How to calculate amount of KOH needed?

[fluttercell]

I don't remember enough of chemistry to remember how to calculate masses needed for certain concentrations of solutions. So, I know I need a 24% KOH concentration, so how much KOH would I need for 1 gallon of distilled water?

[Donor]

per gallon I have found out from alot of research 2 tablespoons per gallon. I have mixed 1 tablespoon for a 2 liter bottle today.

[hhoconnection]

Donor:

Your not even close. Correct me if I am wrong here guys because I always use a weaker solution, but 28% KOH is about 1 lb of KOH/gallon of water. I would imagine 24% would be a little less but certainly not only 2 tbsp.

[myoldyourgold]

1 gallon of water weighs 9.345 pounds. That is 149.536 ounces.

28% the maximum of KOH by weight will equal 58.153 ounces or 3.634 pounds of KOH per gallon.

20% the maximum of NaOH by weight will equal 186.92 ounces or 2.336 pounds of NaOH per gallon.

[hhoconnection]

1 gallon of water weighs 9.345 pounds. That is 149.536 ounces.

28% the maximum of KOH by weight will equal 58.153 ounces or 3.634 pounds of KOH per gallon.

20% the maximum of NaOH by weight will equal 186.92 ounces or 2.336 pounds of NaOH per gallon.

I knew it was a lot. See, I wasn't even close.

[Donor]

I keep destroying fuses now with my 1 tablespoon per 2 liters of water. I don't even know what to do now. As the cell warms up i guess so do the amps. Maybe I should start at 1 teaspoon for 2 liters of water. I destroy fuses once I satrt the engine. I am way beyond ****ed off right now.:mad:

With the jeep off and power to the cell I am at 20 amps and then after a minute the fuse is blown. I am about ready to throw in the towel on this HHO thing . I an tired of putting money into this thing. I spent alot of time making this 21 plate 6x6 cell.

[myoldyourgold]

I keep destroying fuses now with my 1 tablespoon per 2 liters of water. I don't even know what to do now. As the cell warms up i guess so do the amps. Maybe I should start at 1 teaspoon for 2 liters of water. I destroy fuses once I satrt the engine. I am way beyond ****ed off right now.

With the jeep off and power to the cell I am at 20 amps and then after a minute the fuse is blown. I am about ready to throw in the towel on this HHO thing . I an tired of putting money into this thing. I spent alot of time making this 21 plate 6x6 cell.

Donor, there is no need to throw in towel quite yet. First lets us get some basics done. You want some where between 1.97 to 2.3 volts per cell. That is 13.8 divided by the either 6 CELLS or 7 CELLS If I remember from another post you made you have 21 plates that are arranged like this -NNNN+NNNN-NNNN+NNNN- . In this case you have 5 CELLS in each stack. So you will be running 2.76 volts per cell. That is to high and draw to many amps for your fuse. To solve this problem I would suggest you go to this. -NNNNN+NNNNN-NNNNN+ 19 plates or better yet go to 6 N's per stack and 22 plates. You can always reduce the electrolyte and run it like it is. But 20 amps in a 4 stack will give you only 5 amps per cell and not make as much gas per cell as a 3 stack 19 plate at 6.6 amps per cell. More gas per cell with less heat. If you stay with 4 N's per stack you will need very little electrolyte. Start with a 1 teaspoon for 2 liters and add more only after it warms up if needed to get to the amps you want to draw. It will not be as efficient as a 19 plate or 22 plate reactor.

[Donor]

FINALLY someone who can help me lol. I am just going to keep what I have for now and drain my electrolyte and try the solution you recommended. i was using a table spoon for 2 liters water. i have taken this thing apart so many times now because of busted 1/2 plexi and polycarbonate as well. The plastic shop gave me some white stuff and said this will work for me. No problems with breaking yet only fuses blowing up. I will write down your answer in my hho notebook and if things still don't work out I will try the other plate configuration instead. I was excited I had 2.30 lpm with the car off right off the bat but as soon as I started it up the fuse went. Does it take awhile for a cell to warm up ? Also if I have lets say 5-10 amps will it go up after in use awhile ? Sometimes I just can't find the answers I am looking for. Thanks ALOT friend.

[Donor]

If I wen't with the 3 stack how much electrolyte should I start with. I might just redo it that way. I just don't want to make more plates, its hard work.


Ok I did my little drawing and I have enough plates to do the -nnnnn+nnnnn-nnnnn+ which is the 19 plate design. What should I start with a concentration and what amperage fuse should I go with. I really hope you answer tonight LOL. Now I am excited about this now.

[myoldyourgold]

If I wen't with the 3 stack how much electrolyte should I start with. I might just redo it that way. I just don't want to make more plates, its hard work.


Ok I did my little drawing and I have enough plates to do the -nnnnn+nnnnn-nnnnn+ which is the 19 plate design. What should I start with a concentration and what amperage fuse should I go with. I really hope you answer tonight LOL. Now I am excited about this now.

I would use the same mixture you have and go to a 30 amp fuse. You will most likely need to up the amount of electrolyte. Do you have an amp meter hooked up to the system? This is necessary. The reactor will draw more amps after it warms up so let it run for a while before making any changes. Keep checking the temperature. You can always add more electrolyte. Drain some of the electrolyte out and use that to mix more electrolyte in and then put it back in and let the unit run for 10 minutes at least to allow the stronger electrolyte to mix and get into the reactor. This might take much more than 10 minutes depending on your setup. If you can drain all the electrolyte and then add to it things go faster when changing concentration.

[Donor]

Yeah i have an ammeter gauge hard wired in under the hood for now. How long does it take for it to warm up ? I thought once you hooked up the positive the initial amps it uses is what it stays at. I now beginning to understand that if I start the vehicle and it says lets say 10 amps doesn't mean it stays at 10 amps. Once it warms up it might be 20 or 25 amps. If the 19 plate you talked about with the 5 neutrals in it will produce more hho at lower amperage and heat that is where I should put my attention to instead of my 21 plate design. just for my peace of mind of understanding more,

With a 21 plate 4 neutrals it will take less KOH to make hho but more amps to make alot
With a 19 plate 5 neutrals it will take more KOH to make hho but amps are lower

Did I just learn something ???

[myoldyourgold]

Yeah i have an ammeter gauge hard wired in under the hood for now. How long does it take for it to warm up ? I thought once you hooked up the positive the initial amps it uses is what it stays at. I now beginning to understand that if I start the vehicle and it says lets say 10 amps doesn't mean it stays at 10 amps. Once it warms up it might be 20 or 25 amps. If the 19 plate you talked about with the 5 neutrals in it will produce more hho at lower amperage and heat that is where I should put my attention to instead of my 21 plate design. just for my peace of mind of understanding more,

With a 21 plate 4 neutrals it will take less KOH to make hho but more amps to make alot
With a 19 plate 5 neutrals it will take more KOH to make hho but amps are lower

Did I just learn something ???

Well it is not exactly like that. Amps make HHO 10 amps make x amount of gas if there is 2 plates or 21 plates. The active area of one side of one plate in a bipolar reactor controls the maximum number of amps you can run. Now heat to a point is beneficial but to much creates what we call thermal runaway. Which means the hotter the electrolyte gets the less resistance the electrolyte has and the more amps it will draw until you start boiling the water and just making steam. You need to to do some more reading and understand the relationship of volts to amps and how the bipolar (n) plates affect voltage and thus amps. Everything I am posting here is already been posted and you need to read all of it. Use the search feature and use key words to cut down on your reading time.

You also need to understand what a stack is and how it effects amps. Here is the basic rules in regards to Bipolar (bipolar means one side of the plate is - and the other side is +) plates and stacks.

Voltage is divided by the number of cells in a stack of bipolar plates (a cell has an anode and a cothode) -nnnnnn+ is 7 cells 1 stack and would divide the input voltage by 7. Now in a vehicle 13.8 volts in normal so divided by 7 will equal 1.97 volts per cell.

Amperage is divided by the number of stacks. This is an example of 2 stacks. -nnnnnn+nnnnnn+ Here the voltage is divided by 7 and the amps are divided by 2. Voltage is only divided once no matter how many stacks.

Let us say in the first example you have 13.8 volts and 10 amps being the maximum you can run which is governed by the size of the plates and you make 500 MLPM (1/2 a litter). What is happening there is that each cell gets 1.97 volts and each cell gets 10 amps.

Now lets look at the second example. With the same 13.8 volts each cell will get 1.97 volts but each cell will only get 5amps. The total gas made is still 500 MLPM the same as the first example. Heat will be less but there is no gain in gas production. Now what is the advantage of more stacks? Remember I said the maximum amps per cell/active area was 10 amps. In the second example there is only 5 amp per cell and so if you now make a richer electrolyte (lower resistance) and run 20 amps total which is only 10 amp per cell (20 divided by 2 stacks) you will make theoretically twice as much gas. Because of the inefficiencies of the reactor it will be less but you get the idea. Now I hope that helps a little but you need to do a lot more reading. Have fun and be safe.

[hhofox]

Couldn't have said it better myself!
To keep things simple, just make sure you have 5 or 6 (preferably 6) neutrals between the - and + poles. If you want more gas, and a cooler running unit just add another 6 neutrals to the stack you had before along with another pole.
It's kinda like building one of those Scooby Doo sandwiches -you can always add more, as long as you've got more stuff to go inside it, and the 1 extra slice of bread to top it all off.
Just make sure it can still fit in your car! :D
Enjoy!

[Donor]

Well for the first time i was able to dilute the concentration so I wouldn't fry the fuse when I started it up. EXITED lol. Drove around and mpg definately increased 10 mpg at 50 at cruising speed. from a red light or stop sign it sucked bad but once a constant speed it worked. I know I am not near 2.5 lpm like before when I kept melting fuses left and right but I can see in my bubbler there definately isn't 2.5 lpm being made anymore. Here is the weird thing my cell doesn't even get warm after driving 15 minutes home today. Also last night when I had my resevoir open the hho gas had like a boil steam look to it as it was coming out. That I don't understand at all , the resevoir was cold and so was the cell ?????????? Even before when I was at 25-30 amps the cell never got warm or hot just room temperature. There is so much to read and understand it gets really confusing with formulas and all that stuff. Granted I am not a idiot and built this whole cell from scratch. I am a self employed painting contractor but definately not a science wizard. I am not even sure if i should buy a volo chip because I think right now I am at getting more mpg without setting off a light. Even a EFIE or PWM for that matter. I don't know if I should go to a 19 plate or try making more hho or not. I am afraid if I go for more hho I am going to need all that stuff.