Steam + KOH

[iPkti]

Hi Folks,

I don't know where to post this. These are the facts.

I do have a 17 plates electrolizer, with a bubbler and a drier.

Water level in the drier never raise 2 inches.

I found this on the admission and had a throttle body blocked because of sediments.

This is the throttle body, the reverse (the front part doesn't have any sediment)

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/4939/imagetdh.jpg

This is the drier
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-tNmQoAXg4ac/TasCzc3sHjI/AAAAAAAAB7g/3XMEQn_ZA1Y/s512/IMG_20110417170746.jpg

This is the drier again. The green thing is scotch-britte.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-QbArfeFax9Q/TasDxyBE3pI/AAAAAAAAB74/QTwj8-J3E6Q/s512/IMG_20110417171227.jpg

This is the general configuration. Bubbler and drier are on the bottom right corner.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-aX4bvl0W-As/TasEaMLiu4I/AAAAAAAAB78/Gf4lPXA1AkI/s640/IMG_20110417171346.jpg

My theory is that steam is produced (noted that there is high temp on the bubbler), but is not pure water, but h2o+koh.

Could it be possible?

If it could be, will some lemon drops or vinegar in the drier be enough for stopping this sediments (personally I doubt it)?

My personal feeling and approach is that I should cool the electrolyte.

What is yours?

Thanks in advance for your ideas.

[BioFarmer93]

17 plates? configuration is what?
+nnn-nnn+nnn-nnn+
-nnn+nnn-nnn+nnn-
+nnnnnnn-nnnnnnn+
+nnnn-nnnn+nnnn-?

With 17 plates, to stop making steam you must configure like this-
+nnnnnn-nnnnnn+
OR
-nnnnnn+nnnnnn-
-And yes I am aware that you will have two plates left over. The way your electrical configuration is now is causing too much voltage between the plates, making it over heat and produce steam.
Your bubbler should have only water in it unless it also serves as your reservoir. Your drier will work better if you cut 15 or 20 discs of scotch brite slightly too large for the tube and push them in one by one with a tube of some kind that will fit inside the dryer tube. There should be 6 or 7mm between each disc. There should never be standing electrolyte or water inside your dryer, rebuild it with the entry at the bottom so any electrolyte/water can drain back down to your bubbler.

[iPkti]

Thanks BioFarmer93 for your quick reply! :)

Sorry for missing the configuration. My current configuration is as your first option, 3 neutrals between + and -, with a current of 13.8v, so I guess that, as you mentioned, I am putting too much voltage between electrodes and I am creating steam.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-wIcPDyk3q-k/TNxpxmQ714I/AAAAAAAABgc/aWdajJ1MsXQ/s640/DSC00169.JPG

My bubbler is also a reservoir, so I have there KOH and water...

I will cut the discs and put them the way you've said in the drier. But for accomplish your recommendation, the drier should be above/higher than the bubbler/reservoir and I don't have room to raise it.

This is a pic taken before installing the drier, which was placed at the right of the reservoir

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-QNPP7uz7pr8/ThCCblt3p9I/AAAAAAAACDs/Nsfl-mvM6XA/mangueras%252520ida%252520turbos.png

The entrance is the lower one, but will never drain back to reservoir, apart from the fact that scotch-britte will become rusty by action of the KOH. But turning back to the question, "Steam" is "Pure Water" or is "Water + KOH"?

Thanks again for your Feedback. Really appreciate it :)

[BioFarmer93]

I'm sorry, but the steam contains KOH, it is not just pur water...

[iPkti]

I'm sorry, but the steam contains KOH, it is not just pur water...

Thank you BioFarmer93. I was supposing that but now you have confirmed. :):):)

Do you think that cooling the electrolyte will reduce the amount of caustic steam, or is it created anyway due the wrong voltage between the plates regardless the electrolyte temperature?

I am designing my own electrolyzer (almost finished the design and started the procurement of some materials) and my main target is fighting against the steam. I have approached the issue with a water pump and electrolyte cooling by contact with another liquid, using a heat exchanger.

If the steam is created anyway regardless the temperature, I will drop my project in this sense, but if the steam is created only when the electrolyte is hotter than 55ºC (131ºF), which was my initial assumption, my design might work very well, as the electrolyte will be always cooler than that temp.

Once again, thank you very much for your support.

[BioFarmer93]

Thank you BioFarmer93. I was supposing that but now you have confirmed. :):):)

Do you think that cooling the electrolyte will reduce the amount of caustic steam, or is it created anyway due the wrong voltage between the plates regardless the electrolyte temperature?

I am designing my own electrolyzer (almost finished the design and started the procurement of some materials) and my main target is fighting against the steam. I have approached the issue with a water pump and electrolyte cooling by contact with another liquid, using a heat exchanger.

If the steam is created anyway regardless the temperature, I will drop my project in this sense, but if the steam is created only when the electrolyte is hotter than 55ºC (131ºF), which was my initial assumption, my design might work very well, as the electrolyte will be always cooler than that temp.

Once again, thank you very much for your support.

Ipkti,
The steam is created because you are not using enough neutral plates between your power plates. Just disassemble your reactor and reassemble it like this: -nnnnnn+nnnnnn- and steam will not be a problem any longer. You do not need a pump, you do not need a heat exchanger, all you need is a properly configured reactor. Unless you simply enjoy tinkering with all of the extra components, don't over complicate your system... Remember K.I.S.S.

[iPkti]

Ipkti,
The steam is created because you are not using enough neutral plates between your power plates. Just disassemble your reactor and reassemble it like this: -nnnnnn+nnnnnn- and steam will not be a problem any longer. You do not need a pump, you do not need a heat exchanger, all you need is a properly configured reactor. Unless you simply enjoy tinkering with all of the extra components, don't over complicate your system... Remember K.I.S.S.

Would it be accurate to say that I am creating steam as a result of having too much voltage between plates than required?

From your words I assume that steam would be created regardless electrolyte's temperature, so cooling down the electrolyte or its recirculation will not stop caustic steam creation.

I will configure my current reactor as you said (I bought this cell already manufactured), but my new own design is a bit more complex than plates. My target is maximize production, maybe investing a bit, 0.5a, on a pump. The surface occupied by a bubble is blocked for production until the bubble moves, so water recirculation will allow you to create more bubbles.

What I don't know if this electrolyte recirculation will reduce the steam production. My assumption was, previous to your words, it will be reduced as the fast movement will avoid electrolyte heating (or it will force a slower heating pace). The more flow, the slower heating pace. If you place a heat exchanger you will eventually avoid heat in electrolyte enough to avoid steam. BUT if you say that steam is not produced by heat, I guess this approach is completely wrong.

I will try to follow your K.I.S.S. advice, TFTT by the way... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[BioFarmer93]

Would it be accurate to say that I am creating steam as a result of having too much voltage between plates than required?
Yes, that would be accurate.

From your words I assume that steam would be created regardless electrolyte's temperature, so cooling down the electrolyte or its recirculation will not stop caustic steam creation.
To some extent for a short period of time, cool electrolyte will slow the development of steam, but as the system runs (in its present arrangement) and the electrolyte warms, it requires less and less time to produce steam. When you have the proper number of neutral plates, the electrolyte will warm to its eventual operating temperature and go no higher, also it will produce no steam.

What I don't know if this electrolyte recirculation will reduce the steam production. My assumption was, previous to your words, it will be reduced as the fast movement will avoid electrolyte heating (or it will force a slower heating pace). The more flow, the slower heating pace. If you place a heat exchanger you will eventually avoid heat in electrolyte enough to avoid steam. BUT if you say that steam is not produced by heat, I guess this approach is completely wrong.

If you have sufficient capacity in your reservoir, and if your reservoir is of a material and in a position to shed heat, then of course recirculation will reduce steam production some... Until it warms up. I NEVER said steam was not produced by heat- how did you get that?? I am suggesting that you simply add more neutral plates to lower the excess voltage between the plates, which in turn will lower the excess heat produced and give more area for producing HHO.

[iPkti]

Would it be accurate to say that I am creating steam as a result of having too much voltage between plates than required?
Yes, that would be accurate.

From your words I assume that steam would be created regardless electrolyte's temperature, so cooling down the electrolyte or its recirculation will not stop caustic steam creation.
To some extent for a short period of time, cool electrolyte will slow the development of steam, but as the system runs (in its present arrangement) and the electrolyte warms, it requires less and less time to produce steam. When you have the proper number of neutral plates, the electrolyte will warm to its eventual operating temperature and go no higher, also it will produce no steam.

What I don't know if this electrolyte recirculation will reduce the steam production. My assumption was, previous to your words, it will be reduced as the fast movement will avoid electrolyte heating (or it will force a slower heating pace). The more flow, the slower heating pace. If you place a heat exchanger you will eventually avoid heat in electrolyte enough to avoid steam. BUT if you say that steam is not produced by heat, I guess this approach is completely wrong.

If you have sufficient capacity in your reservoir, and if your reservoir is of a material and in a position to shed heat, then of course recirculation will reduce steam production some... Until it warms up. I NEVER said steam was not produced by heat- how did you get that?? I am suggesting that you simply add more neutral plates to lower the excess voltage between the plates, which in turn will lower the excess heat produced and give more area for producing HHO.

Ok, got your point. I misunderstood the heat thing. So I am aligned with your statements.

On my current arrangement I will neutralize using your arrangement in the meantime.

My future development will be liquid cooled, so it is perfectly arranged with your statement in terms of inter-plate voltage. No heat means no steam, and no heat means that correct inter-electrode and inter-plates voltage is configured and the electrolyte temp is kept under control.

Thank you VERY MUCH for your support :):):):)

[ea5fzo]

Hello everyone, as I think the combination of a dry cell plates should be as you say, enough to control the neutral voltage.
sule will say it is better to use more amount of electrolyte and lower the voltage by a PWM (that's what makes itself) is hho production but little heat because the voltage is low or is the closest to the voltage ideal for electrolysis.
I have a cell bought on ebay with this configuration: nnn-nnn + +-I know so it is normal that is so hot.
for example my cell I think you have left a positive, but because the manufacturer makes it so? if he knows that otherwise the generator will do best and less koh into the engine.
the truth I do not understand

thi is my dry cell:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649&item=110678770569&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

[hhoconnection]

ea5fzo:

Watch this video and see if it helps you understand neutral plates:

<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/lDjyIvza6Yc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>