HHO 21 plate cell weird configuration?

[ioang26]

I bought a vehicle with a HHO cell 21 plate but looks like the configuration is different than the others i have seen .
I have -nnn+nnn-nnn+nnn-nnn+
Is this OK or I should change to -nnnn+nnnn-nnnn+nnnn-

Thanks in advance!

[myoldyourgold]

I bought a vehicle with a HHO cell 21 plate but looks like the configuration is different than the others i have seen .
I have -nnn+nnn-nnn+nnn-nnn+
Is this OK or I should change to -nnnn+nnnn-nnnn+nnnn-


What temperature does it run at and how many amps does it draw? Do you know how much HHO is being produced? What size are the plates? What kind of driving are you planning to do with the car? Sorry for all the questions but this will help everyone to give you some good advice.

This setup is splitting voltage by 4 and amps by 5. Because it is splitting amps by 5 it might not over heat with 3.45 volts per cell especially if the plates are media blasted. Before you change anything can you answer my questions. It is generally agreed that going to 4 n's per stack would be better and 5 would be even better which should make a more efficient reactor.

[ioang26]

Thank you for the quick reply!
The size of the plates are 6x4 , the temperature I have not measured and don't know how.
It produces 1 liter of HHO for 45sec at around 20amps with 2 tbs KOH per 1 quart of distilled water without PWM but the amps keep rising in just a few minutes.
I am planning mainly city driving , the furthest would be about 40-45 min hwy max.
The engine is V8 4.4 .
I bought a PWM 35 amp and a dual EFIE.
Thanks for all your suggestions and help !
Ioan

P.S. Ask as many questions as you want :)

[nst6563]

If you have access to an IR thermometer use that to read the temps. When I take the readings on my reactor, I read the hdpe endplate, the plate stack, and the electrolyte.

If you don't have one...I'd suggest one...really handy for many things other than just hho projects ;)

[myoldyourgold]

If the amps are climbing reduce the amount of KOH to the point where after 10 minutes of run time it stops climbing. Check to see if you are still making enough HHO and that it is not getting to hot. Should just be barely warm to the touch. You should run not hotter than 130º F after hours of running. Cooler the better. 90º F to 100º F is the best.

[ioang26]

I just took the cell apart and 3 of the active plates( 2 positive and 1 negative) are really bad corroded and one of them you can almost see through it.
What should I do? Put them back or order new ones?
BTW where can I order the same design and size 6"X4"?

[ioang26]

Forgot, also some of the neutral plates have one side corroded .
Does it matter or need to be replaced too?

[myoldyourgold]

I just took the cell apart and 3 of the active plates( 2 positive and 1 negative) are really bad corroded and one of them you can almost see through it.
What should I do? Put them back or order new ones?
BTW where can I order the same design and size 6"X4"?

Forgot, also some of the neutral plates have one side corroded .
Does it matter or need to be replaced too?

Here are a few reasons this is happening. Your plates are overheating most likely because of exceeding .5 amps per active surface area on one side of one plate or your electrolyte has been run low for some reason or another. By running low on electrolyte your plates have less active area and can over amp and create damaging heat very quickly, in hours in fact. It would really be helpful if we could see pictures of the plates. There could be other problems but would need to see the plates. The plates are shot if they are almost eaten through. If your plate starts to look like a map or some kind of art work that is the end of them. This should not happen for years if ever if everything is right. I suggest you go to a -nnnnn+nnnnn-nnnnn+ 19 plate setup. In a 4 X 6 running at max 20 amps this should make close to 1.5 lpm and last a very long time. For a reactor with this many plates it will be important to have the correct size of ports to prevent flow problems. Another reason for us to see the plates. Input ports and exit ports should be on both ends. If you do not have a gasket on the last plates so there is electrolyte on both sides of the last plates you need to do that too. You need to give us more detailed information to help otherwise we are going to guessing about some things.

[ioang26]

The cell had used baking soda for electrolyte and Hydrogen peroxide.
Yes, some of the neutral plates look like a map and corroded and the active plates some eaten through .
The cell has 2 ports , one of each side and there is only one gasket on the last plates.
Look like the previous owner run below 20 amps because he had a 20 Amp fuse at the line.
Please, give me an email so I can send you pics of it.

[myoldyourgold]

I sent you a PM. You can post the pictures here. There are a lot of very good people here that will be able to help. More people looking at it the better advise you will get.

[ioang26]

Here are the pics.

[lhazleton]

Man, those plates are toast! Way over-amped.:(

[ioang26]

Well...as I mentioned there is 20A fuse set up so...could those 15-19 amps cause that damage or it is the Baking soda used as a electrolyte with Hydrogen Peroxide ?

[ioang26]

Here is the update.
From 21 plate cell I removed the two active toasted plates and now
the cell is +NNNNN-NNNNN+NNNNN-
I run a test and started with 1 tsp KOH to 1 liter distilled water showing 2A
Added some more and some more and now I am at 20 tsp KOH per 2 Liters of distilled water and it is drawing only 9 Amps with HHO production = 1 liter for 1min and 50 sec.
What am I doing wrong here ?
Do I need to keep the concentration up until I reach 15-20 amps or plug in the PWM?

Thanks in advance!

[ioang26]

OK.Here are the pics.
This is the setup . The only thing I added was instead of 1/4 outlets I changed them with 3/8 and added two more outlets with the "T" joint.
Please, let me know if that was a bad idea.

[nst6563]

If your electrolyte color is that dark brown I would recommend changing it.

I'd also switch to some clear tubing at least going to the inlet, and attach a couple neodymium magnets to catch any magnetic debris that may be clouding the electrolyte (if enough of it settles inside the reactor it will cause a short). The less debris collected the better. You can pick up some of those magnets at harbor freight for around $1. Or if you have an old hard drive lying around (and don't need), tear it apart and take the neodymium magnet from there.

As for cleaning, drain the brown electrolyte. then fill the reactor with distilled water and power on again. If it produces any gas, let it run for a while, then drain and re-rinse.


Is your center power plate sealed (no holes)?

[myoldyourgold]

If you are just using a battery on your test bench your results will be much different in the car. You need to always include the voltage at the reactor when giving us results. This way we can tell how efficient your reactor is, and can estimate what it will do with higher voltage. I would make the final adjustment to the electrolyte after it is running on 13.8 volts not 12 or less.

[BioFarmer93]

If you are just using a battery on your test bench your results will be much different in the car. You need to always include the voltage at the reactor when giving us results. This way we can tell how efficient your reactor is, and can estimate what it will do with higher voltage. I would make the final adjustment to the electrolyte after it is running on 13.8 volts not 12 or less.

Carter, you beat me to it- I was going to ask if that battery I saw in the background was the power source...

[ioang26]

So, I need to measure the voltage on each power plate?

[koya1893]

Here are the pics.

I've seen that type of results from one of my clients. what happen with his cell was: he did not mix the solution in a seperatel container and let the NaOH dissolved complete before filling the reservoir. He added the distilled water in the reservoir and then poured in the 1lb of NaOH in the resevoir and attemp to mix it. when you do that some of the NaOH will migrate into the cell without being dissolved and if you get enough in a cluster it will bound together and become solid.

If the initial solution you filled the reservoir is not strong enough to draw the amps you desire. Hopefully you have a drain valve on your system, if s o drain several ources into another container and then add more KOH or NaOH to that solution, then return the solution back into the reservoir, instead of just pouring the NaOH or KOH into the reservoir directly. I suspect you poured your electrolyte directly into your reservoir.

With this configuration: -NNNNN+NNNNN- I found with NaOH, using 1 lb per 1 gl is sufficient to get initial 10-15 amps cold and it might climb to 15-20 amps if the OAT is in the 90-100 degree.

[ioang26]

Another update.Hooked up the cell to the car and started the engine.
Amp meter was showing a solid 14.5 A and the gas production was 1 liter/min.

[ioang26]

An update...connected the PWM,an extra bubbler and the digital amp meter with
added more KOH and now is drawing 23-24A with 1 liter gas production for 30 sec and the cell stays warm to touch.
Is that OK for 19 plate cell?
Do I need to add more KOH .I have V6 4.3L engine.
How much do I need - 4 liters per minute gas production?
Any suggestion would be highly appreciated.

[myoldyourgold]

2 to 2.5 liters per minute should be more than enough. If it is making 2 LPM at 24 amps you most likely measured wrong or there is a lot of moisture in the gas because that is some percentage over Faraday. What ever it is you should be fine with 2 to 2.5 LPM. Make sure you have all the electrolyte scrubbed out of the gas with a very efficient bubbler system.

[Amyang]

I am not a BBR now , but I hope to be .your explaination is very clear .it is very interesting .

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[Mr_The_Carper]

The cell had used baking soda for electrolyte and Hydrogen peroxide.
Yes, some of the neutral plates look like a map and corroded and the active plates some eaten through .
The cell has 2 ports , one of each side and there is only one gasket on the last plates.
Look like the previous owner run below 20 amps because he had a 20 Amp fuse at the line.
Please, give me an email so I can send you pics of it.

baking soda?!?! baking soda is a sh1t!! destroy electrodes...
-use KOH or NaOH...I use NaOH because NaOH is not dangerous and aggresive-20% electrolite in destiled water for ss304 and 304l in low amps..8-9A max not corrode the electrodes--for example,I use 1/2-1 teaspoon NaOH in 2l of destiled water
--- -nnnn+nnnn- or -nnnn+nnnn-nnnn+ , 3mm rubber gasket
- 110mmx95mm plates, Processing fiber discs (sandpaper is a sh1t), but manually - up and down,right-left each side...not too much.... on the top one hole 6-8mm,down in the corner 3mm hole- one plate left,another plate right..another plate left .. and so to the end .. right-left, right-left...

-electrolite 1 teaspoon of NaOH on 2l of water...the cell is very sensitive on electrolite-you must work slowly...8A max. - ss304 electrodes,0.5-0.8mm
---- made the cell...if you need much HHO dont go over 16 plates..
better to put 2 cells 11 plates...:D

[lhazleton]

Processing fiber discs (sandpaper is a sh1t), but manually - up and down,right-left each side...not too much.... on the top one hole 6-8mm,down in the corner 3mm hole- one plate left,another plate right..another plate left .. and so to the end .. right-left, right-left...


Danek,
While this will work, it's much better to media blast the active surface area of the plates. Do a search and you'll find a bounty of excellent information on this process.
After blasting and passivating, using Weld-on 16 around any holes works wonders.