My First Build

[danser75]

Well guys, I have received my plates finally (at the cost of an arm). They are 6x6 with 1x1 tabs on opposite corners. They are 316L SS.

So I went and bought the other stuff I needed.

Then I spent 1.5 hours cutting rubber mat. It was easy at first but after a while that job really sucks. But now I have 18 6x6 rubber gaskets, 1/2 inch wide. some aren't so perfect, but I did what I could.

This weekend I am going to use a friend of mines cnc machine to drill the cutting boards. I want them to come out right and don't feel like using the drill press for the 108 holes and trying to get them perfect.

I have some pics But they are over the limits of the forum. Sorry guys. The pics are about 100 kb each. I will take more later at lowered resolution if you want to see it. I know this is not a big amazing unit but I quite proud of it.

[lhazleton]

Good to see you're making progress!:)
For your endplates, why in Gods name do you need 108 holes? 54 bolts?:confused:
And yes, cutting the gaskets really does suck. Seems like you keep cutting and it never ends.:(
To post pictures, merely open them in "paint" or a similar program and reduce them to a size that is usable here. Photos are the most important of the build!:D

[madman]

Well guys, I have received my plates finally (at the cost of an arm). They are 6x6 with 1x1 tabs on opposite corners. They are 316L SS.

So I went and bought the other stuff I needed.

Then I spent 1.5 hours cutting rubber mat. It was easy at first but after a while that job really sucks. But now I have 18 6x6 rubber gaskets, 1/2 inch wide. some aren't so perfect, but I did what I could.

This weekend I am going to use a friend of mines cnc machine to drill the cutting boards. I want them to come out right and don't feel like using the drill press for the 108 holes and trying to get them perfect.

I have some pics But they are over the limits of the forum. Sorry guys. The pics are about 100 kb each. I will take more later at lowered resolution if you want to see it. I know this is not a big amazing unit but I quite proud of it.


108 holes??? If you are still going with 6 seperate reactors with 2 endplates that is 12. If you are porting on both sides 1 in and 1 out that is only 48 holes.

[danser75]

I was wrong about the hole count. Its actually going to be 120 holes in 9 plates. I am using 12 bolts per cell and then there will be 2 cells with a solid cutting board between them. So they will be back to back. The rest the holes are for the hose connections. I have decided to go ahead and build the multicell and see what happens. I am excited to play around and see what works best. Of coarse first I have to get the plates conditioned. Oh joy. Its like when I got a new r/c car at christmas but my parents didn't charge the battery. I want to play with it but its not ready yet. :(

But in the long run i know its for the best. Otherwise I wont produce nearly what I could.

Also I am wondering what happens if you go less than a half inch on the gaskets? I know they would have to be perfectly lined up, But could I go with say a 1/4 in.? Just curious.

[lhazleton]

First off, you mentioned cutting holes in the plates. You're planing on the bolts going through the plates? If it's not too late, change the design so that the endplates are 2" larger than the plates an put all of the bolts outside of the plates. This will help any leakage problem.
Also, you don't need cutting board in between the 2 cell stacks. Just use a solid (no holes at all) plate with positive connectors. For example, mine is set up (cutting board -NNNNNN+NNNNNN- cutting board).
If you go with less than half an inch gaskets, you'll be kicking yourself in the a$$ when you have to tear it all apart and cut all new ones.;)

[danser75]

I am cutting holes in the cutting boards. We need a technical name for them so we can avoid confusion and extra typing.

I would love to use the same plate in the middle between the cells, Except I ordered all but 2 SS plates with 2 holes each in the middle. I did that so that I can build both a normal dry cell and the multicell out of the same SS plates. I want to be able to play with and test their outputs and power usage.

And the cutting boards will be 8x8 but the SS plates are made with tabs which transfer power to the rest the SS plate and along the line those fall on is the line I am bolting with. The SS plates are square with a square in each opposite corner x2.

I am going to work on getting my pics scaled down so I will try to have pics up today so you can see it.

But keep in mind the setup I am using for the multicell is: (+,N/N,N) (N,N/N,N) (N,N/N,-) The neutrals with a slash between then are going to be back to back and bolted together through the cutting board to allow the power to transition from one to the next but not the electrolyte.

Then the normal cell for test will be +nnnnn-

[danser75]

Well I have gone 2 tanks of fuel in my car and come up with the beginning base line for my car with no modifications just a normal tune up.

beginning mileage was 140537
Gasoline added 12.657
Ending mileage 140850
MPG (this was all mainly highway driving around 65 mph) 24.6 mpg

gasoline added 13.761
ending mileage 141127
MPG (City mainly, errands and to and from work) 20.1

This is BEFORE the setup is added to my car. I have not yet cut the plastic plates. I did passivate the plates yesterday. I couldn't afford to have them media blasted. But I did use an extra coarse wire brush attachment for the drill on them. I know its about the same as sanding but I will media blast in the future just running tight on money.

I passivated my plates first by cleaning then with degreaser and then with 70% isopropal alcohol then put gloves on and used 1/4 inch bolts through the power tabs and after sliding each plate on I fed a nut between them to keep an even spacing between the plates. I used the oven to keep it between 150-160 f. in a 10% by weight citric acid/ water mix. I used the oven to heat it up and keep it heated. I got everything up to temp. then started the timer for 45 minutes. After that I took them out and rinsed with gloves on and disassembled the bolts and nuts separating them.

I listed the steps for passivation I used for both suggestions of another way to do it and to give others an idea of the processes.

[myoldyourgold]

CLEANING PROCESS

Here is what I am doing now. I no longer use a passivation process even though this process does some similar things it is nowhere near the same. I run my plates through the dishwasher before media blasting or sanding. After media blasting I then run them through the dishwasher again, rinsing them twice after the final wash. I have an old dishwasher setup just for this to keep the wife happy. It is important to magnetically align the plates now and keep them in the exact orientation and order from now on. I now apply Weld-on 1802, which I like better than 16, on the ports. They are basically the same product but the 1802 flows better. When that process is done I wipe them down with acetone and back into the dishwasher with a double rinse. After the last run through the dishwasher I soak the plates in a 10% NaOH solution for 5 minutes and then wash them by hand in the same solution. Make absolutely sure they are absolutely clean of any oil. Use rubber gloves for all of this and never touch them with your fingers. Any oil will cause you lots of problems and cause foaming. You then rinse them in distilled water to remove any NaOH. Even though the D9 PDF uses KOH even Bob Boyce® now recommends only using NaOH which works much better than KOH for this purpose even if you use KOH later. Assemble the reactor and now run it at what ever amperage it takes to get the reactor up to a maximum of 130º F (54.4ºC). Run it like this changing or filtering the electrolyte as often as needed until there is no magnetic junk coming off the plates. Takes 3 or 4 days. Sorry about that but some take longer and need the electrolyte changed more often if there is floaters or other junk being formed. I use ring magnets on the input line to the reactor to determine when to stop. You might be over .5 amps per square inch during this process to get the temperature up but don't let that bother you. Just do not let it get over 135ºF. If the temperature wants to go over the 130ºF dilute the electrolyte to keep it at 130ºF. Do not use a PWM! You might need to increase the electrolyte concentration on some multi-stack large reactors to get them hot enough. When there is no more junk or metal you now need to drain and rinse out the reactor thoroughly with distilled water. I use a cheap Harbor Freight stainless steel 12 volt pump to run distilled water through the reactor and then through a 10 micron filter and back to the reactor. I let it run for about 5 minutes. You should do this also anytime you change or filter the electrolyte during the cleaning process. Next the conditioning.

Conditioning the Cells/Reactor

The conditioning phase starts with you running the reactor at not more than .5 amps per active area for at least 72 hours. Never allow the reactor to go over the max amperage. Better stay under it to be safe. This is important. The electrolyte concentration depends on your reactor size. Just make sure it stays within the .5 amps per active area. Flush out the reactor one more time after the 72 hours and if you had no junk being formed and no metal trapped by the magnets you are good to go. If you still have metal or floaters or brown junk still being formed you will need to go back and start all over by running the cleaning procedure again. Start by running the reactor at the 130º for another 72 hours or until it cleans its self up changing or filtering the electrolyte and flushing as needed. You will then need to start the conditioning again. When the reactor is will conditioned there is still a very small amount of metal that comes off but takes much longer than 72 hours to be visible. I use the magnets as a filter and clean that part of the input line whenever I see a metal build up. It ends up to be as little as 300 hours of run time and over 500 hours the longer the reactor is run, finally coming to an end. I suspect this is mainly because in the flushing out of my reactor some metal is still trapped in the bottom and finally works it way out over time and stopping almost completely needing very little attention after that.

This is very similar to the D9 PDF but not exactly the same and I thank any and all developers for there contributions to my procedure. I have found this to work the best at least for me after trying everything I have read about and a few other things that I dreamt up which I thought worked pretty good at the time but not as good as this does now.

[danser75]

Thank you for the info, you guys are all really helpful.

I did go out and cut and drill the cutting boards today. That was alot of fun. We used a cnc machine (ok I was happy I had never been around one) and we had to program it then discovered it was only big enough to do half the plate at a time. then it somehow went out of calibration. OOPS!!! After we got the bugs worked out though it was great just load the plate then once it stopped flip it, stop, change plates and repeat.

So I now have all these amazing parts and pieces That just have to wait till I have time to deal with magnetically aligning the plates. What kind of wire do you use for that BTW?

[myoldyourgold]

Dancer75, I still use a drill press but have had an accurate template made on a cnc machine and just clamp it on the material and drill away. I have pins that fit in the holes nice and tight so after two holes are drilled and pins installed, there is no way the two pieces can shift.

[danser75]

This is a great idea. If I build this design again I might do that. The advantage to doing it all on cnc this time was the cnc machine was inside in a basement at a buddy of mines vs. the drill press is in a non heated shed. I chose warmth. lol. But I have gotten all the reactors built and am working on the plumbing side now. I have 90% of the parts for it.

I have also chosen at least for testing to use an old radiator overflow tank from a pressurized system. I am currently soaking it with soapy water then plan to rinse really well then soak with baking soda and water for a few days, then rinse and soak with water for a day and then assemble and use.

I am going to use a manifold system the guys at my local hardware came up with to allow connections to be made and not drill the tank. In the future I will probably make a tank or get one from the suppliers I see on here but the budget is getting rather depleted so I had to find a cheap way out for the time being.

All in all I'm nowhere near done but I am making headway. I have a flashback arrester for it but I still need to buy and build the bubblers and then need to build the electronics and relays for the system. II am going to use a relay off the ignition to turn on and off the system with a manual override and make it so it can also turn off my efie when I get it.

[danser75]

Well I got the unit ready to install in the car. Before I did I wanted to check for leaks. I got a leak at every hole I had threaded. I used thread tape but the cutting boards I got were too thin and had warped and I didn't see it until a closer exam. I thought I would be ok with 3/8" but when I took out the hose barbs i found that the threads were very out of shape. So now I have to order 1/2" boards and start over. Just a word of warning do those who might see those $2.00 cutting boards at Walmart. They are not worth it in my experience. I have also gone back and made a new tank and manifold cause the setup I had first was too tall to go in the car.


Well I will keep updating as things change.

[danser75]

Well guys I have finished the puzzle that has become my dry cells. I have attached a couple pics. I also have the tank finished and the bubblers done but I am not so proud of them so I will see how I feel when I get it all mounted and running but I may just replace them. they are too short I think, about 11 inches top to bottom. I just used what I had laying around in the pvc dept.

But the groups will be assembled 3 in series. then 2 of those setups in parallel. But each group you see has 3 plates in it. This gives me a total of 6 plate gaps and the middle plate in each group has no holes in it. So there is going to be NO CURRENT LEAK! Each group has 2 ins and 2 out. Each cell will have its own hose connection to the tank.

I am fairly proud of this unit and would like to see what you guys think of it so far.

[danser75]

Well I have the groups wired and mounted, the tank built and mounted, and the hoses cut and run. I also got it all in the trunk and placed where I want it. All that's really left is to get the hose clamps on when they arrive and to get the port on the tank to fill the system finished up.

Then I will focus on mounting the electronics to control the system and the bubblers and run the power wire and hose line to the front along with the drain lines to outside the car.

I have posted a couple pics so you can get an idea as to how it looks in the car.

The tank is a little odd because I just adapted the old tank I built to accommodate the change in plans in the middle of the build.

[madman]

danser,

Do you have some type of safety devise like a flash back arester inbetween the bubbler and input to engine????

[danser75]

Well guys I got it mounted in the car for the last time and have most the wiring done. I now have a series of relays to control the unit as I want to try out a few ways of control it. I want to try putting a relay on the brake light that will power down the unit at a stop light thus I don't need to burn those amps during that time either. I also want to try having a switch on the gear shift for when I am parked for the same reason. I knwo there is a bit of a lag from the time that you turn power on till it starts really producing but I want to play with it and see how efficient I can make this whole outfit. I have a ton of relays around and just generally like to tinker. :D

I am also looking into a new tank as mine is just big bulky and in the way. Currently I have a tank too big to use a hose barb to collect the hho. A tiny oversight on my part. so its either build a new tank or modify the car to allow more clearance.

As for budget, now that I am close, original budget was about $350.00 ago. but I got to a point I just have to see it done and its still cheaper than the bars and its still too cold to kayak. :(

[BioFarmer93]

It costs a lot to build unipolar, doesn't it?

[danser75]

Yeah Gus, Its just a guesstimate that it cost that much over budget. But Also lets remember I started on a budget too low to build a bipolar, and have had to go back and rebuild main components several times due to poor planning of this and that. So I think I have done well.

But on amazon I found packs of 10 hose clamps stainless for 8 bucks with free shipping. I ordered 8 of them. That did save a bit. And I ordered my EFIE and Flashback arrestors on ebay. Along with the amp meter that will be mounted on the dash. Its a 50 amp digital meter and includes the shunt.:p

[danser75]

Well I worked around the problems on the tank and got the rest mounted in the car last night. I have employed a friend to work on this with me as it has become an insane amount of labor we kinda work from both ends of the car and see how much we can finish. but now the only thing left to do it to install the flash arresters and amp meter when they arrive and fill with water and NaOH. But all hosing and wires are run and in place for allt the connections to be made the only thing I will have to do it cut the hoses and place the arresters and plug in the wires to the meter. I hope to have a video by the end of the week to show it all working. Thanks guys for all your help and advice.

[BioFarmer93]

Well I worked around the problems on the tank and got the rest mounted in the car last night. I have employed a friend to work on this with me as it has become an insane amount of labor we kinda work from both ends of the car and see how much we can finish. but now the only thing left to do it to install the flash arresters and amp meter when they arrive and fill with water and NaOH. But all hosing and wires are run and in place for allt the connections to be made the only thing I will have to do it cut the hoses and place the arresters and plug in the wires to the meter. I hope to have a video by the end of the week to show it all working. Thanks guys for all your help and advice.

Danser,
I know it's a good feeling to be getting SOOO close to the finish line (believe me :D) but while you're waiting on those last two things to arrive, fill your system with distilled water and leak test everything. A bicycle pump will provide MORE than enough presure to show drips and air leaks (soapy water on the outside = bubbles) and will prevent one of those "OH SH!T!!" moments down the road... Please don't ask how I know this thing.:eek::o:(

[danser75]

Well Gus it wa sa good thing I heeded your warning. I filled with distilled water to check for leaks and before I could get a half gallon in it was leaking out :eek:

But it also proved that my drain works:p

I looked into the problem and it that I used the wrong type of pipe. I didnt do any research on pvc pipe before the build but it turns out they make cellcore or foam core pipe and solid pvc pipe. and the cellcore looks exactly the same until you look really close at the cut edge of it. it is a thin layer of pvc then foam then a thin layer of pvc. I never noticed a differance. But the foamcore will not seal the threads:mad:

So its back to the drawing board and I have now decided to just do a 18 inch piece of 6 inch and put the hose barbs in the end caps instead of the side of the pipe. One end will be in and the other will be out.

I will post pics when it is done. But let this be a word of warning. If you plan to tap the side of the pipe, Look at the type of pipe. It seems to show up at about the 3 inch and above pipe. Also I will have to totally remove the unit and install new hoses to accomidate a new pipe I think. This will not be a fun or easy fix. I hate these kinda problems.

But at least it was just water and for that a big THANK YOU GUS. I was in such a hurry to see it up and going I have the mixture of lye and distilled ready to put in and I was planning to fill with it once I got the flash arresters in.

[aceras624]

DAMN! hoses much?! :) Im concerned about the plumbing though. It looks like you tapped round PVC pipe. Did you glue the fittings in or something? I would have thought that would leak?

[danser75]

I have successfully tapped through the side of solid pvc pipe in the past on an rov i built a few years back. But yes this tank leaks due to the fact it is a foam core pipe. I am building a whole new type of tank to replace that one in the next week. I will post new pics when its done.

Also I have so many hoses because i wanted to try haveing no restriction on the cells for gas to back up. I wanted to try to avoid any aresa that might bring down production. Also it forces all the current through the plates and this way some doesnt get lost in the electrolyte.

[aceras624]

current gets "lost in the electrolyte"?

[danser75]

Well not really lost but just used to create heat instead of gas. That's why the wet cells are less efficient than the dry cells are. But in looking at my setup I am going to try to see what resistance the electrolyte has so I can determine what distance the hoses need to be so the current doesn't follow the hoses instead of the plates. So I am going to do a small setup filled with electrolyte and then measure the resistance, Then I am going to setup a way to measure the resistance of just the electrolyte at a couple given distances.

This is all because of the fact that electricity will follow the path of least resistance and therefore will try to go any way it can to avoid anything that will stop it. I am trying to get this unit as efficient as possible. Which is why I am going to what seems like extremes on alot of the pieces and parts of this. It is really no more than a normal unipolar build with a few more tweaks and a fair amount of my own personal flair:D

[aceras624]

Well not really lost but just used to create heat instead of gas. That's why the wet cells are less efficient than the dry cells are. But in looking at my setup I am going to try to see what resistance the electrolyte has so I can determine what distance the hoses need to be so the current doesn't follow the hoses instead of the plates. So I am going to do a small setup filled with electrolyte and then measure the resistance, Then I am going to setup a way to measure the resistance of just the electrolyte at a couple given distances.

This is all because of the fact that electricity will follow the path of least resistance and therefore will try to go any way it can to avoid anything that will stop it. I am trying to get this unit as efficient as possible. Which is why I am going to what seems like extremes on alot of the pieces and parts of this. It is really no more than a normal unipolar build with a few more tweaks and a fair amount of my own personal flair:D

correct me if im wrong, but isnt heat purely an issue with voltage?

also wet cells are less efficient because of the current they leach from their edges

I dont see the point in measuring the resistance as since the electrons in the steel are SOOO much closer together than the electrolyte the current will ALWAYS go directly through from plate to plate and never travel through hoses... i think :)

anyone smarter than me wanna chime in here. Gold? Bio?

[myoldyourgold]

Dancer75, How are you going to measure the resistance of the electrolyte? There is a method using AC but even that has problems if I remember. Current leakage in a unipolar reactor is the least of your worries. Even some gaps of electrolyte going out the exit tubes will stop it. The best is just to have HHO and moisture and not a steady stream of electrolyte. That is ideal though. You are right the farther it has to travel the less chance it will make it. Remember electrolyte is a great conductor though especially if it is at max strength.

[BioFarmer93]

correct me if im wrong, but isnt heat purely an issue with voltage?

also wet cells are less efficient because of the current they leach from their edges

I dont see the point in measuring the resistance as since the electrons in the steel are SOOO much closer together than the electrolyte the current will ALWAYS go directly through from plate to plate and never travel through hoses... i think :)

anyone smarter than me wanna chime in here. Gold? Bio?


isnt heat purely an issue with voltage?
Yes, and no.. Say you have a 5 cell reactor (bipolar dry cell) running at 10V & 10A - 100watts. It's going to run (if the area's right!) right around 100°F, maybe a tad warmer. Now if you bump the voltage up by a factor of 100, bump the amperage down by a factor of 100 (1000V @ 0.1A) you may get some production, but you won't get any heat, or 10,000V @ 0.01A.. Both of those are still 100 watts, but by virtue of some vague law of electrickery that I'm at a complete loss to remember and don't feel like looking up, that's the way it works.


also wet cells are less efficient because of the current they leach from their edges
True: In two different ways. If gas and equalization hole edges are not Weldon treated then current likes to jump through the hole from one side of a bipolar plate to the other side of the same plate because that's the shortest distance to the strongest source of opposite polarity. There is also, to a lesser degree, current trying to make it's way all the way through a stack from one end to the other seeking the source of strongest opposite polarity potential.


I dont see the point in measuring the resistance as since the electrons in the steel are SOOO much closer together than the electrolyte the current will ALWAYS go directly through from plate to plate and never travel through hoses... i think :)
Myoldyourgold has done a myriad of rather well documented (for him!;):D) experiments that show that this just is not the case. Visualize it- any time there is any path of conductivity available, a current will seek its opposite polarity potential, it's as bound by that law as we are by gravity.

[aceras624]

thanks for the input bio :) I knew youd have something good to say since this is a unipolar build ;) butt kissing aside, the resistance of the steel is less than that of the electrolyte do to the electrons being closer together in metals than in liquids right? If thats the case, why is there any concern that current would go in the opposite direction through electrolyte instead of through the steel plate? hmm i was actually thinking of a bipolar cell when i was just typing but I think its even more relevant for a unipolar build because of the +-+-+- etc

[BioFarmer93]

aceras624 thanks for the input bio I knew youd have something good to say since this is a unipolar build butt kissing aside, the resistance of the steel is less than that of the electrolyte do to the electrons being closer together in metals than in liquids right? If thats the case, why is there any concern that current would go in the opposite direction through electrolyte instead of through the steel plate? hmm i was actually thinking of a bipolar cell when i was just typing but I think its even more relevant for a unipolar build because of the +-+-+- etc

Ace,
Believe it or not it is actually less relevant in a well designed unipolar build because the arrangement is [+-+-+-+] [+-+-+-+] [+-+-+-+] [+-+-+-+].. and on & on. There is always going to be an opposite polarity plate of greater potential closer than the path up through hoses, through an electrolyte reservoir, back down another hose- to a weaker potential. This absolutely does not preclude the fact that any path between opposite potentials of any strength will at least have micro-currents running through them though. The idea is, through good design, make those unavoidable paths as highly resistant to current travel as practicable.
As for the electrons being closer in steel than in electrolyte- I really don't know.. I do know that 316L s.s. is a rather high resistance metal and 28% KOH e-lyte mix is a low resistance liquid, but to say that the electrons are closer in one than the other seems like it might depend on the mass of each ones conductive path a good bit as well. One of those thought experiments that I hire Carter for..:D;) -Or were you referring to the electrons of the atoms that make up the molecules of the two different materials?
Current going the "opposite" direction- I'm having a lot of trouble trying to visualize a scenario that that could happen in- did you have a specific example in mind?

[danser75]

I was planning to take a hose hooked to the system and pierce it the probes on my multimeter at right at 6 inches apart. measure the resistance. I have a very nice meter and figured I could easily do this then when I am done I will just replace the hose.

I know this maybe a waste of time, but if I don't waste time doing meaningless tests I would be done by now, saving a butt ton on gasoline, and be bored out of my mind.

I really enjoy all of the stuff I have done in this build. I wasnt planning to build a new tank but as long as I have to I figure I might as well play with a little more efficency if possible. I am also thinking of setting up a test with an extra cell I have to see if any current does get sent through the electrolyte by setting it up and sending power through the unit and measuring one probe on positive and the other diectly in a test tank. I would set it to measure for amps and voltage. I am just curious how much if any electricity is flowing around the plates instead of through them.

I also unlike most you guys have a 40 hour week and then have the rest the time do play with the kiddos and play on the hho project. I try very hard to not run more than 1 project at a time and currently can't afford to build the new tank. So I am mainly just entertaining myself. I share it with you guys because people ask and because I figure that its what the forum is for is to share our findings and research.

I know alot of you say its hard to find time to get to work on the units and play with tests, so I figure I can play with it and report back.

[danser75]

Ok so I built a new tank and it doesnt leak much but it does some. But the big deal is that almost all of the plastic fittings in the plastic plates are leaking. I used 1/2 inch HDPE cutting boards and then drilled with a 1/2 inch bit and used a 1/4 inch mpt tap. it called for a 17/32 inch hole but I used a 1/2 inch hoping for a tighter fit and it seems very snug but then I used about 4 layed of the blue teflon tape and it still friggin leaks. I am so fed up with this I am about to sell the whole unit as it sits. I want to know if anyone else has had this problem and if so is there a glue to use around the joints or how do I overcome these darn leaks.

[aceras624]

you could use weldon 16 if you dot mind that the fitting will NEVER come apart from the cutting boards. teflon tape should have been enough though

[iger13]

I use teflon (red) and it's fine.

[Bhart]

I have used gorilla glue on the fitting with success.

[danser75]

ok well while i have it apart i will use more teflon and gorrilla glue. I am just tired of almost getting done then finding problems. Thanks again guys for your nonstop help:D

[Madsceintist]

Ok so I built a new tank and it doesnt leak much but it does some. But the big deal is that almost all of the plastic fittings in the plastic plates are leaking. I used 1/2 inch HDPE cutting boards and then drilled with a 1/2 inch bit and used a 1/4 inch mpt tap. it called for a 17/32 inch hole but I used a 1/2 inch hoping for a tighter fit and it seems very snug but then I used about 4 layed of the blue teflon tape and it still friggin leaks. I am so fed up with this I am about to sell the whole unit as it sits. I want to know if anyone else has had this problem and if so is there a glue to use around the joints or how do I overcome these darn leaks.

Dude your not alone but i have learned something you will appreciate ............
Permatex joint compound !!!!!! Its at most auto parts places. Basically its liquid Teflon. You put it on every threaded fitting tighten the fitting then let set for at least 12 hours before putting ANY pressure on it and you WILL NOT leak. I use this for oil, coolant, air, anything and it never leaks. Hot or cold, and I've used it for years, and you can take it apart if you need! without breaking anything.

[danser75]

ok thanx i will check it out.

[iger13]

Dude your not alone but i have learned something you will appreciate ............
Permatex joint compound !!!!!! Its at most auto parts places. Basically its liquid Teflon. You put it on every threaded fitting tighten the fitting then let set for at least 12 hours before putting ANY pressure on it and you WILL NOT leak. I use this for oil, coolant, air, anything and it never leaks. Hot or cold, and I've used it for years, and you can take it apart if you need! without breaking anything.

Is it ok with KOH and NaOH?

[koya1893]

ok well while i have it apart i will use more teflon and gorrilla glue. I am just tired of almost getting done then finding problems. Thanks again guys for your nonstop help:D

I quickly read through all the reply onyour build, one I noticed was the leaks you are experiencing onyour fittings. The solution for that is: when you are tapping the holes for the fitting DO NOT run the tap all the way through the hole, go halfway the fitting will start then you will need to use a wrench to get in far enough to be tight. To help prevent the leaks, yes use teflon tape on the threads, then use some "gasket marker". you get this from a auto parts store, before you thread the fitting to the hole apply some of the gasket maker around the threads (apply it at the very first thread and up to halfway up the fitting. that way when you are threading the fitting on the garket maker is being pushed up making contact as it is being drive in.

The key to preventing leaks is when you tap the holes, as mentioned DO NOT drive the tap all the way through. GO HALFWAY then just go back and port to clean the threads you created. Also, you need to trim the fitting to the thickness of you cutting board, that way you can drive the fitting in and be flushed again the fitting head. How are you trimming the fitting to the thickness of your cutting board?

I am very busy these days or I would shoot you a video showing the tapping process and applying the gasket maker. Another thing I am using HDPE glue specially for this material.

[danser75]

koya, I did exactly that when tapping I only ran it to about 1/4 the way actually. just enough to give me a good tight fit but be sure it was lined up to the hole properly. As for trimming them I have an occilating saw that I use when needed but the fittings are just a tad under 1/2 inch long and boards are a tad over. But I did have a couple that were longer so I used the occilating saw by threading a piece of scrap cutting board and then cutting the fitting with it in the board.

Thanx for the info though.

iger I forgot till just now I dont think madscientist uses anything but just water. So that would require research before use.

[Madsceintist]

koya, I did exactly that when tapping I only ran it to about 1/4 the way actually. just enough to give me a good tight fit but be sure it was lined up to the hole properly. As for trimming them I have an occilating saw that I use when needed but the fittings are just a tad under 1/2 inch long and boards are a tad over. But I did have a couple that were longer so I used the occilating saw by threading a piece of scrap cutting board and then cutting the fitting with it in the board.

Thanx for the info though.

iger I forgot till just now I dont think madscientist uses anything but just water. So that would require research before use.



Tis a good point and I've been away a few days sorry!! I'm not sure but you could put some on a fitting then in a cup full of your electrolyte for a test ! Please let me know how that turns out, but I've never had a problem with this sealer and hot oil and transmission fluid under pressure tend to leak if they can. However they don't leak through this compound.

[iger13]

iger I forgot till just now I dont think madscientist uses anything but just water. So that would require research before use.

I know he uses only water, but maybe he knows anyway. I heard from somebody, that madscientist is very knowledgeable and experienced.