Build with stuff around the house

[hypertek]

Hey guys, new here, just been trying to learn all i can. Really want to dip into this, espcially since i havent started work (dont know when, whenever they call me) and not much of a budget if any lol.

ANyways i got tons of stuff around the house that I think i can make into a decent unit.. wires and bolts not really a big deal.
http://i51.tinypic.com/sphg8g.jpg

Right now I am leaning towards going with a dry cell.. Give me suggestions on design etc..

Got a big sheet of stainless steel
http://i55.tinypic.com/wh15ok.jpg
http://i53.tinypic.com/2nicxn8.jpg

Roofing sheet that im thinking would be ok insulator
http://i52.tinypic.com/opx4.jpg

[hypertek]

I could have sworn ive seen some acyrlic sheet somewhere.

and then there is some steel rod, at least thats what i think it is, doesnt feel light like aluminum
http://i53.tinypic.com/2yzfloh.jpg
that i could probably do a typical spiral wet setup in a jar.

What do you guys think? If I go with dry cell , and suggestions on how many plates and measurements i should cut?

This will be for a car btw, im trying to get a 4 cylinder toyota 4x4 or use in my blazer.

[koya1893]

I've been busy with work, but I was not gone that long to the point that someone want to spend their time to build a "wet cell". May I recommend using the "search" function in the forum to find the design you are asking for. I've share this many times, there's a ton of data in this forum. If someone like yourself take the time to search for it, it's enough to build an efficient dry cell to market and out perform those being sold on Ebay or any other vendor out there.

One place you might want to start, click every mentors in the forum and read their reply to the same question you are asking. I guaranty you, you will find asnwers to questions you have not even thought of about build a cell. Even how to wire them up. PLEASE CLEAR your head from the wet cell design, you might want to go back to work. If you play with them you probably will not because one exploded and hurt you.

[BioFarmer93]

-Couldn't have said it better...

Read read read hypertek, then you'd have known that you can't use mild steel or aluminum inside a cell.
No slam and no insult intended- just some of the basics.

[hypertek]

I plan to try for a drycell,

I got a plastic cutting board that I will be using. cut it in half, I am looking at 9 3/4 x 6 3/8 , than maybe for the plates go 8x5. I can easily get 18 plates out of the metal but I doubt I will need that much. Still doing homework on that portion. Maybe 11 plates in +NNNN-NNNN+

[Zarko]

I plan to try for a drycell,

I got a plastic cutting board that I will be using. cut it in half, I am looking at 9 3/4 x 6 3/8 , than maybe for the plates go 8x5. I can easily get 18 plates out of the metal but I doubt I will need that much. Still doing homework on that portion. Maybe 11 plates in +NNNN-NNNN+

11 plates is good compromis in -NNNN+NNNN-, because you need more hydrogen with negative plates not oxygen.

[hypertek]

thanks for the advice. I got to figure out hole placement and where to put them.

[BioFarmer93]

11 plates is good compromis in -NNNN+NNNN-, because you need more hydrogen with negative plates not oxygen.

OK guys, two things here.. First, 4 bipolar (N) plates is not enough, that will put your voltage per cell (VpC) at 2.76V. This wastes electrical production (alternator drag & heat in cell), electrolyte (steam), & time (yours). It also gives false production numbers. Use 6 bipolar (N) plates, this puts your VpC @ 1.97V which is pretty much optimal.
Second thing, You won't make more hydrogen by having the negatives on the ends. you still end up with one negative face for each positive face... Go ahead, count 'em. Besides, from an electrochemical standpoint in straight up brute force electrolysis, you can't make more hydrogen than is available. That ratio is dictated by the molecular makeup of water, remember? H2O1.
Both of you please take some time and go back in our archives here, say, 80 or 90 pages at least, and just start reading. Pretty soon you will be able to distinguish the wheat from the chaff, and save yourselves much money, time & trouble..;)

[hypertek]

alright I will try that, thanks. Sorry I wanted this to be more of my "build" thread rather than general questions.

That steel I have had a label, turns out it is a armor panel http://www.rev-a-shelf-hardware.com/catalog-product.php?p_ref=21433
US32D

Pretty pricey piece i had laying around the house (pretty cool that I found it somewhere ), i already had cut out a block off plate that I had used for a car so might as well cut it up for this .

[BioFarmer93]

Not to worry man, we'll let you start a new thread.... We have lots of 'em!;)

[hypertek]

Well I am still cutting the plates out, but i couldn't help but to try it in a wet setup, i know the electrolyte probably wasnt the greatest (tap water and baking soda in a detergent bin. ) .. but i think this is cool haha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y71wgqlmxac

[Havens78]

It is a lot of fun to see this stuff work, just be careful.

[hypertek]

So far I cut 12 plates, will be neutrals, then I will cut 3 more for the positive and negative. Now I was thinking to keep them rectangle with a little tab on the top left or right corner for a female crimp terminal instead of cutting the corners of the neutrals.

My cutting board is pretty thin that I'm using for the end pieces, just under 1/4 inch, so I will see about cutting metal backing plate to support it (i got some old filing cabinet I can scrap from ) maybe paint those with some left over spray paint to make it look real good.

[Zarko]

OK guys, two things here.. First, 4 bipolar (N) plates is not enough, that will put your voltage per cell (VpC) at 2.76V. This wastes electrical production (alternator drag & heat in cell), electrolyte (steam), & time (yours). It also gives false production numbers. Use 6 bipolar (N) plates, this puts your VpC @ 1.97V which is pretty much optimal.


I agree with you, but this cell with 4 bipolar (N) plates has a "little bit" faster response when you drive on shorter distances. I also have that with with 6 N plates and it takes a quite of time to reach it's maximum of production.

[lhazleton]

Zarko,
A reactor with less than 6 bi-polar plates is nothing but a steam machine. Regardless of driving time, efficiency is efficiency.Period. If built well, a 7 or 8 cell reactor's production is instantaneous. Gus already explained this.
Hypertek,
1/4" cutting board isn't gonna cut it. Besides being too flexible, there wont be enough threaded area for the connectors to seal. Using panels from an old filing cabinet will also flex easily. The endplates must be extremely stiff.
I looked at the link for the S/S you plan on using, and there's no mention as to what type of steel is used. If it's not 304 or 316 with an "L" rating, it'll wear out quickly and most likely contaminate the electrolyte with lots of gunk.
Also, using crimp terminals is kind of a Bozo-NoNo. They tend to loosen & can give you one headache after another. Using a #8 screw will be worth the effort.

[Zarko]

Zarko,
A reactor with less than 6 bi-polar plates is nothing but a steam machine. Regardless of driving time, efficiency is efficiency.Period. If built well, a 7 or 8 cell reactor's production is instantaneous. Gus already explained this.

Depends, on how much electrolyte and how many amps man use for 1 lit/min HHO. Look at this page: http://autodijagnostika.biz/forum/viewforum.php?id=33. The forum is in croatian language, but you can contact for example guy called danek, who has achived 1 lit/min HHO with 8A:) and 1/4 teaspoon of NaOH in 1 lit of water. Almost the same result I also have. Latest Mr. Danek's work is here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvui4Zw0IKA&feature=youtu.be. With 30A, 2.4 lit/min HHO and 28% KOH you will have steam always regardless the number of plates.

[hypertek]

what is the typical degradation rate? few hours, days , weeks? maybe I can cut some extra pieces and make a wet setup and have that run for a few hours a day to test it out. Maybe I can call the manufacturer and ask what kind of stainless steel it is.

[hypertek]

Ok i just got off the phone with them, they said it is 301 grade.

[lhazleton]

301 has a high carbon content. It will work, but everything will most likely get coated with crap over a short period. Take the setup that you used in your video, but put it in a mix of distilled water and KOH or NaOh instead of baking soda. Run it at 13.8vdc for a while and check for discoloration on the plates and in the e/lyte. The 301 probably won't work well, but since you already have it cut up, ya might as well give it a try. Good luck!

[BioFarmer93]

Depends, on how much electrolyte and how many amps man use for 1 lit/min HHO. Look at this page: http://autodijagnostika.biz/forum/viewforum.php?id=33. The forum is in croatian language, but you can contact for example guy called danek, who has achived 1 lit/min HHO with 8A:) and 1/4 teaspoon of NaOH in 1 lit of water. Almost the same result I also have. With 30A, 2.4 lit/min HHO and 28% KOH you will have steam always regardless the number of plates.

OK then.. Well, best of luck to you, live long and prosper.

[lhazleton]

Depends, on how much electrolyte and how many amps man use for 1 lit/min HHO. Look at this page: http://autodijagnostika.biz/forum/viewforum.php?id=33. The forum is in croatian language, but you can contact for example guy called danek, who has achived 1 lit/min HHO with 8A:) and 1/4 teaspoon of NaOH in 1 lit of water. Almost the same result I also have. With 30A, 2.4 lit/min HHO and 28% KOH you will have steam always regardless the number of plates.

I can't read what the site says, but anyone claiming 1LPM@8 amps. is full of sh1t. It can't be done, end of story. His setup must be producing lots of steam, not pure HHO, which is what you get when above 2vpc is used.

[Zarko]

I can't read what the site says, but anyone claiming 1LPM@8 amps. is full of sh1t. It can't be done, end of story. His setup must be producing lots of steam, not pure HHO, which is what you get when above 2vpc is used.

It can be done very easy but man must know how...Latest Mr. Danek's video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvui4Zw0IKA&feature=youtu.be. And you claim that with 30A you have pure HHO, that's funny to tears:D.

[lhazleton]

It can be done but very easy but man must know how...Latest Mr. Danek's video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvui4Zw0IKA&feature=youtu.be. And you claim that with 30A you have pure HHO, that's funny to tears:D.

Guess you have no idea what Faraday Law is, huh?
The video shows nothing to prove anything, dipsh1t....:rolleyes:

Gus, does this remind you of anybody???????????? LOL

[myoldyourgold]

Zarko, It takes energy from some source, or a chemical reaction to brake the bonds of water. It is well known exactly how much. If some one is making 1 LPM with 8 amps dry HHO and no other source of energy then it brakes all scientific laws. If this was possible then running a car on water with an on board reactor would be a reality. Now if some other source of energy is being used then that needs to be taken into account too. Methods of measuring also are not accurate and can be way off. Most claims like this either are honest mistakes or made by someone who is not aware of the science behind braking the bonds of water or just an out right lier.

[BioFarmer93]

Guess you have no idea what Faraday Law is, huh?
The video shows nothing to prove anything, dipsh1t....:rolleyes:

Gus, does this remind you of anybody???????????? LOL

Shades of days gone by and good riddance.. Maybe the reincarnation of.....
But you know, if he's doing the resonance thing and pulsing through a spark gap, he just might be pulling in all kinds of ZPE to make up the difference there. I better look at the video just to be sure...;):cool:

[BioFarmer93]

Well, I checked out the video... Pretty bubbles!! That's about all there is to it. Like you said, it doesn't prove a thing.

[Zarko]

Well, I checked out the video... Pretty bubbles!! That's about all there is to it. Like you said, it doesn't prove a thing.

Don't worry guys, you can believe that or not, the same thing. You Americans are well known as very stubborn people:D. Many years ago also Nikola Tesla had a lot of problems with that. Faraday Law is down at least in 1000 cases regardless you think about that here in region of former Yugoslavia (Croatia, Serbia etc.). Good luck to you and your engines full of KOH, NaOH etc...;)
yet another link:
http://www.fuel-saver.org/Thread-A-must-read-for-newbies

[BioFarmer93]

Zarko,
I think I see now that you were referring to the tuning 101 also? Yes, we AMERICANS know about this also. Faraday's laws DO apply to brute force electrolysis, but they do not apply to ZPE. Are you implying that Mr. Danek's system also utilizes ZPE (Zero Point Energy, radiant energy, dark energy, cosmic energy, etc.. known by many names?) That energy is the only thing that could account for his (supposedly) higher production. If this is the reason then say it, but don't expect us to believe that something as simple as electrolysis behaves differently because of geographic proximity to Nickola’s birthplace… As for stubbornness, the most stubborn friend I have is a SERB! He moved to the U.S. to get away from the ignorance and violence of his homeland, so perhaps you may want to leave nationalistic stereotyping out of this conversation. The reason you are receiving so much criticism here is because you make big claims, but what you offer us for proof shows essentially nothing, nor do you offer any type of explanation about how these remarkable feats are accomplished. So hopefully now you may understand why you are not believed. Oh, and as far as I know, the only two people that actually gave Tesla any real problems were J.P. Morgan and Thomas A. Edison. Everyone I know that has even heard of Tesla considers him to be a genius and a hero. Don’t forget where he did the bulk of his work- HERE.:D:rolleyes:

[Zarko]

This has nothing with PWM, ZPE, resonance, joe cell etc.. just pure electrolysis with low amps and low concentration of NaOH. That's all from me...

[myoldyourgold]

This has nothing with PWM, ZPE, resonance, joe cell etc.. just pure electrolysis with low amps and low concentration of NaOH. That's all from me...

Zorko, let us move this part of this discussion to its own thread where I would be very interested in hearing more from you and I am sure others would too. This will give you chance to explain it in depth. I have started a new thread here is the link.

http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?p=46630#post46630