Perfect HHO Test Bed?

[hhofox]

Hello Everyone.
I need your input.
I have a 1991 Corolla Hatchback, 1.3L Carbed Engine with NO computer and a mechanical fuel pump. It runs well, engine has been overhauled, and so on.
I would like to know how you would outfit this machine with HHO if it was your car. I am currently calculating the base mileage without HHO. This is after it has been cleaned by an HHO unit running on it for a bout 1 year. :D
The unit puts out over 2LPM easily, and has 1 bubbler/reservoir, and 1 bubbler with Vinegar in it. Both bubblers are 12" in length and 2.5" in width.

Please point out:

Where you would let the HHO enter the engine (i.e: Intake Manif, or air cleaner, etc.)
How much HHO you would have the unit produce.
What tweaks, if any, you would make to the car's existing setup (i.e.: AFR adjustment, Idle adj, Timing adj, etc.)


This info will prove to be of help to myself, as well as anyone else with a similar setup. I hope to also do similar tests on a 1990, 1.5L EFI OBDII Geo Prizm. A Toyota mark 2 vehicle may be in the works as well, so your help would go a long way.
Let me hear what you all have to say, and we can see what comes of it!

[mytoyotasucks]

First of all, you should feel a power difference from with or with out.
And a exaust gas temp gauge is a good thing to have if you are going to modify you carb, since you dont want to lean out the fuel to where the engine gets to hot.

I put my HHO before the TB or carb, dont like vacuum sucking any junk out of the cell. And have gotten better results from doing it this way.

[hhofox]

Thanks for the reply!
I do feel some difference with the HHO. It's kinda hard to keep track though, cause I keep fixing things on the car, so it runs better and better.
The EGT gauge is a good thing- I'll have to search for one. (Look at my location.) I think cost will be a factor if I find one.
I dislike the idea of NoAH vapours entering my carb/engine as well, so I have my output hose above the carb's opening in my air cleaner pan. I also fashioned a 'dryer' from one of those pop-cap plastic bottles stuffed with sponge. The air passes through this before entering the air cleaner pan. I was also hoping it would stop the flame advance if there was a flashback. -Kinda like a pressure release system.
I spoke to my mechanic and he's saying I shouldn't mess with the A/F ratio, but if that's what needs to be done (since the car's not gonna do it automatically) then it needs to be done.
When I get around to the other vehicles which have computers in them, we'll see how things turn out.
I'd appreciate any other tips you can give me. Thanks!:D

Mileage without HHO is approx 27MPG.

[hhofox]

It seems that I'm gonna have to do some more home work on my engine/timing settings. I pulled a plug and checked it on Sunday - week 3 without HHO. To my surprise it was ash grey -which I learned meant that it was a tad too lean???
I was barely able to read the timing from the strap! It looked kinda like 20 on the plug chart below, but the ground strap was the colour of the porcelain.

http://www.4secondsflat.com/plug_chart.html
I guess I need to check out the reading which explains the plug colours again.
http://www.4secondsflat.com/Spark_plug_reading.html

Anyhow, I will report how the colour changes after HHO use.
Maybe I do not need to change the Air to Fuel ratio on my carb fater all, if it's a bit lean already.

[hhofox]

I was getting some GREAT mileage this week, until my reservoir developed a crack in it (brittle, I guess.) I am gonna try to salvage what I can of the mileage. I was at about 3/4 tank yesterday evening. Btw... I am usually at half tank about this time, but am at 1/3 because of the broken rez.:D
Gonna see what happens over the weekend -going on a trip over hills!

[hhofox]

Well, despite my troubles with a brittle rez, I ended getting about 28MPG -not bad, but it would have been better if things had kept up.
I almost got 29MPG travelling from St. Catherine to St. Ann with 4 full grown adults in the car -not bad at all. (That's a lot of up and down hill with no traffic. 600lbs extra weight and 2% impact on mileage per 100lb factored in.) Too bad the rez cracked again, so there was no HHO or about 1/2 the journey back. I will change the bottle his weekend -three strikes and you're out, right?
During these runs, the reactor was using 9amps cold.

Funny thing -when my rez ran dry, the car began to struggle going uphill (lingering in 1st and 2nd gears) like it used to before I started feeding it HHO.
Does this mean I need to adjust my air fuel ratio???

[mytoyotasucks]

I wouldnt adjust yet, try it out longer, without the extra weight, and see what u get.

[BioFarmer93]

Well, despite my troubles with a brittle rez, I ended getting about 28MPG -not bad, but it would have been better if things had kept up.
I almost got 29MPG travelling from St. Catherine to St. Ann with 4 full grown adults in the car -not bad at all. (That's a lot of up and down hill with no traffic. 600lbs extra weight and 2% impact on mileage per 100lb factored in.) Too bad the rez cracked again, so there was no HHO or about 1/2 the journey back. I will change the bottle his weekend -three strikes and you're out, right?
During these runs, the reactor was using 9amps cold.

Funny thing -when my rez ran dry, the car began to struggle going uphill (lingering in 1st and 2nd gears) like it used to before I started feeding it HHO.
Does this mean I need to adjust my air fuel ratio???

HHOFox,
Have you thought about fabricating a custom reservoir from some PVC pipe and fittings of appropriate size and shape to fit your available space? It's a heck of a lot tougher (it sounds like) than what you've had to replace twice now..

[hhofox]

mytoyotasucks
I'll definitely have to try it without the extra weight AND with a proper rez. I won't make any changes until I have exhausted the current possibilities.

BioFarmer93
I realise now that the bottle I am using is suitable for a bubbler, but not as a rez. The last time I used PVC was when I used to make wet cells. The thought of wet cells kinda irks me, but I'll need to make then again at some point it seems -rez and bubblers from PVC that is, not wet cells. Thanks for the idea.


For some strange reason, it seems like the car likes about 1LPM of HHO. I'll measure my current output today, then see what things are like after I replace my bubbler. I had an old radiator spill-over bottle, that I am gonna use. That should be more than tough enough. We will see.

I also have to check fr an oil leak. Since my oil level goes down by a little bit on some days, and not on others. Wonder if it's HHO related?

[Madsceintist]

fox;
Check the rear bumper near your tailpipe, is there an oily soot there on the bumper? If not check under the car really well for oil dripping(on the car not the ground). The only way HHO would have anything to do with oil burning is if you've had too much electrolyte or water getting into the cylinder and washing the walls, which could lead to damaged cylinders and rings. As long as you keep out excess water or electrolytes you wont need to worry over that.

[hhofox]

Thanks for the info Madsceintist. I will have to take a look under the car. I doubt that there is anything at the back though -but I'll still check, just to be sure. Some purple blaster should clean things up nicely so I can observe the undercarriage from then on.

Somehow, I feel that my AFR is set to lean at throttle though, since HHO feels like it 'completes' the car under pressuring situations (like up steep hills). The engine also vibrates a good amount when I start it in the mornings without HHO. I checked a plug chart and found that my plug strap and center were a too clean or pure grey when I drive in traffic. If I drive more at say 40mph more often, it gets a much better colour -like in the diagrams which indicat very good burn and timing. I guess I'll have to investigate it further.

As always, the floor is open for ideas/suggestions.
Can't get enough knowledge.

[Madsceintist]

As with the oily bumper near the tailpipe. That i didn't elaborate on is that if there's a sooty dark oily area directly around the pipe, then your likely burning oil thru the engine.

[hhofox]

Okay, time for some updates!
Checked for oil at tailpipe and found none -gotta check under the engine now.
Got 24.15MPG* last week with the cracked reservoir. (Think it was pushing 9amps)
Depending on the output of the cell, get better output with HHO off. Must find the sweet spot! (Car still feels great!-Even though it's running E10 -87octane)

*iffy mileage calculation. Why?
This week I ran into a bit of a snag. I MUST buy a set max of gas weekly. If I fail to do so, I lose the extra/excess for that week.
I filled the tank on Sunday morning, 1 week ago -but due to better mileage, I had to leave about 2/5 of the max. I then went back for the balance on Fri. Now, when Sunday came along once again, I filled up again, leaving another balance for this current week.
My question is: If I need to accurately calc. mileage each week, how do I do so, if I end up gassing the car twice -but only FILLING it once? :confused:

Method 1: (May, or may not be accurate.)
Add the two amts. (total gas put into the car) for the week. (Since the first re-fuelling was only partial and the second was complete.) Divide the total miles travelled by the total gas added and get the mileage (accurate or not?)

Method 2: Put the extra into a gas container and use it when...???? (This would simplify things.)

Which method would be better so as to get accurate results? Would the stored gas get stale if kept too long? I want my precious extra gas!

[mytoyotasucks]

Method 1 will work.

[Madsceintist]

My method for mileage is the best i know of since it measures by the gallon more precisely. I keep a gas can in the trunk that has exactly 2 gallons, per the pump at the station. My car holds 15.1 gallons per the manufacture, however I prefer that when i run the car empty(completely, as in run out on the road empty). Then put the (2) gallons in and drive to the station for a fill up. As well as the (2) gallons for the can. Which tells me that my tank holds the 15.1 gallons !!! As 13.1 in the tank and 2 in the can to have my spare. SO ..................... I drive until i run out ON THE road again, and thus i have an accurate account of the mileage I've driven per tank.... Every time.
If you go by the other method of topping off, you can't always be sure of how much you've used up to a specific point due to overfilling or underfilling. You shouldn't TOP off for a couple reasons. You take up the space that's meant for vacuum for the evap system, and if you keep that up you will fill the evap canister with gas, rendering it useless. Which in turn will cause you to consume more fuel(a small amount of vapor from gas will help to burn fuel better in the chamber then not, so don't take that away).

I've just bought a 2 gallon glass jug and will be using a fuel pump in that to measure Exactly how many miles per gallon that i can get with several different methods of using HHO and some other modifications. As to show proof I will be mounting this in plain sight in the rear seat area and it will be the only source of gasoline. I'll be using video for these new tests. So it may not be soon but will have something to show.

As i read those two methods i think neither !! If you don't fill up just partial then how much was there(do you know for sure) and how much was added ?? As well if you add the canned gas and your not empty then why ?? Also gas will store for months without a problem, just try to keep it cooler then not and sealed well. Staleness would be more than 6 months.

[Weapon_R]

My method for mileage is the best i know of since it measures by the gallon more precisely. I keep a gas can in the trunk that has exactly 2 gallons, per the pump at the station. My car holds 15.1 gallons per the manufacture, however I prefer that when i run the car empty(completely, as in run out on the road empty). Then put the (2) gallons in and drive to the station for a fill up. As well as the (2) gallons for the can. Which tells me that my tank holds the 15.1 gallons !!! As 13.1 in the tank and 2 in the can to have my spare. SO ..................... I drive until i run out ON THE road again, and thus i have an accurate account of the mileage I've driven per tank.... Every time.
If you go by the other method of topping off, you can't always be sure of how much you've used up to a specific point due to overfilling or underfilling. You shouldn't TOP off for a couple reasons. You take up the space that's meant for vacuum for the evap system, and if you keep that up you will fill the evap canister with gas, rendering it useless. Which in turn will cause you to consume more fuel(a small amount of vapor from gas will help to burn fuel better in the chamber then not, so don't take that away).

I've just bought a 2 gallon glass jug and will be using a fuel pump in that to measure Exactly how many miles per gallon that i can get with several different methods of using HHO and some other modifications. As to show proof I will be mounting this in plain sight in the rear seat area and it will be the only source of gasoline. I'll be using video for these new tests. So it may not be soon but will have something to show.

As i read those two methods i think neither !! If you don't fill up just partial then how much was there(do you know for sure) and how much was added ?? As well if you add the canned gas and your not empty then why ?? Also gas will store for months without a problem, just try to keep it cooler then not and sealed well. Staleness would be more than 6 months.

Excellent! Great minds think alike. I plan on doing something similar. External fuel pump connected to an external fuel tank holding approximately 1 quart of gasoline. Will be building soon once gen is complete.

[Madsceintist]

Because i see a number of cars and some times salvage a car or two, i keep some of the parts as spare or future use. I have several gas tanks with pumps, so I'm using an internal pump mounted to a lid for the glass jug. I'm running the original fuel lines through a hole in the floor for the wiring to the original tank into the back seat to the (new tank). Both lines and the vacuum vent as if it were the cars only tank, using the original wiring as well, so the car runs it the same. This may not be for anyone else to try but I'm using it as proof of no other fuel source. And it works well as a visual to see where my level is per mileage. Once done I'll have pics or video.

By the way this is a test car only and not just a family driver. Though it will be driven all the time. Its a donor from a customer for this purpose.......

[hhofox]

Okay! Madsceintist certainly lives up to his nam... oh! You said that you have a vehicle which was donated for this sole purpose! Now that makes sense.
Weapon_R, what's your situation?

Many thanks for the responses -I do value them all, because I can see the sense and logic behind them (and I soooooooo love it when I can be accurate.)
However, since this IS my daily driver/family car, I will be going with method 1 -as backed by mytoyotasucks.

It will be interesting to see the results of those tests Madsceintist.

[hhofox]

I forgot to add that I read a recently updated article on http://www.fuelsaver-mpg.com/how-much-hho-should-i-use which points out that you should shoot for about 1/4 of your engine's CC rating to get the most out of HHO.
I am very tempted to try it, since I find that my mileage is better with the unit using less amps -to a point. I am gonna try to find that sweet spot. For my 1.3L engine, that should be about 325MLPM (.325LPM).

I will report my findings after dialling in that output over the weekend. (I test via filling up at the same exact pump and gas station each Sunday morning-NO TOPPING OFF!)

Also, I wish I had extra cars and parts laying around, but I am a PC tech. My extra space is filled with computer stuff. Can't have it all can you?!

[Weapon_R]

Okay! Madsceintist certainly lives up to his nam... oh! You said that you have a vehicle which was donated for this sole purpose! Now that makes sense.
Weapon_R, what's your situation?

Many thanks for the responses -I do value them all, because I can see the sense and logic behind them (and I soooooooo love it when I can be accurate.)
However, since this IS my daily driver/family car, I will be going with method 1 -as backed by mytoyotasucks.

It will be interesting to see the results of those tests Madsceintist.

Have a vtec integra that drinks gas like a mother. Doing repairs on it. Will then relocate battery and install a small fuel tank in the front. Run all lines fuel and return to new tank. Will be able to easily monitor fuel usage. Also installing afr meter and exhaust temp meter. Also options for fuel control. Thats it in a nutshell.

[mytoyotasucks]

Well for myself, I use more HHO due to adjusting sensors to use less fuel so i can use more HHO.
Since I do not run HHO in the winter(eventhough this winter was and still is mild) due to freezing. My milage went from 24 - 26 mpg with to 14 - 20 without.

[Madsceintist]

My current method of measuring mileage per tank is in my Cavalier that's driven daily and a family car(racking up more than 3000 miles per month, every month). Being given to our daughter in a month. I've also used this method on my 97 Suburban 4x4, and the family van being a Merc. villager. Works without question.

The donor is a Toyota corolla 92 model 1.8 FI auto 4 dr. so the back seats going by-by. It has a distributor to help with adjustments. In tank pump which is a bonus. Injectors also help my plans. This was a customers car that his wife wrecked and i repaired, however he bought another car during the process and we made a deal for the car to be an experimental project. So long as i could return it to its original state some day. NO PROBLEM'O !!!!!

[hhofox]

Hey, does anyone else's electrolyte turn green? Mine is, and has done so in the past. Is this a bad thing? I am hoping it's not what I think it is!:(

[BioFarmer93]

Hey, does anyone else's electrolyte turn green? Mine is, and has done so in the past. Is this a bad thing? I am hoping it's not what I think it is!:(

Are you using any copper or brass fittings?

[hhofox]

Yes! Yes I am! My reactor's input and output are made of brass! So I guess it's cause of the reaction that takes place as the electrolyte comes into contact with these fittings huh?
I am guessing there are no bad effects right???

Thanks for the speedy response.

[Madsceintist]

It will cause a coating on your stainless ! Change them to stainless or plastic.

[hhofox]

Are you kidding!!??!?!?!? It coats the metal? But I have seen soooooooooo many reactors with them -and I JUST switched to them too!
Okay, thanks for the tip. Does anyone else agree?
(I can't find angular plastic fittings in my area -or it's surroundings.)

[Madsceintist]

Are you kidding!!??!?!?!? It coats the metal? But I have seen soooooooooo many reactors with them -and I JUST switched to them too!
Okay, thanks for the tip. Does anyone else agree?
(I can't find angular plastic fittings in my area -or it's surroundings.)


That green color is the oxidation of the brass or copper, copper will oxidize extremely quick. Brass takes longer but still oxidizes the same.

[hhofox]

I adjusted my reactor's output to approx .5LMP @ 8amps. I may just push it down to .325, but I wanna test out something first. That happens to be 2 things actually.
1. I attached the HHO output to the carb's ported vacuum intake, and the manifold vacuum intake so that it's always pulling HHO. I put a check valve on each line, as well as a control valve to regulate air flow. I will have to see how that turns out.
2. Gonna try adding another gas saving technology -Hydrocarbon Cracking System. I read a whole lot on it, and it seems to do a good job of saving gas while adding more power to your engine. Also, it's quite easy to set up, with room for expansion.

I'll be sure to report any results I have.
If anyone has any comments or questions, please feel free to post them!

[hhofox]

Hi everyone -it's been a long time!
I have been messing around with HCS and just now started adding back HHO into the mix. Man! I am loving this! I changed my amp draw to approx 4AMPs and it was like my gas guage got stuck for 40+ miles! I am still checking out stuff for concrete reports, so please bear with me. The electrolyte dried out of my reservoir and the mileage went back to normal, so I am keeping an eye on things this week.

Anyway, read on if you wanna hear about my HCS setup.

I have a Toyota 2E engine which uses the crankcase breather hose to push air from the top of the engine back into the air filter assembly. (My PCV valve does not do this to such a great extent, so I switched from it to the breather hose as my air input via a "T".) I use the vacuum port on my carb to suck in the cracked mixture, HHO gases, AND regular vapourized gas. It only sucks when I step on the gas.

I had a bit of a problem with using the manifold intake to suck in the mixture. Apparently it took too much vacuum to do so, because the car would not start after I filled the bottle(s) to 1/3. (Too much liquid to suck through???) It did start when I removed the bottle and let it just suck air though.

I am very happy with the switch! The car has more power, and it gets even better when I put two bottles in series. I actually plan to put two bottles on each system, the HCS and the Gas Vapourizer (just a simple gas bubbler actually) to see if it'll give the car wings! I am gonna use fine steel wool in the bubbler to break up the bubbles.
I will have to report the mileage with this setup this weekend.
It's easy to do, so give it a try and see how it works out for you.
btw.... the gas bubbler sucks the air from the atmosphere through a gas filter which I am using as an air filter.

[Gatech]

Yes hhofox, I got the best results at 6.5Amps (max) on my Carb 1500c.c . You were using a lot before, hehe I didn't see this Topic before, sorry.

[hhofox]

Hi, thanks for the info! How much does your reactor produce at 6.5Amps? Mine produces approx .3LPM @ 3.4Amps. It seems that yours should be good at approx .6LPM, right? Also, what type of fuel system is it, Carbed or FI? Do you use anything else to get mileage results? What type of mileage do you get?

[hhofox]

Hello everyone,
Hope all is well. I just thought I'd give an update to what's happening with the car so far, since I'm running HHO and the Hydrocarbon Cracking System.

So far, I have noticed that when I drive at speeds of over 80 KM/H for a while, then have to come to a complete stop at a light, my vehicle sometimes idles heavily, like it wants to stall. Once in a while, it does -but restarts very easily. I wonder if it is too much fuel, or too little, that is present.
I am thinking that it is too much, since this started happening after I got the systems working right. With HHO on, I even see water coming out of my tailpipe at times! When the car heats up, it wants to fly once it gets to 3rd gear!
Right now, I am trying to lean out my air to fuel mixture using the screw on the back of the carb. Screwing it in half a turn (more air, less fuel) seems to make my car idle a bit better -which is why I think it gets too much fuel with the HHO and HCS going. In which case, I should be able to lean it out even more -right?
I want to safely lean out my air-to-fuel mixture, but I do not have an Exhaust Gas Temp. guage!
Let me know what you guys think! Any input is welcome.;)

[Gatech]

Hi, thanks for the info! How much does your reactor produce at 6.5Amps? Mine produces approx .3LPM @ 3.4Amps. It seems that yours should be good at approx .6LPM, right? Also, what type of fuel system is it, Carbed or FI? Do you use anything else to get mileage results? What type of mileage do you get?


I don't know how much does it produce, but is like .6LPM, yeah. My car is 1976 Carbed, Gasoline. Only HHO, and leaned it a lot. OHHH also, I moved the time near to 0 (dead point).

http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=7689 If you want to read about my experience, and I have also a video of a cell (same as mine) at 17Amps in another vehicle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SmcFA05YG0

[hhofox]

Hi, thanks for the information. I finally decided to lean out my carb. I have been running HHO in ifferent quantities for years now, but I have been shying away from messing with my Air-Fuel Ratio. Finally, after much research, I have done it, and you know what? It feels better than before!
I have HHO,HCS and Straight Gasoline Bubbling running as substitutes for the fuel I leaned out.
What I did was let the car idle until it got to a normal temperature.
Then I used the AFR screw to lean out the mixture 1/4 turn at a time, until I heard a slight change in engine RPMs. (I allowed about 15 secs between turns to hear differences.)
As soon as I heard a slight drop in RPMs, I went back 1/4 turn -so it could go back to normal (just to ensure that I can drive with my devices disabled).
I then enabled my 3 gas saving devices.
That's all! If I was not running any alt fuel, I would have added another 1/4 or 1/2 turn.
I will have to let you know how things turn out. My base mileagle is about 25MPG with traffic, rough roads, potholes to dodge, extra people at times, etc. I can't wait to see how it turns out after this.
Things should go well -even if the wife drives! lol (She is a very good driver, but doesn't practice gas-saving stuff -especially when late! :D )
I'll keep you all posted.

[myoldyourgold]

In order to lean out a carb other than at idle you will need to lower the float and/or reduce the size of the main jets and or rods. To do this you need to know what you are doing and be very careful. Some carbs are easier than others. The older they are the easier they are. Unless you are doing a lot of idling the savings is very little to lean at idle. There will be some difference though. The problem with changing main jets etc. is if your HHO system brakes down then things will be to lean to drive very far without possible damage and it is more than just turning a screw to put it back to normal and unless you have a manual choke to richen things to get home you are stuck. With electronic fuel injection and the use of electronics all you have to do is flip a switch and you are back to stock. That is the only advantage of electronic fuel injection though and will not go into all the problems.

[hhofox]

Okaaay... so myoldyourgold, If I understand what you are saying, then this would mean that all I did was change the amount of fuel that my engine gets when idling, and NOT how much it gets when accelerating, right?
Since I am not gonna change the float or jets, then it seems like I need to do a bit more research, huh? I have an Aisan brand carb on my car, with only one screw for the AFR and one for idle speed adjustment so it's pretty straight forward and limited at the same time. I DO have a manual choke, so I appreciate the idea you gave wherein it could be used to supply extra fuel if required.
Funny enough, I also WAS thinking that IF you can deal with the electronics, an OBD1 car should be great for HHO and such forth. I guess not everyone can get the mileage that Wulfram on the FuelSaver forums got. Too bad he has not been around for years now -I wonder if he is okay?
These out-of-the-park fuel-saving heavy-hitters seem to disappear ever so often, right?

[myoldyourgold]

Not knowing which carb you have I can not comment on it specifically. There are some carbs that have a high speed screw that does change the fuel mixture. There are lots of tricks you can do to the carb though like shortening the accelerator pump stroke to put less fuel in because HHO if the right volume is being injected at the right time gives the extra needed HP. I have seen them disconnect the accelerator pump but this requires a sophisticated HHO setup with some smarts. The pump circuit is different and some if I remember do have jets that are changeable but my memory is not as good as it should be. LOL (if it ever was)

[hhofox]

Hi all. I have just finished updating my mileage info in an excel spreadsheet and I noticed something. It would seem that the best way to check mileage would be to take a trip along some long level roadway. Maybe a 50 mile run would be sufficient.
Why have I only now had this epiphany? Well, I noticed that my highest yield was from going on a long trip. This trip was done over HILLS, carrying over 500 extra LBS, but with very few stops and so on. Also, my bubbler was busted and yet I still got an 11% increase in mileage.
It is strange, but it's like the further I go, the better the mileage. Also, this applied to my other trips. It's like, they always yield better mileage than my regular, around town driving -even when one of my devices break!
As has been said many a time, the stop-and-go of traffic really kills the mileage!
This week, I only managed to get a 5% increase, but I was tinkering with stuff at times, so I will have to see how things turn out this week instead.
On another note: I made a GEET -style setup for my newest HCS bubbler.
I just took a length of 1/4" copper pipe, and put a ferrous rod with a pointed end in it, then strapped it to my exhaust manif so it could get that heat going all round it. I then attached it to my gasoline bubbler, and had the intake manif suck air though it. I think I need a compass to really see if it is doing the GEET thing though. Maybe I can make one to check.....hmmmm...
I will keep you posted on the results.

[hhofox]

Okay! So I have seen it for myself. Traffic does a real number on your mileage. I normally get at least 25MPG, but with my new setup, I was pushing about 40MPG. That was a good start.
I encountered only light traffic and had rain Sun, Mon, some of Tue, etc. I also had to do about 30 miles of extra driving in the heat-but it was highway. I even carried an extra person two mornings for about 21 miles in traffic. I have an annoying slow-leak that was not enough to be repairable the last time I took it to the shop, but has now become bad enough to have my tire almost flat by 10pm Thursday night. Maybe the fact that I had to carry groceries that day for about 18 miles made a difference with the tire. (btw....that's groceries for two families for the month.)

With all of this going on I only managed to get 28.66MPG for the week. This is on e10 87octane. IT would have been abour 30.1MPG if it was not e10. That's almost a 15% increase, so it's not so bad.
One thing I notice however, was that I had to "FIX" by two mini HCS bubblers, because they were sucking air, and only a bit of the gas (I had it set to suck the breather fumes instead of fresh air.) After I "fixed" the bubblers, my mileage started to fall noticeably. By Sat. I set the mini HCS bubblers to suck fresh air and the car felt even better than it had before. It's as if my car could not breathe as freely before, now, it's snappier and idles at a much higher RPM (I do not have a tach, so you know the difference must be considerable for me to notice it so easily).
All in all, the last half of the week was bad on my mileage, but I learned something and set it into motion this week so I will post those results when I get them.

My HHO unit started to give a bit of trouble on Sat., so I am not sure if it was even working the whole time. It was supposed to be putting out .325MLPM @ 3.3AMPS.

Bottom line: To see gains, I needed to lean my air-fuel ratio. Also, sending in HHO/HCS through a 'T' at the PCV/Air intake as well as through my ported vacuum connection made a lot of difference in delivery.

[hhofox]

Hi all, just giving a quick update. I have been doing a bit of reading and would like to run some stuff by you, but thought that it may need its own thread. So, please head over to the link below when you get the chance.

http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?p=51463#post51463

Thanks, in advance.

UPDATE:
It seems like this week is gonna be okay. Travelled 122 miles so far, and getting about 38MPG. I'll have to wait till I fill up on Sunday to see. Man can I feel the difference when I step on the gas! :D I think I can still do better, since the sun is really doing a number on my fuel when I park. I can literally see a difference in fuel levels. Need to shield that fuel tank or find shade all the time. Jamaica gets HOT!

[hhofox]

Hello everyone. Just dropping off some results after an okay week of driving. It turns out that with my current set up, my mileage went from 25.47 to 31.74MPG. So that's a 24.59% increase. Not bad, since that means I can get about 62 more miles from my 10 gallon tank -on e10 87 gasoline at that! For long trips, I should get at least 37MPG, based on trends which emerged from my spreadsheets detailing about 6 months of activity.
Anyhow, I just want to say thanks for the help you guys have given thus far.
I plan to combat the gas evaporation due to sunlight problem by moving the car to a cooler spot before the sun reaches the vehicle.
I am also trying out some more stuff before seeing how each system -HCS and HHO - stands on its own.
As always, I will post results.

[hhofox]

Good day all. I have another update.
I am up to 32.34 MPG. I did a few things to the setup. I also messed up the equilibrium on Sat. by changing the gasoline in my HCS. I had to set up the system a different way, but it may be better. Therefore, I am testing out HCS only this week. Maybe I'll try HHO only at some other point in time.
If anyone wants more info on my set up, just ask.

[dingo]

Good day all. I have another update.
I am up to 32.34 MPG. I did a few things to the setup. I also messed up the equilibrium on Sat. by changing the gasoline in my HCS. I had to set up the system a different way, but it may be better. Therefore, I am testing out HCS only this week. Maybe I'll try HHO only at some other point in time.
If anyone wants more info on my set up, just ask.

just curious...do you have the HCS connected to BOTH venturi and manifold vacuum ?
right now, i have one bubbler for each...no mpg report since by odometer gears keeps shredding itself !

[hhofox]

Hi Dingo! I am guessing that you are the same one from the HCS thread with Edostar, right?
Anyhow, right now, I have two HCS bottles set up. One goes to the Intake Manifold ( via a 'T' between the PCV valve and the Intake Manif. connection).

The other, (which I set up this morning) goes to my air cleaner pan via a connector I made in the side. I also put a cut-out cup-like funnel over half of the top of my carb's throat so it can suck in the vapours from my 2nd HCS bottle.

I hear you about that odometer problem. Did you change anything on the car, that would affect it?

[hhofox]

Hi, it's been a while, but things got busy. Hope all are well.
I am still testing out Gas Saving Technologies.
Currently, I have HHO and HCS off.
This week, I am simply vaporizing e10 gasoline, using cold air.
It's going into my engine via the Intake Manifold, as well as the carb vacuum port. I am hoping to cover the full spectrum of engine operation.
I re-located my bottles to the front of my car (right behind the bumper.)
I then removed all the input and output lines from the heated copper pipes.
I used only rubber vacuum hoses to route the gasses.
I have all air (input) coming in from the front of the car, at the bumper.
Things are looking good- drove 45.86 miles so far, and the needle has not even moved 1 gallon yet. It has been overcast since Sunday though, so better mileage is to be expected. (Heat really messes with E10 gasoline.)
My HOT gas week yielded 31.36MPG a 23.11% increase over 25MPG.
My MAX has been with HHO and HCS: 32.96MPG, a 29.39% increase.
I'll keep you posted.

[infoleather]

HHO What is the only way to do burn oil, if you have too much electrolyte or water into the cylinder wall wash...

[ultra_efficient]

Hello Everyone.
I need your input.
I have a 1991 Corolla Hatchback, 1.3L Carbed Engine with NO computer and a mechanical fuel pump. It runs well, engine has been overhauled, and so on.
I would like to know how you would outfit this machine with HHO if it was your car. I am currently calculating the base mileage without HHO. This is after it has been cleaned by an HHO unit running on it for a bout 1 year. :D
The unit puts out over 2LPM easily, and has 1 bubbler/reservoir, and 1 bubbler with Vinegar in it. Both bubblers are 12" in length and 2.5" in width.

Please point out:

Where you would let the HHO enter the engine (i.e: Intake Manif, or air cleaner, etc.)
How much HHO you would have the unit produce.
What tweaks, if any, you would make to the car's existing setup (i.e.: AFR adjustment, Idle adj, Timing adj, etc.)


This info will prove to be of help to myself, as well as anyone else with a similar setup. I hope to also do similar tests on a 1990, 1.5L EFI OBDII Geo Prizm. A Toyota mark 2 vehicle may be in the works as well, so your help would go a long way.
Let me hear what you all have to say, and we can see what comes of it!

pointers 1. port to each in take valve inside the vacuum as close as possible to each intake valve

2. supply 1LPM for each cylinder and 2LPM above 1000rpm to 3000 rpm, 3LPM above that.

3. install a EGT probe and gauge to know your EGT range and safe zones, install a AFC to take control of your AFR, install a AF ratio meter to keep an eye on whats going on. you can re-tune with the AFC and have fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpKeEEwGff0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5J6ESWmjGY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCxUbEqZ0XY

happy tuning

[hhofox]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the input thus far, it has been quite valuable.

In case you were wondering, I have been experimenting with various methods of saving gas -even though I have not been posting in this thread.

HHO has worked for me, and has lead me to seek other means of complimenting it. In fact, I have used an alternate means of saving gas, HCS, that got me gains of up to 37MPG (up from 25PMG).

For the HHO alternative, that can give even better results, at a much lower cost, and with safer, easier installation, check the link below.

http://www.fuel-saver.org/Thread-Hydrocarbon-cracking-System?page=90

Also, Google the "ELVIS fuel ionizer" for more simple savings.

I'll keep you posted if I have any more improvements.

[Weapon_R]

I am familiar with the ELVIS fuel ionizer. Can you say what type of improvements can be had with such a device.