Best liquid for bibbler ?

[Quebecker]

To the mentors and others experiments HHO...

In your experience, what is the best liquid to use in a bubbler and why?

I read in some thread

distilled water
distilled water with boric acid
distilled vinegar
windshield wash fluid
....

Thanks

[myoldyourgold]

If you are looking for a solution for winter anything with water will freeze when it gets cold enough. Even vinegar is mostly water. Windshield washer fluid has alcohol which evaporates in the bubbler and then freezes.

Here is something I have been working on and feel it is time to have others test it too, even as a commercial product is being formulated. Get some Marvel Mystery oil and add a little Boric acid to make it slightly acidic. Here is how this very thin oil is used currently:

• Marvel Mystery Oil® lubricates the entire fuel system-fuel pumps, fuel injectors or carburetors and the top portion of the cylinders. These are areas, that by design, motor oil does not reach. Using Marvel Mystery Oil in your fuel extends the life of these vital components by providing them with lubrication that fuel alone does not provide.

• Marvel reduces and prevents varnish and gum build-up, two key contributors to robbing engine performance. When you shut off your engine, a miniscule drop of fuel is left at the tip of the fuel injectors or carburetor jets. This miniscule drop off of fuel then solidifies into a varnish type residue. Over time, the accumulated varnish blocks the openings of the injectors or jets, contributing to lower performance and fuel economy and shorter life of these components.

• Spark plug life is also extended by using Marvel in your fuel. It creates a cleaner burning cylinder environment that reduces carbon build-up on spark plugs resulting in better firing plugs that increase performance and durability.

• In addition, Marvel Mystery Oil® improves fuel mileage by reducing internal friction in the engine.

http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/index.php/site/mmo/

This solves the freezing winter problem. It can be used year around but not necessary. Some does get carried into the engine but only helps things. There is no increase in pollution in my testing anyway. I have been avoiding posting this until I had enough testing to say it works well. I think that it works well enough that others can now test it. There will be a commercial product coming out sometime that will be formulated just to do this. It will not work with any dry filter after the bubbler because it will just plug up the filter over time. You do not need a dry filter if you use this properly.

Make sure your diffuser is compatible. A very fine diffuser will not work when turning the reactor off at idle because of the time required to pump the oil back through the diffuser when you start up again specially if you idle for a longer period of time. I am working on testing a different type of diffuser for the oil and will post it as soon as possible. It does not require as fine as bubbles as water does. This is also a problem with water. Works fine for short periods but if you are stuck in traffic or a very long multi-way traffic light there is a lag longer lag.

[Quebecker]

If you are looking for a solution for winter anything with water will freeze when it gets cold enough. Even vinegar is mostly water. Windshield washer fluid has alcohol which evaporates in the bubbler and then freezes.

Here is something I have been working on and feel it is time to have others test it too, even as a commercial product is being formulated. Get some Marvel Mystery oil and add a little Boric acid to make it slightly acidic. Here is how this very thin oil is used currently:

• Marvel Mystery Oil® lubricates the entire fuel system-fuel pumps, fuel injectors or carburetors and the top portion of the cylinders. These are areas, that by design, motor oil does not reach. Using Marvel Mystery Oil in your fuel extends the life of these vital components by providing them with lubrication that fuel alone does not provide.

• Marvel reduces and prevents varnish and gum build-up, two key contributors to robbing engine performance. When you shut off your engine, a miniscule drop of fuel is left at the tip of the fuel injectors or carburetor jets. This miniscule drop off of fuel then solidifies into a varnish type residue. Over time, the accumulated varnish blocks the openings of the injectors or jets, contributing to lower performance and fuel economy and shorter life of these components.

• Spark plug life is also extended by using Marvel in your fuel. It creates a cleaner burning cylinder environment that reduces carbon build-up on spark plugs resulting in better firing plugs that increase performance and durability.

• In addition, Marvel Mystery Oil® improves fuel mileage by reducing internal friction in the engine.

http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/index.php/site/mmo/

This solves the freezing winter problem. It can be used year around but not necessary. Some does get carried into the engine but only helps things. There is no increase in pollution in my testing anyway. I have been avoiding posting this until I had enough testing to say it works well. I think that it works well enough that others can now test it. There will be a commercial product coming out sometime that will be formulated just to do this. It will not work with any dry filter after the bubbler because it will just plug up the filter over time. You do not need a dry filter if you use this properly.

Make sure your diffuser is compatible.

G r e a t !!!

I will try to find this product at Walmart or NAPA AUto Part.

Approx how much boric Acid per liter of oil ?

My diffuser is an aquarium diffuser, do you think he is consistent, if not, would you have a suggestion ?

My bubbleur current is approximately 2 "diameter by 11" long, I keep the same bubbler ?

I don't use dry filtrer ...

[myoldyourgold]

Approx how much boric Acid per liter of oil ?

I am sorry I do not have a good rule of thumb yet. The reason is because we have two variables to contend with. One is how much the bubbler holds and the other is how many LPM you are going to run through it. Testing is on going and I will come up with a formula here shortly. 1/2 teaspoon per liter should work for now but like I said that it does depend on how much gas you are running though the liter. I am close but not got the exact answer yet. I will post it as soon as I have it. I think the rule is going to be based on a range of the amount of oil in the bubbler to a range of LPM.

[Quebecker]

I am sorry I do not have a good rule of thumb yet. The reason is because we have two variables to contend with. One is how much the bubbler holds and the other is how many LPM you are going to run through it. Testing is on going and I will come up with a formula here shortly. 1/2 teaspoon per liter should work for now but like I said that it does depend on how much gas you are running though the liter. I am close but not got the exact answer yet. I will post it as soon as I have it. I think the rule is going to be based on a range of the amount of oil in the bubbler to a range of LPM.

My production is: 0.7 - 0.8 LPM

My bubbler (2" * 9" of water) hold: 1.8 liters (I hope :confused:)

http://www.mathsteacher.com.au/year9/ch14_measurement/18_cylinder/cylind1.gif

V = 3.1416 * (2*2) * 9
V= 3.1416 * 4 * 9
V = 113 in ³

113 in³ = 1.85 liters

[myoldyourgold]

I think a 1/2 teaspoon will work fine. You must remember you must have a vacuum brake to prevent the oil from getting sucked back into the reservoir. This is still experimental as to how much boric acid is necessary. It might not require so much because the oil itself acts as a protector preventing the very little amount of electrolyte that escapes form doing any damage. The boric acid is so weak it is used to wash out your eyes. 1/2 teaspoon per 1.8 liters and for the volume of gas you are making will be fine.

[Quebecker]

I think a 1/2 teaspoon will work fine. You must remember you must have a vacuum brake to prevent the oil from getting sucked back into the reservoir. This is still experimental as to how much boric acid is necessary. It might not require so much because the oil itself acts as a protector preventing the very little amount of electrolyte that escapes form doing any damage. The boric acid is so weak it is used to wash out your eyes. 1/2 teaspoon per 1.8 liters and for the volume of gas you are making will be fine.

The one-way valve I have on top of my tank is not sufficient to prevent the liquid from the bubbler back in the tank ?

To date, I feel that this one-way valve did its job well

http://i44.servimg.com/u/f44/12/14/86/85/electr10.jpg

[myoldyourgold]

It will leak in time. What happens is the electrolyte in the moisture in the reservoir gets on the valve and drys forming a powder which makes the valve leak. To prevent this you need a filter in front of the one way valve. I can almost guarantee that it will leak and could be dangerous. The filter can be made. I will see if I have a picture some where with me on the simple home made filter I use. I would also vent that to the air cleaner so if it did leak the gas would go into the air cleaner and does not collect in the engine compartment or were ever the reservoir is mounted. To be safe I would include a flashback arrestor on it too.

[myoldyourgold]

Quebecker, your cigarette filter idea might work in this case to help the one way valve from not leaking because there will be no volume of gas passing though only air coming in it. You should try it and report back. You might be able to pack it into the the one way valve housing itself just make sure it does not touch the valve. If it is tight enough it should stay in. Worth a try.

I will try and bum a cigarette off of someone and try it too. LOL

[Quebecker]

I'm glad !!!!


MMO not available in CANADA because not CSA approved

To your knowledge, would it have an equivalent ?

[myoldyourgold]

I edited my post on the oil bubbler above and you should read the additional information that I added in regards to the diffuser which also pertains to water when you turn off the reactor at idle.

[Quebecker]

Do you think that adding about 2" sandblast could pop the gas in small bubble?

[myoldyourgold]

Do you think that adding about 2" sandblast could pop the gas in small bubble?

I am lost and do understand what you mean buy sandblast???

[Quebecker]

I am lost and do understand what you mean buy sandblast???

Sorry, my error !!!

I spoke of filter media to filter pool -> Pool filter sand




Question of the day :-)
When you are using a new product to clean the HHO gas, as you did with the MMO, how to know if the product is effective ?

I think this product might be effective in cleaning the HHO gas

http://www.fishfarmsupply.ca/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FFS&Product_Code=AC412A&Category_Code=filterMedia

[Quebecker]

I think a 1/2 teaspoon will work fine. You must remember you must have a vacuum brake to prevent the oil from getting sucked back into the reservoir. This is still experimental as to how much boric acid is necessary. It might not require so much because the oil itself acts as a protector preventing the very little amount of electrolyte that escapes form doing any damage. The boric acid is so weak it is used to wash out your eyes. 1/2 teaspoon per 1.8 liters and for the volume of gas you are making will be fine.

Hi Carter,

Could show me a vacuum brake picture and explain me the concept ?

About the liquid back into the pipe after the diffuser, did you try an inline check valve like this ?
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/9075/inlinecheckvalve.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/3/inlinecheckvalve.png/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[myoldyourgold]

Do not use anything with Activated Carbon. I have forgotten what it does but it is not good. One way valves only work if they do not have electrolyte wetting them and then drying. Every one I have tried has failed. If you you use a dry filter of some kind before the the one way on a vacuum brake then it works. To be safe vent it to the intake before the air cleaner in case it leaks.