I mean probably 30 years old amp meter. With the original mixture 2 tbsp per gallon I had 15 amps. testing to get more production I tried to increase amps to 20, this ended up being a lot of back and forth mixing and never hitting my mark. :(
I didn't want to run a large wire into the cab so I bought a shunt. The display that connects to the shunt has to be calibrated to a load which I haven't done yet. The basic mixture is back in the cell and this new shunt is indicating 43 amps, which I don't believe is true, the shunt millivolts show 3.6, can't dial the amps down anymore with the adjustment screw to indicate anything less on the display. Should the 3.6 indicate exactly that 3.6 amps? The production line doesn't look like much.

whats with all the mixing? just use a light solution and add KOH until you get desired production.

a shunt is no replacement for a larger diamter cable. You can start a fire if youre trying to pull too much current through thinner wire

all shunts and ampmeters dont just go together. they have to be the right match. It sounds like your dont

what are you refering to when you say "production line"?

[Avalanche1]

whats with all the mixing? just use a light solution and add KOH until you get desired production.

a shunt is no replacement for a larger diamter cable. You can start a fire if youre trying to pull too much current through thinner wire

all shunts and ampmeters dont just go together. they have to be the right match. It sounds like your dont

what are you refering to when you say "production line"?

I'm currently running 15 amps and have tried more but I get check engine light around 20 amps after a couple of hundred miles.

Shunt and ammeter came as a package. Shunts are used to get milliamperes reading to the display so no chance of fire.

Production line refers to the output tube of the plates.

[aceras624]

I'm currently running 15 amps and have tried more but I get check engine light around 20 amps after a couple of hundred miles.

Shunt and ammeter came as a package. Shunts are used to get milliamperes reading to the display so no chance of fire.

Production line refers to the output tube of the plates.

there are 2 ways of getting MPG gains. By adding some HHO to make a more efficient burn or by REPLACING gasoline by adding a lot more HHO and using gadgets (MAP/MAF sensor enhancer, EFIE etc)

when a shunt comes with an ammeter, it shouldnt need any adjustment. All of the ones ive used have come preset. Maybe they sent you the wrong shunt?

I wasnt saying the shunt was going to catch fire. You said you were replacing a thicker wire with a shunt I believe. A shunt is not a replacement for thicker wire.