copper and gas? please help

[Wako216]

well first off thanks to all of you guys, just when i get a design im bout to run with i read something on here that makes me go back to the drawing board, surfice it to say when i finally do build my cell in the next couple weeks regradless of hho output it will be grossly over engineered lol i just got my nylon hardware, my plates have been done, just got a starter silonoid instead of the relay i was gonna use and a bunch of little things and oh yeah koh coming in mail this week, and a small fuel pump for cooling use,

well anyway im making a fuel cooler and wanna know if i could use copper with gasoline and also will our electrolyte be ok for copper and or brass? thanks guys

[Wako216]

anyone? please? is copper and gas ok? and is copper and electrolyte ok?

[justaguy]

The electrolyte will turn the copper green real quick and eventually eat it up.

[wljohns]

The starter solonoid is most likely not constant duty and will burn up. You need a solonoid out of something like a golfcart.

[BAD MEDICINE]

Copper will turn funny colors when used for electrolysis. Im not sure i understand your question about copper and gasoline...

[shovel52]

About the selonoid I tried two and both of them burned up. I am using a central air conditioning relay. It is rated for 24 volts ac. but works just fine with 12 volts dc. It's rated super high amps. lots of them at the junk yard.

[computerclinic]

Copper and the fuel line would be a good question, I would let a bit of both sit in a container over night and see if there is any discoloration as a test to see if it will hold up to gasoline.

As for copper in your electrolyte, thats not going to be a good combo. The plates will break down very quickly, and will also leave you changing the electrolyte every few hours of usage because it will turn to a rusty soup.

The fuel pump may be a cool idea for cooling. I have been thinking of a way to use SS tubing that carries fluid through the generator, but it doesnt move the electrolyte, just absorbs heat from the container and carries it off to a radiator from an air conditioner. I was toying with the idea of just water, or maybe an antifreeze mix. I would think that a fuel pump would be a good idea for this because it will be able to withstand constant duty and also provide a slow, steady flow.

I want to put the SS tubing BELOW the plates and far enough away from the bubble action so the HHO has no where to leak out from as it travels upwards.

[1973dodger]

Guys, I know most of us are just starting to assimilate our information and some have been at this for quite awhile, we go with what we have heard or read concerning a great many things concerning electrolosis. The fact of the matter is, electrolite or electrolsis is not what eats copper or any other material we use as our electrodes. The villian, my freinds, is oxidation, which is caused by oxygen, which is attracted to the positive electrodes or the positive side of our unconnected plates. Use copper as anpositive electrode and it want last 2 hours. Don't take my word for it, check it out for yourself, put a piece of copper into your electrolite water and leave it overnight, it will be just as shiny as the day you put it in, as long as your electrolite is not acidic, naoh or koh are not acidic. Now, construct you a copper connected negative plate w/ a SS positve plate to either side with the spacing of your choice and throw the current to it and watch the bubbles flow. The fact of the matter is, there are many half truths out there and some many opinions as to what works and what does'nt, so I encourage many of you, much smarter than this dumb old building contractor from Tn., to think outside of the box and prove what is fact or fiction. Does this little tidbit of information change the way we do electrolosis? Probably not. I personally think electrolosis is not the answer we hope for, though I do believe that hydrogen is. But i do know it helps with current flow and is less resistive. Less resistive, can help with heat problems. I guess the thing I keep preaching, is to prove for yourself, what works and what does'nt and post the results, so we can all benefit.

1973dodger

[1973dodger]

While I'm on my soapbox of mis-information. I have posted this thought on another thread and have gotten no response to it, so I will post it here.

Has anyone out there questioned why the hho coming out of your bubbler is only igniteable within a couple of inches of the surface of the water. The answer is, it quickly dissapates into the air, right. So why are we told to inject it into the air filter box, where it must travel a good 12 to 24 inches, before it reaches the intake valve. Would not the optimum location be closer to the intake valve or intake runner. Is not the trend, concerning newer motors built these days to put the injection point as close to the valve as possible, hence multi-port fuel injection, so would not the optimum location to be as close to the cylinder as possible? I don't think any of us are making enough hho to end up with run-away rpms. It's purpose is just a catalyst. I think this is the reason many of us are not seeing the improvements we seek. Either we need a higher concentration of hho in the air stream or we need the optimum location, or multiple locations, in which to inject it.

1973dodger

[justaguy]

I agree 73dodger, I know a guy that had an extra intake and he drilled and tapped each runner for a hho line. He said it made a huge difference. I partly agree about the hho disapating, thats why some recommend at least 1lpm. However, if your generator is producing it has some pressure behind it pushing the gas into the breather and there is a slight vacuum in the breather also.

BTW, Middle Tn. here, what part of Tn. are you located?

[1973dodger]

I agree 73dodger, I know a guy that had an extra intake and he drilled and tapped each runner for a hho line. He said it made a huge difference. I partly agree about the hho disapating, thats why some recommend at least 1lpm. However, if your generator is producing it has some pressure behind it pushing the gas into the breather and there is a slight vacuum in the breather also.

BTW, Middle Tn. here, what part of Tn. are you located?

I live in Knoxville. I would be interested to see if it made a difference in results. I feel much more than 1 lpm is needed to see significant results with current injection locations. The problem is, once you pull over 30 amps or so it becomes counter productive, in that the altenator becomes harder to pull. So we have to either make much more efficient cells or come up with some inovative ideas in charging up our systems.

[justaguy]

Yeah your right, that is the goal of most from what I have learned. To make more hho with less amps. Thats why most will agree now that its best to run 2 or 3 cells in series. This will make more hho with lower amps. I,m still learning though but a lot of it is trial and error and research.

[JojoJaro]

I live in Knoxville. I would be interested to see if it made a difference in results. I feel much more than 1 lpm is needed to see significant results with current injection locations. The problem is, once you pull over 30 amps or so it becomes counter productive, in that the altenator becomes harder to pull. So we have to either make much more efficient cells or come up with some inovative ideas in charging up our systems.

Hey, K-town here also. I'd love to see your setup.

[Wako216]

dammit you guys did it again im on my way to the scrap yard to look at old ac units lol, also im sorry for not being clear the copper line and gas thing was for a fuel heater i want to build (copper being ideal cause it absorbs so much heat) also i think im going to rethink my cooling system. i originally wanted to circ. the electrolyte through the whole system using incoming flow to move over the cells to help with bubble removal but now im wondering if this will impede hho production not giving the plates enough time to do there thing. what do you guys think? maybe placing the cell in another container with a coolant jacket around it? that way i can run an alum. radiator from an ac unit or a tranny cooler instead of making the stainless unit i had planned, heck, even using the thermal method then wrapping the lines with copper tubing and running the coolant through them to pull heat out of the return (to cell) line. let me know what you guys think do the plates need a certain amount of time to create gas or can you have a flow moving over them? thanks again

[Wako216]

lol oh yeah a special thanks to 73doger now im looking for an intake manifold to hack on... there goes my weekend

[1973dodger]

dammit you guys did it again im on my way to the scrap yard to look at old ac units lol, also im sorry for not being clear the copper line and gas thing was for a fuel heater i want to build (copper being ideal cause it absorbs so much heat) also i think im going to rethink my cooling system. i originally wanted to circ. the electrolyte through the whole system using incoming flow to move over the cells to help with bubble removal but now im wondering if this will impede hho production not giving the plates enough time to do there thing. what do you guys think? maybe placing the cell in another container with a coolant jacket around it? that way i can run an alum. radiator from an ac unit or a tranny cooler instead of making the stainless unit i had planned, heck, even using the thermal method then wrapping the lines with copper tubing and running the coolant through them to pull heat out of the return (to cell) line. let me know what you guys think do the plates need a certain amount of time to create gas or can you have a flow moving over them? thanks again

Wako,

One note, there is a chemical reaction which takes place between the electrolite and aluminum which causes the aluminum to absorb oxygen, so it is not a good idea to run your electrolite through your aluminum cooling system. You can do what I have done and run a seperate cooling bath outside of your hho generators in a larger container to house the generator as well as the cooling bath, just uses a container for your generator which transfers heat well, pvc or plastic is not the answer for your generator container. One thought I had, but have not tried, is to ground out your cooling radiator, thus having a neg. charge and possibly repelling the oxygen.

[1973dodger]

Wako,

I re-read your your post, sounds like your on the right track. Happy hho'ing.

1973 dodger

[Tkyn10]

dodger you gave me a headache ;) but i am now rethinking my hho connection to my car.

[Wako216]

sounds like were on the same page with that outside bath idea but i was just on online metals.com (great prices nice people) and found some ss tubing and was thinking of making some 1"x1" by say 8" end plates and use the tubing and end plates to make my own radiator, i know i know stop clapping lol... im thinking cooling the electrolyte directly will give me better cooling more fluid cap. and most important less parts that can break, now i just need to make sure i can weld .049 wall ss tubing my tig skills arnt what they use to be,

OH YEAH HEY what do you think about the return line coming in from the bottom of the canister onto the plates to help dismount the bubbles? if you move water over the plates to fast willproduction stop? maybe this ones for strat or dennis? thanks guys

[1973dodger]

sounds like were on the same page with that outside bath idea but i was just on online metals.com (great prices nice people) and found some ss tubing and was thinking of making some 1"x1" by say 8" end plates and use the tubing and end plates to make my own radiator, i know i know stop clapping lol... im thinking cooling the electrolyte directly will give me better cooling more fluid cap. and most important less parts that can break, now i just need to make sure i can weld .049 wall ss tubing my tig skills arnt what they use to be,

OH YEAH HEY what do you think about the return line coming in from the bottom of the canister onto the plates to help dismount the bubbles? if you move water over the plates to fast willproduction stop? maybe this ones for strat or dennis? thanks guys

Wako,

I've played with a pump in trying to create a water current to dislodge the bubbles and saw no real advantage.