Build Beginnings

[Havens78]

Is it the weekend yet?

I'm ready to get this thing started.

[BioFarmer93]

Nice rendering! What software is that? Looks good, and it looks like you're into some heavy- http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4NwP3wes4M8 :D

[Havens78]

Its Google Sketchup, just imported the 3 components from CAD and made multiples of them. I'm very glad to start finally, i've been designing and redesigning for around 4 months now.

[hhofox]

Hi, I wanted to know where you got those bottles which you are using for your reservoir? DO they come with the in/outlets on them, or would I have to make them myself?

[nofearakis]

Hi there,

from here:http://www.flambeaufluids.com
or here:http://www.usplastic.com/

[hhofox]

Thanks for the speedy reply. Too bad I am in Jamaica, so it's be a bit of a hassle to get these. Seems I'll have to keep McGuyverin' up them containers. Actually, I saw something promising which also has a pressure release outlet, so I think I'll have to work with that.
Thanks for the info none the less.

[hhofox]

Btw...what's up with your build?
It seems like you are basically strapping a set of HHO units together. What is your aim with this design, as opposed to the regular dry-cell sandwich setup?:confused:

[Havens78]

Btw...what's up with your build?
It seems like you are basically strapping a set of HHO units together. What is your aim with this design, as opposed to the regular dry-cell sandwich setup?:confused:

It is a unipolar design, will be hooked up in series as all the plates are power plates. 7 'Groups' of plates divide the voltage the same way that neutral plates do in the bipolar 'sandwich' setup. I'll have 5 plates in each group which will divide the amperage by 4 the same way 2 dual stack bipolar reactors would. I will have a separate reservoir for negative and positive groups to help with capacity and hopefully i'll have time to add in an experiment involving the ruskin patent. I may use the containers for the reservoirs or just use some 4" pipe that i have. But really i just want to get this built first.

Materials:

Containers and all npt fittings- Usplastic.com
Metal and marine board- onlinemetals.com
hardware (still in shipping) - mcmaster.com
4" abs pipe - local hardware
clear pipe - clearpvcpipe.com
weld-on - rplastics.com
NaOH - essentialdepot.com
EPDM Gasket material - local pond hardware store

[dixiepc]

Looking forward to following this thread.

[madman]

Havens,

Can not tell from the picture(no perspective i.e. beer can) what size the plates are. The open corners for access to the conn. for the plates is a nice set up ( mine were surounded by the HDPE dividers which was a PITA.

I am assuming you media blasted the plates. Wondering what amp you have calculated the unit to run at and the estimated LPM. Better to over size your wire and do not make the mistake I did which was use reg. wire. Use the multi (fine strand) copper like they use for high end car stereos. You will probably have to order the ring terminal connectors from granger.

Good luck, looks great

Madman

[Havens78]

Havens,

Can not tell from the picture(no perspective i.e. beer can) what size the plates are. The open corners for access to the conn. for the plates is a nice set up ( mine were surounded by the HDPE dividers which was a PITA.

I am assuming you media blasted the plates. Wondering what amp you have calculated the unit to run at and the estimated LPM. Better to over size your wire and do not make the mistake I did which was use reg. wire. Use the multi (fine strand) copper like they use for high end car stereos. You will probably have to order the ring terminal connectors from granger.

Good luck, looks great

Madman

The plates are 10-1/2" x 4-1/8" with an active area just over 27sq. in. I estimated 4 lpm at 52 amps, but I only need 2.85 lpm for the 5.7 liter engine it will be placed on. I'll be upgrading the stock 105 amp alternator to 124 amp just to handle the extra load if i'm able to use it. I have a lot of leftover 4 ga wire from my previous cell that was in the vehicle that i'll be using for the connections. All my power connections will be connected with brass threaded rod and jam nuts between the plates, it won't be fun spinning the rod down the line but I think it will be cleaner to have the wires only near the endplates.

[Havens78]

Frustration has certainly set in already, so today i'll be taking out my hhokitsdirect units and prepping the plates properly. Blasting/magnetize/weld-on/passivate.

I'm 5 plates in on my 35 plate unit, and i've already replaced 3 1/4" drill bits and a pair of shear bits. I'm bending the edges of my 20 GA metal more than I ever thought I would even during blasting. Any thoughts on how I could improve the life of my equipment? There has to be a better way.

[BioFarmer93]

Frustration has certainly set in already, so today i'll be taking out my hhokitsdirect units and prepping the plates properly. Blasting/magnetize/weld-on/passivate.

I'm 5 plates in on my 35 plate unit, and i've already replaced 3 1/4" drill bits and a pair of shear bits. I'm bending the edges of my 20 GA metal more than I ever thought I would even during blasting. Any thoughts on how I could improve the life of my equipment? There has to be a better way.

Yikes!
OK, here's what you do- hit a pawn shop and pick up a "Drill Doctor" sharpener and quit buying bits... Then turn the speed down on your drill press to the slowest set of pulley's, place a chunk of 2x4 under the tabs to drill them, don't drill them over the hole in the middle of the drill press table and use a couple drops of ATF with medium high pressure on the press arm. Can't stress the low speed enough...

[myoldyourgold]

Frustration has certainly set in already, so today i'll be taking out my hhokitsdirect units and prepping the plates properly. Blasting/magnetize/weld-on/passivate.

I'm 5 plates in on my 35 plate unit, and i've already replaced 3 1/4" drill bits and a pair of shear bits. I'm bending the edges of my 20 GA metal more than I ever thought I would even during blasting. Any thoughts on how I could improve the life of my equipment? There has to be a better way.

I gave up doing the plates along time ago and have everything done professionally. It ends up to cost a little more but worth every penny and if your time is worth as little as $1.00 an hour then you will be ahead. My time is only work FIFTY CENTS or less so had to have bigger numbers to make it worth while. LOL

If you have a blacksmith shop or other sheet metal type shop around have the holes punched instead of drilled. Most of them have big shears too and can do your shearing. I tried that when I had small numbers. It was not more than the minimum charge to have done what I needed.

[Havens78]

Thanks for the tips, i'll make some phone calls and see what I can try tomorrow. I'm taking a day off the build today.

[madman]

Haven,

When I started my 49 plate unipolar build I thought it would be so easy. I usually do not have much patience but I did with this. I even cut my plates including tabs (98). Just wait till you get to the elect conn. and the plumbing, 28 fittings just on the unit.

My advice is to take it real slow. Do what you can and leave it for later. No hurry no worries and you will get it done.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Maadman

[Havens78]

Yes it has been 6 months since i started this thread but I finally have some progress.

Its no longer a uni-polar build, but its getting closer to completion. I'm looking at a different use for the warped metal I have from learning how to blast 20 ga. But that will be another project to test.

Please be kind when you see how the slots were cut, these are experiments after all.

[myoldyourgold]

[QUOTE]Please be kind when you see how the slots were cut, these are experiments after all.[QUOTE]

I refuse to be kind just factual. LOL Great plate design. I have seen very few that have done it right!! You nailed this one.

[RustyLugNut]

[QUOTE]Please be kind when you see how the slots were cut, these are experiments after all.[QUOTE]

I refuse to be kind just factual. LOL Great plate design. I have seen very few that have done it right!! You nailed this one.

All that matters is "does it work better, and how much better"?

[Havens78]

All that matters is "does it work better, and how much better"?

My last reactor that I personally built and didn't buy and then have to improve was a switchplate wet cell. So i'd say this will work much better than the last reactor I built from scratch.

Hopefully i'll have time to port the inlet and outlet ports this week. They might have to wait until this weekend though.

[aceras624]

my best drilling is done with ICE CUBES. i push them into the bit where it makes contact. It improves the life of the bit tremendously. The drilll doctor is also a big help as sharper bit cut better. also lower your drill speed to reduce heat. seriously though. try ice cubes. I did 29 plates, 2 holes in each plate with 3x 1/8" inch bits and 2 step down bits :)

[BioFarmer93]

Havens,
You may want to re-evaluate the idea of going bipolar with plates designed for a unipolar reactor- there's going to be an awful lot of current leakage with those large and oh-so-nicely-aligned vent slots.. I realize you used Weldon around the holes, but that style of plate was birthed during a massive group-think session devoted to Larry's Magnetic Beastie design, a dedicated unipolar build that would be completely unaffected by intergroup leakage.

[myoldyourgold]

Bio the slotted exit ports with Weld-on even in a bipolar setup that are in line when run correctly have very little current leakage except at start up which helps warm things up sooner. A number of people have tried it and found it works very well. Some have been reporting extremely high results. If you remove the moisture they are very close to 100% Faraday. The amount of leakage is made up for by better gas flow. Bubbles stay smaller and move out very quickly with this design.

[Havens78]

Bio the slotted exit ports with Weld-on even in a bipolar setup that are in line when run correctly have very little current leakage except at start up which helps warm things up sooner. A number of people have tried it and found it works very well. Some have been reporting extremely high results. If you remove the moisture they are very close to 100% Faraday. The amount of leakage is made up for by better gas flow. Bubbles stay smaller and move out very quickly with this design.

No pressure to get this right then huh, hopefully it won't be 104 in the garage tonight and i'll be able to start work on plumbing the endplates.

[myoldyourgold]

LOL It was 114º F here 2 days ago and is supposed to get hotter today. It is muggy and has a 10% chance of thunder storms. So much for sunny California. I need to go home!! LOL

[BioFarmer93]

Bio the slotted exit ports with Weld-on even in a bipolar setup that are in line when run correctly have very little current leakage except at start up which helps warm things up sooner. A number of people have tried it and found it works very well. Some have been reporting extremely high results. If you remove the moisture they are very close to 100% Faraday. The amount of leakage is made up for by better gas flow. Bubbles stay smaller and move out very quickly with this design.

Wow! My world just shook.. Carter, can you point me in the direction of a couple of these? I can see it being greatly reduced (leakage) if a significant region (1"?) is coated under the slots since 1/8" plate to plate traverse is much less resistive than an up, over and down 2" journey, but I never thought I'd hear that particular info from your lips...

[myoldyourgold]

Wow! My world just shook.. Carter, can you point me in the direction of a couple of these? I can see it being greatly reduced (leakage) if a significant region (1"?) is coated under the slots since 1/8" plate to plate traverse is much less resistive than an up, over and down 2" journey, but I never thought I'd hear that particular info from your lips...

You are right if it is run in a flooded state all the time like most are but not if you do not. Keep the electrolyte level just below the port and it has no problems. You only need a lot of circulation if the reactor is being over driven. Just the moisture in the bubbles should be sufficient to keep it cool enough. In fact you do not need to circulate the electrolyte to cool. Just reduce the amps! That is one reason a unipolar reactor has an advantage. It can be run like crazy and even in a flooded state has very little current leakage. No need to shake your world just needed me to explain what I meant. LOL "When run correcctly" covers a lot of ground. Of course none of this works if the Moon is blue! LOL

[infoleather]

The open access conn corner. The board is a good set up (my surounded HDPE divider, which is a PITA.

[BioFarmer93]

What are you responding to?

[Madsceintist]

What are you responding to?

SPAMMER !!! A lot of them recently ................

[Havens78]

For an update this bipolar reactor is working very well. I reduced it to one stack for my 2.5 liter engine and even with 1/16" gaskets it is running better than I expected it to. The mmw rating doesn't concern me as much as i've noticed that i'm getting more gas out of this reactor than electrolyte flow. That is something i haven't witnessed before and i'm very impressed with so far as the unit isn't heating up even at higher amps than 1/2 amp per sq. in. So flow of gas is definitely better with the slot design, you just don't transfer as much electrolyte back into the reservoir and that can catch you off guard if you're not ready for it.

Even after running this reactor for over 13 hours i'm not seeing plate temps over 107 degrees F and electrolyte temps at 109 degrees.


Havens

[Quebecker]

For an update this bipolar reactor is working very well. I reduced it to one stack for my 2.5 liter engine and even with 1/16" gaskets it is running better than I expected it to. The mmw rating doesn't concern me as much as i've noticed that i'm getting more gas out of this reactor than electrolyte flow. That is something i haven't witnessed before and i'm very impressed with so far as the unit isn't heating up even at higher amps than 1/2 amp per sq. in. So flow of gas is definitely better with the slot design, you just don't transfer as much electrolyte back into the reservoir and that can catch you off guard if you're not ready for it.

Even after running this reactor for over 13 hours i'm not seeing plate temps over 107 degrees F and electrolyte temps at 109 degrees.


Havens

Thank for the update...
With my reactors, I noticed the same things as you (more than 0.5 amp per sq in. and low temperature

the key of the succes:
- configuration +NNNNN-NNNNN+
- SS316 plates 18 Gauges
- 1/16" EPDM gaskets
- media blasted plates
- staggered input holes
- insulated holes
- and good cleaning and passivating process