Creating an HHO research group - Need ideas and suggestions

[username4321]

I've been interested in this topic for a good while now and though I'm new to this forum I have been following the research on and off for some years. I see that a lot of people are interested enough in this to spend their time and energy on creating a solution but there is a major downside to this and that is many people are discovering the same failures in multitudes instead of singularly as would be the case in a more regimented study. I know a lot of this is the thrill of doing the research on your own but IDK if any one person is going to solve this unless they have a serious amount of time, experience and possibly money and or luck. SO my solution is as follows:

Create an organized research effort, much like the open-source software development (Linux OS), that will state the goals, efforts, method etc of the research and have assigned experiments to individuals with either the equipment or access to the equipment to do so. In addition, there may be some procedures and tests which are out of the range of the garage experimenter so these could be passed off to an assigned research group who can undertake the effort - this may need to be funded in some part by donations, advertising, future working product, plans, etc.

I don't know if anyone else here is familiar with the open source software movement but it has been a great success in creating one of the best, if not the best, operating system and software (in terms of stability and performance, not "popularity", available).

As research is done it will be published for peer review in both text and and video. Suggestions can be made, ideas review and refined and experiments carried out in the most efficient manner.

If this is done correctly I would think that it would be more than plausible for University and College students to work with us giving a MUCH needed boost to the development effort. With the availability to testing equipment and production facilities of the larger universities I would think that some would find this project worthy of joining and undertaking.

What do you all think of this?

[fv121]

hey i recently joined this forum, i am an engineering student currently working on testing the effects of Hydroxy gas in university as a final year project, and i do agree with you. i do hope people get into it and get the boost it needs.

[BioFarmer93]

Nah, we just want to flounder around in the dark and barely communicate with each other using our 286's running math co-processors.:rolleyes:
We already know what the problem is and it won't take a bunch of grant money grad students to solve it. What will solve the problem is a change in the money triangle between Washington/automobile makers/big oil. These failures you speak of are caused by automobile engine management systems that are designed to thwart attempts to modify their operating parameters.

[fv121]

i do think more thorough research and testing backed up by institutions would help, as at the moment a lot of people are sceptical about HHO, once it is accredited as actual hard science it will be easier to overcome these problems you mention

[BioFarmer93]

i do think more thorough research and testing backed up by institutions would help, as at the moment a lot of people are sceptical about HHO, once it is accredited as actual hard science it will be easier to overcome these problems you mention

So, what it really comes down to is that until all of the anecdotal evidence is "proven" by some phd's it doesn't mean a hill of beans, and will never be accepted by mainstream science? Again, the problem is not the HHO, it is the engine management computers and their programming.

[username4321]

Nah, we just want to flounder around in the dark and barely communicate with each other using our 286's running math co-processors.:rolleyes:
We already know what the problem is and it won't take a bunch of grant money grad students to solve it. What will solve the problem is a change in the money triangle between Washington/automobile makers/big oil. These failures you speak of are caused by automobile engine management systems that are designed to thwart attempts to modify their operating parameters.

Yeah, it's always someone else's fault. You seem to be the wet blanket of the group - ready to put people and ideas down while offering nothing in return. If you are the model "mentor" of this forum, I'll stay away from here. It's unfortunate because there seems to be some enthusiastic and talented people on this board but if you are the model for what people "look up to" then this forum and project are doomed to failure.

[BioFarmer93]

I'll stay away from here.

BYE! Don't let the screen door hit you in the ass...:D

[username4321]

BYE! Don't let the screen door hit you in the ass...:D

Wow, from a "Mentor" that is the best you could come up with? I see that you have been on this forum for 2+ years and this "project" (HHO) is not much further along than it was when you started! How does a person become a "mentor" in a subject which he has not obviously mastered! Talk about a ego! So MR MENTOR, why don't you take the reigns and put the proof out there to let the public know that this stuff is for real - or can't you do that? I don't know where your self righteous attack comes from saying University and college testing is worthless. I'd like to see you make it through this world without the inventions and discoveries which originated in a college lab.

So, Mr Biofarmer - lead the way oh wise prophet!

[myoldyourgold]

Username4231 Sir, Take is easy with only 8 posts to your name you have become an expert with the solution being an open source research group. If you had spent your time reading the last 100 pages and in your case maybe more you would instead of disagreeing with Bio be agreeing with him because what you are requesting is what this forum is about. I and maybe a couple others are working on patents and so can not get into some things until the patent is published. There are scientists, chemists, physicists, and a number of mechanics to mention just a few who have contributed to get us to the point we are. You are just a little behind so do some reading, build a reactor following the posted methods and you then can contribute too. Trying to form another research group when you have one with over 2500 members right here with no one's derriere to kiss or being governed by some radical political professor. I guess some need someone controlling them and telling them what they can do and can't do to get there creative juices flowing. LOL That wont happen here. You get to do what you do best and publish it or not. You can get help give help or just read and learn. If you do not like the way the forum works then I guess its not for you. It is like Bio says it is not HHO that is the problem but the cards we have been dealt and forced to play with. The current vehicles are not made to run with or on HHO but gasoline or diesel all being controlled by a computer. That is where the problem is. Some solutions are on the horizon though so keep watching.

[BioFarmer93]

Wow, from a "Mentor" that is the best you could come up with? I see that you have been on this forum for 2+ years and this "project" (HHO) is not much further along than it was when you started! How does a person become a "mentor" in a subject which he has not obviously mastered! Talk about a ego! So MR MENTOR, why don't you take the reigns and put the proof out there to let the public know that this stuff is for real - or can't you do that? I don't know where your self righteous attack comes from saying University and college testing is worthless. I'd like to see you make it through this world without the inventions and discoveries which originated in a college lab.

So, Mr Biofarmer - lead the way oh wise prophet!

Your first post and the presumptive arrogance it oozed determined my initial response to you. HHO is not a "project" by virtue of the fact that not everyone's end use of the gas is the same. I am a mentor because I have had the tenacity and interest to hang on here for more than 100 posts. No one has "mastered" HHO that I know of, though some have convinced themselves that they have. Going "public" with HHO has been tried many times, and I personally don't have the time OR inclination to attempt it myself- especially with the organized resistance to it. I am the furthest thing from self righteous and if you actually knew me you would realize that. Neither did I say university testing was worthless, I said it was unnecessary.
All you have done since I disagreed with your first post is to make personal attacks on me and belittle me due to my mentor status. Did you read the rules before you joined? That's a no-no, and it's almost the only thing you've done in this thread. I would caution you to rein it in a few notches, before you find that your IP address has been blocked, capiche?

[username4321]

Just because someone is new to a forum doesn't reveal any of the individuals past other than they have not spent time on the forum. For all you know I could be the admin of one of the larget Alt-energy/conservation forums on the net or a regional biodiesel producer with experience in managing projects - but all people seem to do is look at post count - such is the internet I guess. My tone was nothing but helpful until BioFarm started off with a sarcastic remark focused on about 10% of my OP of this thread. Instead of replying to the rest of my ideas he decided to treat the newcomer with undeserved arrogance and sarcasm instead of looking at the post and talking about the good and bad points of what was offered.

I don't see how suggesting a successful research and development model to a group of obviously enthusiastic people would warrant a sarcastic remark right off the bat. Please excuse me for not spending hours replying to newbie questions which are usually already answered in the forum somewhere. I researched my questions prior to posting and found them not on the board.

[myoldyourgold]

Username4321, What do you exactly want to do research on? The uses of HHO, types of reactors, how to use HHO, or what? Do you just want to prove it works or what are you getting at? Most of the above has been covered. You want to do research but on what aspect of HHO or do you want to start from scratch and do what has been done already again? Just trying to figure exactly what you are interested in.

The only reason we look at the number of posts is because there is nothing else to make any judgement on. Maybe you can enlighten us on your background or at least your interests in this field.

[username4321]

Username4321, What do you exactly want to do research on? The uses of HHO, types of reactors, how to use HHO, or what? Do you just want to prove it works or what are you getting at? Most of the above has been covered. You want to do research but on what aspect of HHO or do you want to start from scratch and do what has been done already again? Just trying to figure exactly what you are interested in.

The only reason we look at the number of posts is because there is nothing else to make any judgement on. Maybe you can enlighten us on your background or at least your interests in this field.

Thank you for taking a more open stance on this. My background isn't really as important as the ideas put forth. My idea, as is stated in another post, is to create a detailed thread, or whatever, that will list what has been proven to work , why it seems to work, what has been tried and tested etc. I'm sure a lot of this can be found throughout the threads but I wanted to bring it together in one location so it could be evaluated, expanded and used by those experimenting on this. I don't see the benefit of the 100's of youtubers duplicating the same experiement instead of an ordered research delegating research topics which could lead to a list of "do's and don'ts" of this process.

I posted some questions in other threads, which I didn't see answers to elsewhere in the forum.

If the goal is to get the most efficient, working model of an HHO generator - I don't see how doing the same experiment in multiples is of help. For example I'd like to see the output of a specific setup with various types of electrolyte at various concentration. Maybe run them over time and see how they do. What about solid plates vs mesh or wire? Dry vs wet? Stacked plates vs spiral/coiled. Pulsed vs unpulsed. high voltage vs low voltage. Etc.

I am still confused as to how the current and voltage are regulated in these setups. When I look at something like a car audio amplifier it will not run or draw current without a control mechanism (head unit) which will determine the volume which in turn determine the amount of current needed to draw from the system. How do these systems determine the electrical output from the electrical system? Is there any type of regulation in these setups?

These are just a few of the questions I can come up with off the top of my head. If there were a thread that had a collection of information about this topic which "newbies" could read (even if it were PAGES long) they would not ask the same question all the time nor would there be a need for these posts. I guess I just saw a need for an "archiver" of some kind that would collect the "discoveries" and deposit them in the same place, kind of like a Wiki page.

Does this make sense to anyone? I would think that this could easily be done with all the knowledgeable people on this site. Imagine person who had an extensive engineering and chemistry background taking a look at this project of accumulated data and seeing something immediately that his experience has taught him and said "well just add this, or try this" and it was something that significantly helped the project. That person might just pass all this over as they don't have 25 hours to review all the threads and see what garage experimenters have tried, succeeded and or failed at.

[myoldyourgold]

Well this is all good but most of it if not all of your questions and list of things has been done and has been posted. It just is not in one thread. By using the search feature you can find it though. You will first have to learn certain terms to find stuff. Because of the volume it is on a number of pages in a number of posts. Even if you put everything in one thread you would still need to use the search feature because of the volume. Once you get used to how things work you will feel more comfortable and be able to find things easier. Things like how voltage is controlled has been gone over many many times. This is basic in understanding how a reactor works. If I start explaining all this again I will be up all night. LOL This is why what you asked for looked a little odd to me because it is all here just not in one thread. Without the search feature you would be overwhelmed and even more so if it was in one thread. You might be able to summarize some of it in one thread but very hard to control. I think we just have to deal with what we have. Sorry but that is how I see it, not perfect but at least it is here.

[username4321]

Well this is all good but most of it if not all of your questions and list of things has been done and has been posted. It just is not in one thread. By using the search feature you can find it though. You will first have to learn certain terms to find stuff. Because of the volume it is on a number of pages in a number of posts. Even if you put everything in one thread you would still need to use the search feature because of the volume. Once you get used to how things work you will feel more comfortable and be able to find things easier. Things like how voltage is controlled has been gone over many many times. This is basic in understanding how a reactor works. If I start explaining all this again I will be up all night. LOL This is why what you asked for looked a little odd to me because it is all here just not in one thread. Without the search feature you would be overwhelmed and even more so if it was in one thread. You might be able to summarize some of it in one thread but very hard to control. I think we just have to deal with what we have. Sorry but that is how I see it, not perfect but at least it is here.

Well I guess I see how things are. What I find so strange and different from the open source software movement is that the people who are involved take pride in making the document's that I suggested and the experts, or "mentors", create them so all the new terms and such are available for the newbies - thus creating a MUCH larger userbase and a more inviting atmosphere. So you know where I am coming from, there are people who maintain the type of page I am discussing for years on a daily basis documenting every update, procedure, test trial, etc so that the new people coming in can get an overview of the process right off the bat. THAT is what a real mentor, teacher or master would do for their neophtyes.

Since you know that the voltage and current issue has already been discussed, could you maybe post a link to the thread. I did a search and didn't really find anything that looked like it was appropriate. I'd really appreciate it. Maybe I can start an overview thread to give newcomers a basic idea of what is and isn't.

[username4321]

Well this is all good but most of it if not all of your questions and list of things has been done and has been posted. It just is not in one thread. By using the search feature you can find it though. You will first have to learn certain terms to find stuff. Because of the volume it is on a number of pages in a number of posts. Even if you put everything in one thread you would still need to use the search feature because of the volume. Once you get used to how things work you will feel more comfortable and be able to find things easier. Things like how voltage is controlled has been gone over many many times. This is basic in understanding how a reactor works. If I start explaining all this again I will be up all night. LOL This is why what you asked for looked a little odd to me because it is all here just not in one thread. Without the search feature you would be overwhelmed and even more so if it was in one thread. You might be able to summarize some of it in one thread but very hard to control. I think we just have to deal with what we have. Sorry but that is how I see it, not perfect but at least it is here.

Just to show you what I was envisioning when I made the posts, I am showing you a link to a How-to guide for Linux installation:
http://www.mjmwired.net/resources/mjm-fedora-f7.html

This is one long page and this guy has done this for about 5+ years updating with each revision of the OS. This takes a lot of time and dedication by someone who asks for nothing in return but is only in it to truly help others while mastering the subject himself. I was hoping to find someone here who might have the same type of drive and motivation as he - helping people..

Either way I can say that I put forth the idea and that is really all I can do short of taking on the project myself, which would entail learning everything from scratch and I already have some large projects on my plate. Maybe there will be some "mentor" here who has the time and expertise to do something similar to this - that could generate a lot of interest in people who are newbies to the subject and don't know where to start. This type of thing is what truly makes one a mentor not someone standing on the proverbial soapbox (that was not a directed insult so please don't take it that way).

[koya1893]

Well I guess I see how things are. What I find so strange and different from the open source software movement is that the people who are involved take pride in making the document's that I suggested and the experts, or "mentors", create them so all the new terms and such are available for the newbies - thus creating a MUCH larger userbase and a more inviting atmosphere. So you know where I am coming from, there are people who maintain the type of page I am discussing for years on a daily basis documenting every update, procedure, test trial, etc so that the new people coming in can get an overview of the process right off the bat. THAT is what a real mentor, teacher or master would do for their neophtyes.

Since you know that the voltage and current issue has already been discussed, could you maybe post a link to the thread. I did a search and didn't really find anything that looked like it was appropriate. I'd really appreciate it. Maybe I can start an overview thread to give newcomers a basic idea of what is and isn't.

What you are asking for we (mentors) have tried to share the long list of test runs, do's and don't's. My problem with that is; everyone now you as well wants to come here after hearing about this and wants everything on the table without taking the time to use as sumple as the search function.

a lot of us here spend a lot of time researching funding it out of our pocket to move further in developing an efficient system. There is mentor who use to come to this forum, I can only guess why he no longer post. I for one has limited my post and with sharing. Because people show up in the forum looking to have everything handed to them.

If you've been tinkering and have something to share, do so. a lot have taken this process beyond their garage and got tools specifically to improve the process: like eliminating current leakage with "no holes" cell.

so why don't we start with what you have to offer, then we will jumped in to give you our experienced with it. In the meantime, use the search function. oh yeah, one thing to consider is keeping your system cool and run it brute force.

[hhoconnection]

I was hoping to find someone here who might have the same type of drive and motivation as he - helping people..

Either way I can say that I put forth the idea and that is really all I can do short of taking on the project myself, which would entail learning everything from scratch and I already have some large projects on my plate.

While I appreciate your enthusiasm, what makes you think that all of us don't "have a lot on our plate". Speaking for myself, I have spent many, many hours making videos for newbies, and answering countless posts and emails to try and help others. The other mentors of this forum have devoted hundreds if not thousands of hours of their personal time to try and help others so excuse me for being short but for you to come on here and imply that more should be done is kind of insulting. Talk to us after 3 years of doing this constantly and maybe you will understand. Just watch all of my videos and you will be up to speed enough. Then YOU can take on the task of compiling a database like you described. It sounds like the perfect job for you, and don't tell me that you have too much on your plate because we all do.

[myoldyourgold]

Since you know that the voltage and current issue has already been discussed, could you maybe post a link to the thread. I did a search and didn't really find anything that looked like it was appropriate. I'd really appreciate it. Maybe I can start an overview thread to give newcomers a basic idea of what is and isn't.

I did a search for "cell voltage" and got plenty of information.

Here are some terms you can search.
2 volts per cell
Neutral(s)
Stack(s)
amps per square inch
Bipolar
Unipolar
cells divide voltage
Stacks divide amperage
That should get you started

Of course watch Mikes videos too, they are a great tool.

[lhazleton]

You seem to be the wet blanket of the group - ready to put people and ideas down while offering nothing in return. If you are the model "mentor" of this forum, I'll

Holy sh*t, Gus! I go away for a week and you apparently turn into some kind of 'wet blanket'? Shame on you. :mad: Now, you just post everything that you've done in the last 5 years (complete with 8x10 color glossy photos with pictures and arrows on the back of each one, explaining what each one is) pertaining to your experimentation with different reactor styles. Also, put it all in one post and be sure to make it a sticky! No sense in making anyone else put effort into this research..........:rolleyes:

[BioFarmer93]

Yeah Lee, I'm afraid I'm just not much of a mentor or "mentor" (much more demeaning with the quotation marks). Apparently I should have been riding herd on you guys so that the Forum more closely resembles a wiki page for the convenience of impatient petulant non-contributory children that feel they are fully justified and indeed morally compelled to drop in out of the blue and chastise us for not having a format that appeals to them. What I'd like to know is this- who died and left me in charge? Can you believe his first post? Did I not exercise restraint in my response to him? Can you imagine the response had Nick delivered it? All of our screens would need replacing now... Then he says that I’m the arrogant one- LOL! Does this not remind you of a certain female that thankfully no longer graces us with her presence?

[lhazleton]

Does this not remind you of a certain female that thankfully no longer graces us with her presence?

LOL Gus, I totally forgot about Farrah. How's she doing, by the way? :D:D

[BioFarmer93]

LOL Gus, I totally forgot about Farrah. How's she doing, by the way? :D:D

Oh, same ol' same ol' dontchaknow.. She sent me a new viddy of herself...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UBNBfJjbBE&feature=fvsr

[lhazleton]

ROFLMFAO....I see she's calmed down quite a bit, eh? :D

[Havens78]

I always believed the definition of a mentor was someone that told you it wasn't a good idea to put the scissors into the wall outlet just before you did it. And every time someone posts a plan they have here to make a reactor all of the mentors chime in to tell them if it will work or how they can improve it before they install it.

If all units were created equal and one system worked for every application there would be no need for an online forum, we could simply have a bulletin board with a shopping list on it. Simply put every application is different and therefore you have to research on what do to before you do it. I'm still new at all of this but after 6 months of research on this forum I believe i have enough knowledge to start looking at builds for a reactor. Truth is, I never understood the process until i started doing my own research on this site. And you have to understand what you're doing before you build a reactor and try to put it into your car and expect results.

Why not try creating your own research group and then coming back to say hey can we bounce our results off the mentors on this site and try to see if there is a better way to do things? Really its hard not to have a small group like this if you talk about your interests with your friends and everyone tries something different and shares their results.

My apologies for the soapbox, but while the Mentors of this site where answering this topic they were not able to answer a question from someone starting to build their own reactor.

[koya1893]

Your dead on. One example is the used of Weld On 16 (do a search on it). If Larry did not post he was experimenting with it, we (mentors) wouldn't have tried it and found it to be useful, the same goes for media blasting the plates, having a longer bubbler, using NaOH vice KOH and of course the Unipolar cell, which I might add Bio is the MASTER on the design.

I can go on and on to prove my point that a "research group" does exsit (this forum). Now all the mentors popped in when a newbie shows up in here with great idea, not knowing that we've been doing it and have proven it does not work.
We pop in here now and then and share what we've been working on. Lately it's hard to do so because all everyone wants to do is seat and wait for the MENTORS to give answer to the most basic question anyone can asked about this process. All they need to do is use the search function and get the answer and then some (Gus and including me) I like to post photos.

Just received a PM, how he did a search and got the info he needs to build a system. so the search function works. After your build and your head hurts from not understanding what you did or did not do correctly. We the MENTORS are hear to save the day.

The small group of MENTORS in here are the reason the car company is making their system smarter because sooner or later we will overcome it again because we do share and experiment. Even with diesel with wide band oxygen sensors. Yes, I've cracked that nut already, 2012 3500 Ram with my system 5 mpg increase.

[sexyhyde]

I think the original poster had a good idea, BUT, from what I can gather from my limited research is while it would benefit the forum and Hho movement, in reality its a bit too much work for those experimenting with Hho systems.
Most of the mentors spend what I'm gathering are limited time tinkering with research and development most of which is done away from a computer. Any time at the computer is probably spent researching ways to refine their personal projects. And would rather do that than waste hours compiling all the info already contained in one place.
The research group would help in reaching Meyers esc technology (if its possible) but how do you factor in all the different tech everyone is using I wouldn't know where to start to achieve some kind of consensus.
What works for techies writing computer code doesn't mean will work for techies tinkering in garages and sheds.

[BioFarmer93]

-Even with diesels with wide band oxygen sensors. Yes, I've cracked that nut already, 2012 3500 Ram with my system 5 mpg increase.

WOOO HOOO, CHIEF!! Congratulations! I know that one took a while...

[Outmodeduser]

What works for techies writing computer code doesn't mean will work for techies tinkering in garages and sheds.

Pretty much. I think that OP here has a goal, but little direction. Its easy to organize and talk, but it takes a ton of work to actually do (as my limited boardroom experience has taught me). It would be nice to have a central community of HHO fungineers to get together, but I can speak for myself when I say, I am to busy to log in more than once a week here, I wouldn't have time to do that either.

[sexyhyde]

The thing is everyone seems to have selfish reasons to tinker with hho. Mainly save money. So the greater good of the Hho 'mission' comes second fiddle. Not to put anyone down here that does amazing and appreciated work by sharing what they know and or have learned along the way.

[sexyhyde]

The thing is everyone seems to have selfish reasons to tinker with hho. Mainly save money. So the greater good of the Hho 'mission' comes second fiddle. Not to put anyone down here that does amazing and appreciated work by sharing what they know and or have learned along the way.

[koya1893]

OP, here's a thought for you to think about, I for one is a "knucle dragger" as per my fellow mech in the Navy, hence electronics is not my best topic to talk about. What I've learned on the O2 both narrow and wide band most cars have today is from searching and talking to tuners around my area and those who specialize on certain vehicles.

The two months or so I've owned my Dodge I've made contact with diesel "gurus" specially the cummins, they educated me on the functionality of the wide band installed in my truck, confirmed that from the dealer close by. Hence I took a shot in the dark with the data I've collected and installed my system. I've not shared that here because I've only tested the truck with a stop and go drive for 250 miles. Going to a 1K trip over the week end for my second test. I will do this until I have hard core data to report to this forum, which I've done since I found this forum.

I've hesitated in sharing the design for my "waterless bubbler" because as mentioned a patent is being written up for it. Because it works in eliminating residue before the HHO enters the intake.

Everything else I've learned was shared and if you search my post you'll have plenty to build an efficient cell. If you don't have time to log on every week and when you can you don't have much time. Focus on what you want to know and search for answers, I can honestly say that every basic question one can asked about this has already been answered.

I am going to start a new post I recommend you keep an eye on, those MENTORS you were so rude to will probably jumped in to verify and support what I have to say in this post. So look it up.

[WildBill]

I like the idea. Like you I have been following this technology for some time. One of the things I find a bit discouraging is there are some many so-called experts online and yet few provide any research and results to validate their claims.
Personally my background is in Electronics Engineering and Computer Sciences. I have few unique technical solutions under my belt and know what it takes to prove a technology. I have little faith in most of the claims I read. I believe many just go with what has been stated as facts. Personally I refer to prove it myself using real research, experimentation, testing and plain hard work.
I have already completed several experiments and have hard results. Many do validate some of the claims while others clearly show different results. Here is a for instance. Many cell designers state that us must rough the surface of the cell to get good results. I have tested numerous times and can confidently state, roughing the surface does not provide better results/performance. At least not for the reasons being told. What it is is a crude form of degreasing the plates. My experiments prove that if I chemically degrease and clean the plates the results are measurable greater. I concluded roughing the surface is nothing more than a crude way of degreasing.
Here is another result from my experiments. Because my background is in electronics I take special interest in the power supplies. An early experiment I observed if I power the cell with mostly DC current, the electrolysis occurs on the surface of the plates. If I use a pulsed or alternating current, I observed the electrolysis occurs in the water away from the cells surface. What benefit either has I cannot say because I have not gone further in that experiment.
I have several other interesting results I would be happy to share in a forum with folks who what to do real scientific research. So count me in. I would note I have several friends with interest and have planned a website that will be used as a research repository. Once it is up and running I am willing to share with those who are serious. It is not intended to take away from this forum. It will be a private likely invite only site dedicated to HHO research.
Finally I did post another message regarding a strange phenomenon that occurred a while back. While testing a cell on a vehicle the cell all of a sudden began generating gas at a rate that I would estimate 100 times faster than anything I have ever heard of. The power supply and other variables within my control were constant. It lasted for about 30-40 seconds and generated more than 60 PSI in about 10 seconds. I am trying to figure that one out. May have stumbled onto something that could change HHO and the world. Who knows?

[BioFarmer93]

One of the things I find a bit discouraging is there are some many so-called experts online and yet few provide any research and results to validate their claims.

Wild Bill, are you referring to this forum or "online" in general?

Personally my background is in Electronics Engineering and Computer Sciences. I have a few unique technical solutions under my belt and know what it takes to prove a technology.

Wonderful! I hope you didn't just write in to brag and tease us with non-specifics... Also, what do you know about proving a technology that you feel may be new and different and work better than ALL the other people that have been busting their balls for years to prove this technology? Please, please share it with us. Are you familiar with Bob Boyce's trials and tribulations? If you believe you can do something to radically increase mileage with HHO for the masses and NOT experience one of those late night visits from unknown and unwanted guests, then I have some land in south Florida that I can make you an excellent deal on, please feel free to PM me with your account number... A plug and play system would never be tolerated by our government- they receive much too much tax money on petroleum to take a hit like that. I'm honestly not trying to be the "wet blanket" I was recently accused of being, just trying to point out some of the seldom considered reasons behind the way things are in the HHO world. It's OK, and they let us slide for the most part because they know (you realize that ALL HHO and alternative energy boards are monitored, don't you?) that anyone that wants a system in their vehicle is going to have to be motivated enough to do some research and then some building or buying, and then some installation and tuning- and lets face it, Joe sixpack and Mediocre Mack that comprise a good 90% of the American population are under motivated under achievers that aren't going to do the due diligence necessary to make one of these systems, or tune it and their vehicle to deliver what it actually can for them.

I have little faith in most of the claims I read.

Yeah so do we, but not "most", just some of the more ridiculous ones..

Personally I prefer to prove it myself using real research, experimentation, testing and plain hard work.

Yes, so do we- did you somehow receive the impression from this forum that such was not the case?

I have already completed several experiments and have hard results. Many do validate some of the claims while others clearly show different results. Here is a for instance. Many cell designers state that us must rough the surface of the cell to get good results. I have tested numerous times and can confidently state, roughing the surface does not provide better results/performance. At least not for the reasons being told. What it is is a crude form of degreasing the plates. My experiments prove that if I chemically degrease and clean the plates the results are measurable greater. I concluded roughing the surface is nothing more than a crude way of degreasing.

How closely have you read here? We don't say "rough" the surface, like that which would be done with a grinder or sandpaper, we say media blast the surface, which does increase the surface area by a great deal and creates millions of new bubble propagation sites which does increase the performance. As a crude form of degreasing it is massive overkill, as a method of quintupling surface area it is highly effective and there are documented results to prove it.

Here is another result from my experiments. Because my background is in electronics I take special interest in the power supplies. An early experiment I observed if I power the cell with mostly DC current, the electrolysis occurs on the surface of the plates. If I use a pulsed or alternating current, I observed the electrolysis occurs in the water away from the cells surface. What benefit either has I cannot say because I have not gone further in that experiment.

Yes, this result has been observed and documented here also...

I have several other interesting results I would be happy to share in a forum with folks who what to do real scientific research. So count me in.

So, by that statement you have just implied that:
A. You won't share your results here.
B. What we do is not "real" scientific research.
C. What YOU do IS "real" scientific research.


I would note I have several friends with interest and have planned a website that will be used as a research repository.

Obviously a "friends only" research repository available only to those that can tolerate the already demonstrated scientific snobbery that is sure to be abundant there, rather than the open source concept that we embrace here.


Once it is up and running I am willing to share with those who are serious. It is not intended to take away from this forum. It will be a private likely invite only site dedicated to HHO research.

Your assumption being that we are not serious simply because we dot not fit your preconceived notion of how research is "supposed" to look? -It can't take away from this forum, simply because you won't be open sourcing. -To be invited to your marvelous site, one must do what? Display credentials? Submit a resume with GPA and a copy of their doctoral thesis? Flatter you and kiss your ass just right?

Finally I did post another message regarding a strange phenomenon that occurred a while back. While testing a cell on a vehicle the cell all of a sudden began generating gas at a rate that I would estimate 100 times faster than anything I have ever heard of. The power supply and other variables within my control were constant. It lasted for about 30-40 seconds and generated more than 60 PSI in about 10 seconds. I am trying to figure that one out. May have stumbled onto something that could change HHO and the world. Who knows?

I think perhaps that a more likely explanation for this would be that you may have stumbled through a period of resonance, much like what Mr. Boyce is able to produce virtually at will, or it's simply virtual bovine organic fertilizer. (JMHO)

[myoldyourgold]

I suspect the BFM! It just is a good thing my flying cow was not successful and the doctoral research group dismantled due the the abundance of BFM. LOL

[WildBill]

First of all I meant online in general. Secondly I am More than willing to share my results however limited to those who are defile. Lastly because any real success risks being surprised, we need to be careful about how information is communicated. As I mentioned, I am planning a new site dedicated to researching and improving HHO as an accepted alternative source of energy. I will welcome anyone who is serious and wants to contribute. We will need people experienced in many fields. I hope my message is not viewed as a slam to this forum. I posted it here because of all I have viewed, I felt this one had the best members. Like I stated, I have already completed several months research on my own discovering numerous facts. Some confirm what is generally stated while other reveal something else.

[ultra_efficient]

Nah, we just want to flounder around in the dark and barely communicate with each other using our 286's running math co-processors.:rolleyes:
We already know what the problem is and it won't take a bunch of grant money grad students to solve it. What will solve the problem is a change in the money triangle between Washington/automobile makers/big oil. These failures you speak of are caused by automobile engine management systems that are designed to thwart attempts to modify their operating parameters.

ill have you know that i still have my first 386 33.3MHZ with 40mhz math co-processor and 16mb of memory, that's 4x4mb 30pin simms and a 40mb HDD before IDE (i dont remember the connection name) lol. back then the 3.5" floppy was the new media LOL. i have a ISA controller card, ISA creative sound blaster, trident 1mb videocard, 33.6kb US robotics modem ect... still in mint condition running Windows 3.11 LOL my first PC and i built it.

just bring back memories when you said "math co-processors" LOL

[BioFarmer93]

ill have you know that i still have my first 386 33.3mhz with 40mhz math co-processor and 16mb of memory, that's 4x4mb 30pin simms and a 40mb hdd before ide (i dont remember the connection name) lol. Back then the 3.5" floppy was the new media lol. I have a isa controller card, isa creative sound blaster, trident 1mb videocard, 33.6kb us robotics modem ect... Still in mint condition running windows 3.11 lol my first pc and i built it.

Just bring back memories when you said "math co-processors" lol

old school rulze!

[ultra_efficient]

The thing is everyone seems to have selfish reasons to tinker with hho. Mainly save money. So the greater good of the Hho 'mission' comes second fiddle. Not to put anyone down here that does amazing and appreciated work by sharing what they know and or have learned along the way.

i know what you mean, i am always outside the box and always getting put down because of it. i got banned so many times LOL i think this is my 4th account. people talk poop to me and i used to talk back poop to them but it only got me banned, nobody else. so now i just never mind them. just here to make the technology better and share what i know.

btw welcome to the forum. i am Richard