Punch Slimline 5.0 dry cell?

[jerrymc777]

Does anyone have any experience with the Punch Slimline 5.0 dry cell? :confused:
They look pretty cool.

http://youtu.be/WDjnPMji9YU

<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/WDjnPMji9YU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

What is your opinion on these?

[Weapon_R]

Found this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFenYqM3iO0

[jerrymc777]

Thanks. I wondered about the heat, but they claim that it loses very little current leakage because of it not having holes in the plates and it's sealed. The plates and gaskets must be very thin causing it to deteriorate when hot.
I really like the hhoconnection site and have learned alot from his videos, but this cell is made by some guy named Tom at PunchHHO.

1/2 LPM? Doesn't sound too great for $300.

[Darrell]

I like how thin the cell is however in my opinion it is not very efficient. It does compare to others cells being sold on the market though. When you compare it to other cells built here on the forum it falls short.

Just my thoughts though. "D"

[BioFarmer93]

I like how thin the cell is however in my opinion it is not very efficient. It does compare to others cells being sold on the market though. When you compare it to other cells built here on the forum it falls short.

Just my thoughts though. "D"

Yes, far short... The Punch 5.0 is sleek & slim because it doesn't have enough plates. The manufacturer touts the fact that there are no holes, woo hoo no holes! no current leakage! that means very little if you're only running 3 or 4 neutral plates and melting reactors because he's not smart enough to realize or too profit focused to acknowledge that you need to mechanically limit the VpC to right around 2V or less by including the appropriate number of neutral plates.

[jerrymc777]

Yes that makes perfect sense cause everything I've learned thus far says no more than 2.2v per plate, otherwise you get too much wasted heat and thus steam.

Thanks for the input!

[hhoconnection]

OK, here is my take. Having run it through the ringer I can say that it is a nice little cell. I have told Tom that my recommendation is that he needs to add an extra neutral plate. He said that originally he made them with 5 neutrals but customers were complaining about having to mix the electrolyte too strong. Personally, I didn't get that because I was able to get good production at 2v/gap with a fairly light electrolyte mix. Just like tests that others have run on other cells, this one ran the most efficient at lower voltages. I was able to get MMW's in the mid 6's at 1.8 volts/gap. Check out in this video where I got 1 LPM at 10.78 volts and about 16 amps:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LtoW1wYdeg&feature=channel_video_title

If you are in a situation where space is important, this cell would be a good solution. I would limit them to 15-20 amps though and just add cells as needed for more HHO. Obviously these cells are not for everyone because of the cost, but until you have had a chance to test one, I would not knock them. I would seriously like to test a 5 neutral version with media blasted, passivated plates.

As for the video you posted where the guy melted it down, any cell will leak if you overdrive it for too long. It is obvious that that cell was run at too high of amperage for too long and probably with no PWM. Every cell has it's limitations especially if you don't know what you are doing.

[myoldyourgold]

In order for this to be a flow through reactor and a bipolar reactor it has current leakage. No ifs ands or buts. It is somewhat limited but is still there. A normal ported reactor with Weldon-16 would be the same and most likely better because of how the electrolyte flows. A very good reactor running under 100º F and with out a dryer can make 1 LPM at 130-140 watts. Now if you take out the moisture it could be very close to 100% Faraday. That is what I call an efficient reactor. To get it down that low will not happen with the Punch design or a normal bipolar reactor. Moisture is not only formed by overall electrolyte temperature. There are many other things that create moisture in the process. So just because the electrolyte temperature is even below 80º F doesn't mean there is no moisture in the gas. Now that is something to chew on.

[BioFarmer93]

OK, here is my take. Having run it through the ringer I can say that it is a nice little cell. I have told Tom that my recommendation is that he needs to add an extra neutral plate. He said that originally he made them with 5 neutrals but customers were complaining about having to mix the electrolyte too strong. Personally, I didn't get that because I was able to get good production at 2v/gap with a fairly light electrolyte mix. Just like tests that others have run on other cells, this one ran the most efficient at lower voltages. I was able to get MMW's in the mid 6's at 1.8 volts/gap. Check out in this video where I got 1 LPM at 10.78 volts and about 16 amps:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LtoW1wYdeg&feature=channel_video_title

If you are in a situation where space is important, this cell would be a good solution. I would limit them to 15-20 amps though and just add cells as needed for more HHO. Obviously these cells are not for everyone because of the cost, but until you have had a chance to test one, I would not knock them. I would seriously like to test a 5 neutral version with media blasted, passivated plates.

As for the video you posted where the guy melted it down, any cell will leak if you overdrive it for too long. It is obvious that that cell was run at too high of amperage for too long and probably with no PWM. Every cell has it's limitations especially if you don't know what you are doing.

I'm sorry, but any reactor that that you have to deliberately design inefficiency into because people don't want to use full strength electrolyte in it, or need to use a PWM on if someone does use full strength electrolyte in, just aint designed right. Proper design (plate area & number of plates) negates the need for a PWM. I obviously don't have a lot patience for folks that feel like electrolyte percentage is the HHO equivalent to how much sugar or lemon one prefers in their tea. Best efficiencies & gas production occur at known electrolyte percentages, right?

[Havens78]

Flow through design can be somewhat efficient though, with the right amount of plates and water mix right?







I really need to finish my CAD drawings and get some feedback for a design I want to try, i'd like more efficiency than i have now from a purchased system.

[hhoconnection]

I'm sorry, but any reactor that that you have to deliberately design inefficiency into because people don't want to use full strength electrolyte in it, or need to use a PWM on if someone does use full strength electrolyte in, just aint designed right. Proper design (plate area & number of plates) negates the need for a PWM. I obviously don't have a lot patience for folks that feel like electrolyte percentage is the HHO equivalent to how much sugar or lemon one prefers in their tea. Best efficiencies & gas production occur at known electrolyte percentages, right?

I agree that there are virtually no HHO cells available for sale that meet the standards that are expected on this forum. I tell people all the time what I think the "ultimate" dry cell would look like. I would be more than happy to sell such a cell if anyone here wants to start making them. I wish I had the money, time and business sense to produce such a product. If you know of a dry cell that meets your standards and is being offered for sale at a somewhat reasonable price, please let me know. Until then I will continue to spread the word of HHO responsibly and offer products to help get people started who cannot build their own, even if they aren't as efficient as they could be. This business is by no means perfect but hey we have come a long way from the mason jars of a couple years ago.

[BioFarmer93]

I agree that there are virtually no HHO cells available for sale that meet the standards that are expected on this forum. I tell people all the time what I think the "ultimate" dry cell would look like. I would be more than happy to sell such a cell if anyone here wants to start making them. I wish I had the money, time and business sense to produce such a product. If you know of a dry cell that meets your standards and is being offered for sale at a somewhat reasonable price, please let me know. Until then I will continue to spread the word of HHO responsibly and offer products to help get people started who cannot build their own, even if they aren't as efficient as they could be. This business is by no means perfect but hey we have come a long way from the mason jars of a couple years ago.


This business is by no means perfect but hey we have come a long way from the mason jars of a couple years ago.
Well I can certainly agree with your last statement! I still wince when I see hucksters on youtube and ebay promoting jar cells as "THE BEST!!":rolleyes:
If I thought I could make a living at it I'd quit my job in a heartbeat and build reactors for you that were designed to run with no PWM, designed to target outputs for specific sized engines from 1.6 liter econo boxes to 12 liter big rigs, and designed to not overheat when being used 8-10 hours a day, brute force 13.8V... It's honestly not difficult- the design parameters have been established for quite a while now and repeated over and over right in this very forum. Oh well... If you have a builder in mind, PM me and we'll figure out say, two of the most popular sized engines and I'll calculate and design two bipolar style reactors for those engine sizes.

[koya1893]

The only comment I would like to add to this discussion is: if your cell, especially Bipolar design is build well according to the specs everyone have shared in here. You can run them "BRUTE FORCE" and not worry about a thermal runaway without a PWM.

I've been running a two stack cell on my F-150 for 40K now staggared holes and 1 lb. of NaOH per 1 gl. of DW. I've never seen the cell or the solution run up pass 110 degrees, even after a 4 hour drive during the 80's and 90's we've had all summer.

This is because of my dual reservoir/remote application.

[afjsph]

dont know much about the effectiveness of the system but its size is really good for smaller vehicles. for end plates instead of plexiglass does he use stainless steel? if so what thickness is ideal for this