I've built my first HH Generator! Results...

[slimk]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10558638@N05/sets/72157606522453126/

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3043/2729673376_bc7aa84a6c_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3136/2728857223_76d8b7fc2c_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3193/2728847419_510bc490d8_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3136/2729695034_7e1397cd1f.jpg


I've used 2 Lock & Lock Containers [One to produce O, the other to produce HH] and connected them by 3 1-1/4 poly tubes that allow a free exchange of electrolyte between the containers.

I have a total of 10 Plates, 5 in each container with the spacing of a zip-tie/ss washer [not sure on the exact measurement], 5 Plates for [+], 5 for [-], these are 3X5 304 SS.

I'm using Lye Crystals as my electrolyte and RO water [no ppm of any minerals]. I have about 6-7 litres of RO water and about 8 tablespoons of Lye.

My Issues that I need help with:

-I can't get my multimeter to give me an amp reading, there are 3 DCA settings one that says 10A and either give me any numbers, so i have no idea what kind of amps im running at, im guessing not much, as the car battery is still fully charged after about an hour of running this.

-I'm getting fog/steam in the containers as can be seen in the pictures, it's getting warm but not hot, i can easily touch the bolts and plates, they are just mildly warm, although the air above the electrolyte is quite moist and when even slightly ingested irritates my throat bad [bad idea i know, i was just leaning over it/near it adding lye]

-I put an 8 foot output hose from the HH container into water to see if I'd get any bubbles, i've got NO bubbles coming through in all the time i watched it [about an hour, mind you i kept living the lid off to add more lye to see if it would increase production]

-The bubbles [as can be seen in the pictures] are forming on the plates and easily breaking free and rising to the top, but its certainly not as violent as i'm used to seeing on peoples youtube videos. Do I need to add more lye? Why are things getting warm without hardly any real production? too many plates, not enough plates?

I'd really like to get this thing producing some decent hydrogen, any advice would be greatly appricated.

[webeopelas]

Where is your negative connection in the container with the Positive clamp? Vice Versa on the other container.

If each set of cells only has one polarity, the current is having to travel all the way from one container to the other to make any HHO.

Also why only one output in the top? Hydrogen rises, so you would want to have an outlet from each container to get all of the hydrogen being produced.

Also looks like you have stainless washers between all the plates, that gives you more surface area, but eliminates any gas being created between the plates. The current must jump from one plate to another through the electrolyte to create gas.

So, I am new to this, but if you isolate the plates from each other, wire it with positive and negative poles in each container (Read through this forum for some of the best configurations), put in another outlet in the second container, you will dramatically improve your output.

[countryboy18]

i think slimk is trying to make H in one contanier and O in the other one. as webeopelas stated the current has to travel from the postive to the negitive plates. so by having the plates so far apart you wont get as much gas production. my suggestion would be to place both sets of plates in the same contanier but have a pice of plastic separation the contanier in half but leave room under the water for the current to pass from side to side the piece of plastic should extend like 1 to 2 inches under the water and then you have to have a gas output for the O and the H and then just use the h and releace the O into the air. i hope this helps in what you are trying to do.

[slimk]

i only want to fed the hydrogen to my engine not the oxygen, thats why im doing it this way. im letting the oxygen go free, thats why the lid isnt even on.


my suggestion would be to place both sets of plates in the same contanier but have a pice of plastic separation the contanier in half but leave room under the water for the current to pass from side to side the piece of plastic should extend like 1 to 2 inches under the water and then you have to have a gas output for the O and the H and then just use the h and releace the O into the air.

thats basically what i've tried to do, create one common area below the plates where electrolyte can easily flow from one side to the other, but allows the gases to collect separately...

if i just put up a plastic divider in the middle of one container it would be nearly impossible to seal the top part of it to be flush with a removable lid in a way that would stop all transfer of gases from one chamber to the next, thats why i tried this method but i guess there just isnt enough flow between them as it stands..

SO, can i just use more electrolyte to try and compensate for the distance or am i going to have a meltdown then?

[EltonBrandd]

I see a few major problems.
1. Plate spacing, you have the plates separated using a SS washer. So you basically have one positive plate and one negative plate.
2. The plates are so far apart that you will have massive amounts of lye to make the electrolyte conductive enough to work.
3. Your lids leak leak like a sieve, hydrogen is very small and will escape around the edges easily.

[slimk]

I see a few major problems.
1. Plate spacing, you have the plates separated using a SS washer. So you basically have one positive plate and one negative plate.
2. The plates are so far apart that you will have massive amounts of lye to make the electrolyte conductive enough to work.
3. Your lids leak leak like a sieve, hydrogen is very small and will escape around the edges easily.

thanks for responding

1...should i not have the ss washers in between, should they instead be nylon? i thought they'd need to be ss to get the full voltage to all the
plates, otherwise only the first would be connected, and the rest would be neutrals or really low voltage cause they'd have a little bit of contact from resting on the thread of the bolt.

so yes i have one positive and negative 'set' of plates since they all have exposed surfaces on both sides, i see bubbles coming off all sides of all the plates, just not a ton.

as far as spacing, what would you recommend is a better spacing, i figured they were close enough but not too close, and i figured it wouldn't mater much since its - - - - - not + - + - + where it might matter, they are all the same polarity so distance seems to be irrelevant, only the distance between opposite polarities matter, or so i thought..

2. when you say massive amounts of lye, what do you consider massive? the whole container, half of it, 10 more tablespoons? based on 6-7 litres of RO water how much more should i use...the whole container of lye cost 19.99 by the way. would seriously increasing the amount of lye ALSO seriously increase the heat in the unit, or would it just mean more production?

3. what leads you to believe that the lids leak? the left lid [oxygen] was not closed in the pictures, and the hydrogen was. i submerged the whole thing upside down in a large container of water to see if any bubbles would come out of any small seams or where i made holes and no bubbles at all came up, so im guessing its air tight and water tight, and thus pretty much hydrogen tight at least for the most part.

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question for everyone, how do i get a normal multimeter to show me the amps of this thing? it has a 3 DCA and 10A settings, none of which give me any useful numbers when i use it like the manual said to, in the path of the current.

[EltonBrandd]

The plate spacing comment was meant to say that the spacing was irrelevant because they are all connected physically. It is giving you more surface area only. The gas forms when the current jumps the gap from negative to positive. And I assume its leaking because I didn't see a rubber seal around the lid. To get the ammeter to work you need to connect it in series between the positive cable. you also have to move the red lead in the meter to the far left connection. Connect it in series and apply voltage, it it draws more than 10 amps your fuse will blow and your ammeter wont read amps until you replace the fuse. Good luck

[justaguy]

You also need to use nylon bolts. The SS bolts will still have contact with the plates making them all as one.

[slimk]

And I assume its leaking because I didn't see a rubber seal around the lid.

it does have a rubber seal inside the lip of the lid so its air/water tight, leaking is not an issue.


You also need to use nylon bolts. The SS bolts will still have contact with the plates making them all as one.

all the plates that are together are the SAME polarity, so arent nylon bolts counter-productive? im not going + - + - im going -----

-------

also, does anyone know what will happen heat/amp wise is i put a ton more lye in there? will it get out of hand or will it just boost production?

[JonDoh]

What you got set-up ain't gonna work as you already know.....

Your Anode & Cathode needs to be within 3/8" of each other to create the conductivity to seperate the two elements.

You cannot seperate HHO in one container & O2 in another containers such as what you have.

Both elements will travel side by side with one another for a certain length.

Lemme find the video on that.........

BE VERY CARFUL USING SO MUCH LYE!!!

[slimk]

Your Anode & Cathode needs to be within 3/8" of each other to create the conductivity to seperate the two elements.

i've seen other hydrogen seperator devices that have the + and - farther apart then that, and the fact that i get bubbles [mind you not as many as i need] proves that, so is just under 3/8" the optimal spacing?


You cannot seperate HHO in one container & O2 in another containers such as what you have.

Both elements will travel side by side with one another for a certain length.

why cant i seperate the h from the o, the o comes off the + plate and hh off the - plate. as long as the bubbles float up seperately why wouldnt it work?


BE VERY CARFUL USING SO MUCH LYE!!!

very good point, in fact im going to switch to another electrolyte since i need to use a lot of it...any recommendations? what if i used PURE vinegar and no water, what would happen then?

[Smith03Jetta]

I think some of the guys answering this thread are confused. You are set up just fine for creating Oxygen in one side and Hydrogen on the other side. The problem is that you are not using enough electrolyte to allow the electricity to jump all the way through the water.

I did an experiment this weekend using electrodes really far apart (7-8 inches) so as to get gas separation. You must add a Butt-Load of Electrolyte to get any decent amount of gas. I would suggest adding more and more electrolyte until you get the bubbles. 20 to 25% mixture is not out of the question if it takes it. There's still enough water in the mixture to make hydrogen and oxygen.

One thing you can do to make sure you are getting hydrogen... Don't slam me on this one guys. It's safe... Take both lids off your canisters. Get your propane torch ready. Light your propane torch. Turn on the electricity and as soon as bubbles start to form put your torch to the gas on the negative side of the system. If you get small pops or a flame or a flash across the surface of the water you are making some Hydrogen. Another indicator is that the propane torch flame will change colors from blue to orange. You can do the same thing to the Oxygen side of the system and nothing much will happen.

It's not safe to let the hydrogen build up and light a bunch of gas in a closed container. Don't light the end of the hose or some nonsense like that.

Pure hydrogen will not BOOM!!! like Hydroxy does. I showed that on my youtube video this weekend.

If you are not getting many bubbles, then your SOLE problem is not enough electrolyte.

In order to get the results you want don't worry about plastic bolts, plastic washers, narrow plate gaps or any of the things us Hydroxy people are saying. Separation is key for getting gas separation. Another way to get pure hydrogen is to make your negative electrode from Heavy aluminum and the positive from Stainless. If you do this in the same container or separate containers you will got lots of hydrogen and very little oxygen. The aluminum will eventually be used up in the process but that's another story.

[slimk]

I did an experiment this weekend using electrodes really far apart (7-8 inches) so as to get gas separation. You must add a Butt-Load of Electrolyte to get any decent amount of gas. I would suggest adding more and more electrolyte until you get the bubbles. 20 to 25% mixture is not out of the question if it takes it. There's still enough water in the mixture to make hydrogen and oxygen.

as you can see my electrodes are not even as far apart as you tried, so distance is not my problem, its not having a high enough concentration of electrolyte...

the problem is the containers are getting steamy, and the vapour from the lye/water mix is pretty bad to inhale or even be near, my throat started to go funny from just being in the garage with it [yes the garage door was open] so what might be a safer electrolyte to use in high concentrations?


Another way to get pure hydrogen is to make your negative electrode from Heavy aluminum and the positive from Stainless.

what do you mean by heavy aluminum, and where could i get some that would work as you intend? as long as its fairly cheap and will last a few months it might be worth trying...

[Stratous]

The only problem I see is spacing. Your anode and cathode are far apart and current is restricted to the small tubes they have to travel through. You could add lye until the resistance in the water stabalizes. Meaning, measure the resistance in the water, add lye until that resistance wont decrease anymore. You would do better to put the anode and cathode into the same container and seperate them with a plastic plate. That way you could have the plates close together but still have them produce separately. Thats alot of water too, I was using about 4 teaspoons in about a gallon of water which is about 4 liters.

[slimk]

Meaning, measure the resistance in the water, add lye until that resistance wont decrease anymore. You would do better to put the anode and cathode into the same container and seperate them with a plastic plate. That way you could have the plates close together but still have them produce separately. Thats alot of water too, I was using about 4 teaspoons in about a gallon of water which is about 4 liters.


Thats alot of water too, I was using about 4 teaspoons in about a gallon of water which is about 4 liters.

so you have 4 teaspoons to 4 liters and i have 8 tablesppons to 7-8 liters, i dont think i can add much more safely...i think i need another electrolyte for this.

a few questions:

1. will adding more lye continue to reduce the resistance of the water until i have 99% lye and 1% water or is there a plateau effect where no matter how much lye i put in its going to maxed out as far as hydrogen production?

2. how would you suggest i put a plastic plate in a device like mine that somehow seals at the top [where the gases would naturally accumulate before being taken out the hose] to not allow the gases to intermingle? i cant seem to come up with in my mind a way that would create a 100% seperation as good as ive created. [granted i have less production then i need]

3. isnt adding a lot of lye a bad idea, it seems to not be so good for injesting or being around in general, specially in high concentrations which im going to be forced to use, is there a better electrolyte for these high concentration applications? something that works almost as good but wont be harmful at all, like vinegar?