Spiral kit on vw vento tdi chips?

[Spen221]

Hiya to everyone, nice to find a dedicated hho site!
I have a vw vento on an "m" reg with the aaz diesel engine, at the moment I'm running two spiral wire cells one in a coffee jar and one in a large sweet jar, there both in the boot with a hose running through the car to the air intake under the bonnet. Both have kho added to de-ionised water and the wire is 316 marine grade. A couple of questions I have if anyone can guide me, one is does the fact that there is a long run of pipe affect the gas can it recombine into h2o? The other is are there any things I have to do to get good mpg from it such as chip somewhere (i've read mixed reviews of volo chips and such), I am planning to build a pwm so the heat may reduce at the moment I'm running them in series otherwise a 20amp fuse on the relay I installed goes pop! Any help welcome even ideal locations for the gas to go into such as vacuum pipes etc, thanks,
Spen :D

[lhazleton]

First off, welcome to the Forum.
I don't know exactly where to start:
1) Spiral cells are inefficient BOMBS waiting to explode. If you want to build something that will actually work properly, build a drycell reactor.
2) Being a diesel, it shouldn't need any chips.
3) A PWM won't help anything. A wet cell will run hot due to its nature as a power-robbing steam machine.
4) Never hook the pipe to a vacuum source. HHO should be ported as close to the front of the throttle body as possible.
5) Running the pipe from the boot to the engine compartment is fine if there is no room under the bonnett.
6) Do lots of research. We don't want to see anyone getting hurt.

[BioFarmer93]

Spot on Lee!
Especially #6...

[Spen221]

thanks, there was me thinking spiral designs were good, it is two helix's running in parallel one neg one poss, makes sense tho- I had a small plate design before running in a coffee jar and it seemed to improve mpg. Any idea where to source some decent quality stainless plate?
I used some door push plates before and they seemed effective but did make a mess I think that was more due to the baking soda being very corrosive though!

[Spen221]

nearly forgot i'm uk based for any stainless ideas :D

[lhazleton]

Why not attach some pictures?

[mattsimis]

2) Being a diesel, it shouldn't need any chips.

4) Never hook the pipe to a vacuum source. HHO should be ported as close to the front of the throttle body as possible.

Im confused, diesels dont have Throttle bodys (apart from some odd brand new ones). The piping going into the inlet will be under positive pressure thanks to the turbo, should the HHO inlet be here (surely the pressure would blow back the HHO) or should it be right after the air filter, which I would have thought would have been under some sort of vacuum as the turbo is spinning up?

[myoldyourgold]

Im confused, diesels dont have Throttle bodys (apart from some odd brand new ones). The piping going into the inlet will be under positive pressure thanks to the turbo, should the HHO inlet be here (surely the pressure would blow back the HHO) or should it be right after the air filter, which I would have thought would have been under some sort of vacuum as the turbo is spinning up?

Yes you are confused. Some diesels do have throttle bodies. My 1984 Mercedes turbo does, and my 1989 Hino no turbo does, the Perkins 6 P6 in a lot of farm equipment does. I can list others too.

There is a port on some diesels that has a slight vacuum created by the venturi in some throttle bodies that can be used to inject HHO in. It has low vacuum at idle and gets higher as rpm is increased. The same port is on some gas engines and if you know what you are doing can also be used. The gas vehicles vacuum is much stronger so if you do it wrong it will suck the liquid out of your bubbler so do some research before you try it.

You are right about after the turbo but there is at least one patent I am aware of that makes a reactor and system that does inject after the turbo. I will post it if I can find where I filed it. It is a Canadian company as I remember. Very complex and not worth the expense with all the safety things required with the HHO under pressure and still very risky.

The safest place is just before the air cleaner so the air cleaner works as a filter for any electrolyte that made it past the bubbler but not the most effective.

[mattsimis]

The safest place is just before the air cleaner so the air cleaner works as a filter for any electrolyte that made it past the bubbler but not the most effective.

Any concern with the HHO and "whatever" it may carry negatively impacting sensitive MAF wires/plates with that approach?

[myoldyourgold]

Any concern with the HHO and "whatever" it may carry negatively impacting sensitive MAF wires/plates with that approach?

There could be if you were injecting a large volume or electrolyte poulited HHO, but with the normal amount of .5 lpm per liter of engine size in a gasoline powered vehicle, there should be no problem. The volume of air compared to that small amount of HHO volume is like a drop in a bucket. If your MAF is located before the air cleaner and you injected before it then there could be a problem if there is no air cleaner between the MAF and where you are injecting then you should inject after the MAF. It should be after the air cleaner. Now on the other side of the coin..... if your gas is clean enough of electrolyte, you will have better results to inject it as close to the throttle body as you can. This gives the best results but the HHO needs to be clean or your throttle body will get coated with KOH/NaOH powder and cause it to start sticking and destroy it. No fun with a stuck wide open throttle!! There could be damage to the MAF if injected before it. Some cars use a MAP sensor and not the MAF and even I confuse them. They do a similar job.

Lee here is a good chance to post your picture again. LOL

Bottom line is to have clean gas and then inject it as close to where it is going to get used as possible but still before the throttle body. There is more options but are more complicated. Some MAF's might be built into the throttle body if I remember correctly so you need to be careful.

The MAF having a heating circuit cause some people to think the HHO could ignite but it is so diluted that I have not seen that happen. If this bothers you and your gas is clean then after the MAF and as close to the throttle body is the best place.

[lhazleton]

Lee here is a good chance to post your picture again. LOL


OK Carter, here ya go. I must have posted these 50 times in the last couple of years.:D
MAF sensor after running an inadequate bubbler:

[BioFarmer93]

OK Carter, here ya go. I must have posted these 50 times in the last couple of years.:D
MAF sensor after running an inadequate bubbler:

EEeewwwwww! :eek:;)