New Member///New install

[TRANSIT_MAN]

Well Hi everyone im new here and new to HHO so please excuse any silly questions

Ok here goes....I have just installed a 21 plate dry cell unit along with a pwm & a amp meter :rolleyes:
Forgot to say its on a Ford transit 2.5 diesel non turbo recovery truck (weight 2.5 Ton)
I first installed it without the pwm & amp meter as the company i bought the Dry cell from said no need for pwm just run it straight (ie full power all the time) opps forgot to say it has a small copper coil to aid with cooling.
So first test run of 1 hour (with no pmw or amp meter) first thing i noticed was how smooth the engine sounded & also how little pedal i had to give her to move along in very low gear.
ok so back to yard and check over time.......
cables all ok
hho cell warm-hot

ok so now 2nd test

fit pwm & amp meter
Now to switch on and see what happens

I put the pwm on max (its a 30a model)
it read 10a cold going up to 16a after about 45 min

So now its time for a test run for MPG test...(before install of HHO mileage was 27-30 mpg)

ok so i hope i did this bit correct......i turned the pwm down until it was reading alternating readings ( 2-17-1-18- etc etc) checked that it was still putting HHO through system and off we go with a full tank (up to the lip)

I kept a steady 50-55 miles an hour and kept my foot held steady on the gas peddle :cool:

Did a 100 mile round trip (up and down inclines etc)

Returned and filled her back up to the lip

all system felt very cool


Did the maths...........result 42 mpg :)

So if any of you guys can tell me if i have done things correct let me know or can i improve things even more.

any advice more so on the pwm best settings please do so

Forgot to say im using KOH :D

[BioFarmer93]

T-Man,
Congratulations on your excellent results, and welcome to the forum.:D

[TRANSIT_MAN]

T-Man,
Congratulations on your excellent results, and welcome to the forum.:D

Well thank you :D

Next project is the wife's Dodge caliber 2.0ltr petrol ....jeez 23 mpg if you dont touch the gas and just push it :mad:

[BioFarmer93]

Not to sound discouraging but the caliber may not be so successful so quickly... It seems like anything with spark plugs and a computer is almost more trouble than it's worth (from my point of view only) but there are plenty of gas guys here that are working through it and seeing success.

[myoldyourgold]

T man, I have a few questions. Since this engine it not sold in the US I am not familiar with it. Does it have electronic fuel injection? If it does have electronic fuel injection what sensors does it have? Example MAP/MAF, O2, etc. On your test run which gave you good mileage what amperage was it running at? Do you feel any increase of HP at any rpm. I would be very interested if it maintains this good mileage over time. Now if it is mechanical fuel injection that is a different cup of tea. Either way you might be able to squeeze more out of it. One last question is what size are your plates? Keep us posted. Excellent work and welcome.

[TRANSIT_MAN]

T man, I have a few questions. Since this engine it not sold in the US I am not familiar with it. Does it have electronic fuel injection? If it does have electronic fuel injection what sensors does it have? Example MAP/MAF, O2, etc. On your test run which gave you good mileage what amperage was it running at? Do you feel any increase of HP at any rpm. I would be very interested if it maintains this good mileage over time. Now if it is mechanical fuel injection that is a different cup of tea. Either way you might be able to squeeze more out of it. One last question is what size are your plates? Keep us posted. Excellent work and welcome.

Hi :)
This is just a straight no fuss no electronic sensors good old diesel. I set it all up before i did the test run for best setting (long hose off the HHO out into bucket of water and played with pwm until the lowest setting could maintain a good strong stream).......I found that the pwm feeds it with a variable amp ie it changes very quick 1.2 a..7.3a..2.8 etc etc.....(system runs very very cool) I have it mounted behind front grill with a heat sink copper coil above......The HP was the first thing i noticed as it responds so much smoother with lots of extra torque with less throttle. The cell is Quad 7 plate design, a total of 28 plates configured +NN-NN+ . I am going to try adding a little more KOH and see if i can get a little extra out of it :confused: due to the fact it is running so cool......if it fails and runs too hot i will just drain it down and start again.

[Michael30.06]

Great results and very encouraging for those of us just a short distance behind your install.
Did you buy or build your cell form a kit?

[TRANSIT_MAN]

Great results and very encouraging for those of us just a short distance behind your install.
Did you buy or build your cell form a kit?

Hi
I researched for 2 years on HHO and like most read more "it dont work " & its a scam etc etc but then again anyone can buy Bricks sand & cement but not everyone can build a wall (you get my point).............and so i bought a kit from vada energy but i bought a amp meter & pwm as i wanted more control over the kit. Al the components i bought from Ebay & took me just under 2 hours to fit from start to finish :D.
I would say to anyone dont put it off give it a go but get all your components together and launch yourself into the install ;)

[myoldyourgold]

T Man, Does your pump have the ability to retard the injection timing by 1 to 1.5 degrees. If it does you should try this. You will then be able to inject more HHO and get even better performance and mileage.

[TRANSIT_MAN]

T Man, Does your pump have the ability to retard the injection timing by 1 to 1.5 degrees. If it does you should try this. You will then be able to inject more HHO and get even better performance and mileage.
I will have to look into that......I hope it does lol.....im more than happy how its gone but why settle for silver if you can have gold :)

Is the injection timing something you have done myoldyourgold ?

[myoldyourgold]

I will have to look into that......I hope it does lol.....im more than happy how its gone but why settle for silver if you can have gold

Is the injection timing something you have done myoldyourgold ?

Yes many times with excellent to mediocre results but always better. I must warn you to do a very little at a time. Some engines are very touchy. If it is to much it will be hard to start or worse will not start. I have not had a problem with 1º to 1.5º retard and have gone as high as 2.5º. Make sure you are retarding and not advancing the pump injection timing. Some pumps are not moveable and the timing is done on the coupler or gear/chain drive mechanism which is just to complicated and time consuming. On some engines it makes a big difference but on others it is just measurable. I am still working on much larger engines to see if with a reduction in the amount of fuel injected and a significant increase in HHO how much retard will be necessary and still be able to start especially in cold weather with direct injection engines and get gains with no loss of power. I wish I could say it is simple. It is not!!

It is all very expensive to change the volume of fuel injected. This requires some heavy equipment and removing the pump. Injector pressure also plays a part in all of this. I will be posting some interesting results in the spring after some winter testing in the frozen north.

[BioFarmer93]

Carter & T-man,
I don't know how many times I've remembered this only to forget it again when I'm in front of the computer, but finally the two coincide! A way to get finer fuel atomization upon injection AND slightly retard the timing is to have your injectors shimmed to raise the pop pressure by a few hundred psi. Almost any competent diesel shop can shim and pop-match your injectors for you. Some shops are too lazy to pop-match your injectors, and will tell you that it's not necessary. If you encounter this attitude just smile and say "OK, thanks", grab your injectors and find another shop. Usually it'll be an old timer that just looks at you and says "how close you want 'em?" To which you reply "Absolutely as close as you can get 'em, I'm tunin' for mileage". Don't mention the HHO because he may or may not think you're a crackpot and not bother to do a good job.;)

[myoldyourgold]

Here is one similar to the one I use. I do this myself. I picked mine up cheap at a farm sale where most people did not know what it was. Increased pressure increases diesel noise/knock and a decrease of pressure lowers the diesel noise. Bio is right about getting a slight retard by increasing the pressure. When you do both you must remember this.

[TRANSIT_MAN]

Here are some pics of the type of pump on my truck.....does it look as tho it could be retarded :confused:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORD-TRANSIT-2-5DI-FUEL-PUMP-/330654360003?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CommercialVe hicleParts_SM&hash=item4cfc8921c3#ht_500wt_1287

[myoldyourgold]

T Man, this pump is highly adjustable both for fuel and for timing. Here is a link for how to do it. I have not done one of these pumps but I am sure you can do just about anything with this puppy.

http://mebonty.monobasin.net/vepump.html

Close to the bottom of the page you will find this:


Injection Pump Timing

This task requires the following:

Appropriate hand tools
Manufacturer's special tools (static-timing adapter, dial indicator)
Manufacturer's service manual

VE injection pump timing is performed with the engine off. Despite the fact that it is used by several engine manufacturers, the timing process is basically the same. What must be measured is the amount of injection pump plunger travel at a specific point (usually engine TDC), Figure 35.

Prepare the vehicle according to the service manual. Check to be sure valve timing and timing belt tension are properly set. Remove the screw plug in the hydraulic head and mount the static timing adaptor in the pump, Figure 36. Rotate the crankshaft to the specified reading, then rotate the crankshaft (usually counterclockwise) until the dial indicator stops moving. Zero gauge the pointer and rotate the crankshaft clockwise to the specified position and note the dial indicator reading, Figure 37. (The reading should be withing specifications. If it is less than specified, timing is retarded. Greater than specified, timing is advanced.)

If it is necessary to adjust the timing, loosen the pump mounting nuts (bolts) and rotate the pump to the desired reading. Tighten the nuts (bolts) and check timing. Be sure to remove special tools and replace the screw plug. install any other components removed. Check the idle speed and adjust if necessary.

[TRANSIT_MAN]

Wow thanks for that info (and your time spent) Myoldyourgold I will look into getting the tools together and having a crack at it.

Ok todays update.............
I added another teaspoon of KOH flakes and made some of my pipe runs shorter.....went and filled her up with diesel and set off on the same run as the last time.......i set the pwm to max for the trip and it was peaking @19.6 amp.....Now today was bad weather with very very strong wind (not the best of days to do a mpg test :mad:)
ok returned and filled her back up again..........returned to do the maths ....

Now i was thinking that due to the driving wind & rain that i would have a drop in mpg :( but i got...........(drum roll please)........43.8 mpg......but what about all this extra heat that adding extra electolyte causes i hear about.......well it was all cool to the touch :D

So guys what do you all think......do i add a little more & go for gold or should i just call it a day.........im more of a if you never try you'll never know type of guy

[myoldyourgold]

Wow thanks for that info (and your time spent) Myoldyourgold I will look into getting the tools together and having a crack at it.

Ok todays update.............
I added another teaspoon of KOH flakes and made some of my pipe runs shorter.....went and filled her up with diesel and set off on the same run as the last time.......i set the pwm to max for the trip and it was peaking @19.6 amp.....Now today was bad weather with very very strong wind (not the best of days to do a mpg test )
ok returned and filled her back up again..........returned to do the maths ....

Now i was thinking that due to the driving wind & rain that i would have a drop in mpg but i got...........(drum roll please)........43.8 mpg......but what about all this extra heat that adding extra electolyte causes i hear about.......well it was all cool to the touch

So guys what do you all think......do i add a little more & go for gold or should i just call it a day.........im more of a if you never try you'll never know type of guy

Your very welcome. I would suggest you invest in a hydrometer they are cheap. This way you can share exactly how rich the electrolyte is and be able to duplicate it every time. This will also give us an idea on how much further you can go. By the way your pump is very adjustable and you can even change the volume of diesel injected to some extent and then raise the amount of HHO. All this has its limits though. Small steps until you find the sweet spot. Excellent work. Keep it up.

[TRANSIT_MAN]

Thanks again
on your advise hydrometer is on its way :D....i will post results when i have them. I understand that the magic number is 28 ? KOH :confused: Still trying to get my head around perfect amps :eek:

[myoldyourgold]

Yes 28 % by weight but on the hydrometer scale it will be 1.2609

http://www.handymath.com/cgi-bin/spcfgrvkoh.cgi?submit=Entry

[TRANSIT_MAN]

Your a star ;)