BioBeast Progress...

[BioFarmer93]

For those of you who thought I was just kidding... I really have been a busy boy.. Two end plates to drill and that's it. Cleaning, passivization and assembly are all that remain, other than swapping out the 100A alternator for the 150A one. I've got a mounting board that already has the screws in the proper locations to be re-installed on the front wall of the truck bed, so the entire system will be assembled on the board and then mounted in the truck as a unit.

[myoldyourgold]

Gee Bio you really know how to put us to shame. LOL Good looking and I am sure it will work just as well too. Can hardly wait for the final results.

[BioFarmer93]

Just a little update.. The plates are cleaned the gaskets are made and washed, the last of the hardware is purchased and the assembly is underway. Plates need to be passivated this evening.

[myoldyourgold]

Bio, you are farther ahead than I am. I am still working on the math. 1+1 is still adding up to 11. Any suggestions?

[BioFarmer93]

Bio, you are farther ahead than I am. I am still working on the math. 1+1 is still adding up to 11. Any suggestions?

Jeez Carter,
I don't know- I get the same answer.. Oh wait! I know, ask Lee, he knows everything!!:D:D

[kimbo]

looks great bio... any chance of a pic with a matchbox or hand in it for scale?

[BioFarmer93]

looks great bio... any chance of a pic with a matchbox or hand in it for scale?

...Or maybe the ubiquitous plastic gallon jug?

[Darrell]

Very cool Bio! Can't wait to see some results.

Darrell

[myoldyourgold]

Gus I am glad you didn't use a pail or a bucket because just the words make me sick and laugh at the same time. LOL

[BioFarmer93]

Very cool Bio! Can't wait to see some results.

Darrell

Yeah, me too. There is going to be no bench testing per se. I do plan to make a series of videos for you guys and the non-believers on the diesel forum I belong to though. The idea is to show absolutely as much as possible about what is happening and the way it's hooked up etc., along with lpm measurements (for you guys) obtained with normal alternator output. Then, and this will be the hard part- I'm going to find a translucent container somewhere that is either already calibrated or I'll measure and calibrate, that I can use to hold diesel fuel. Then I'm going to route a temporary fuel line from it and a temporary return line to it. I think I'll throw together a cradle or support of some kind in the truck bed for the container. Then I'm going to have two electrical engineers and a mechanical engineer check everything over and and attest to the fact that all is on the level and is as I swear that it is. Then we're all going for a ride with a video camera and extra batteries. The guys over on the diesel forum are merciless and absolutely adamant that no gains are possible since the engine has to drive the alternator and that eats up any possible gains yada yada etc. etc... We've all heard it before. I very much look forward to serving them a heaping helping of crow..;)

[Darrell]

Bio, is this going to be 3 cells or 4? Also would like to see the comments of the douters when you serve it up to them. :D

What forum is that?

"D"

[kimbo]

my gosh.... it's a big one!.... cant wait for the results.... i've also got a trail of unbelivers i'd like to prove wrong.

[BioFarmer93]

Bio, is this going to be 3 cells or 4? Also would like to see the comments of the douters when you serve it up to them. :D

What forum is that?

"D"

Darrell,
It's a 7 group 5 plate (or 4 cell) per group unipolar reactor that takes advantage of the space saving and resistance minimizing construction technique that Larry (HHOPWR) utilized on his Magnetic Beastie. The diesel forum is Oilburners.com, they have a really active and informative area dedicated to the old idi 7.3's (pre-Powerstroke) like I have.

[Darrell]

Bio, can I ask why you chose to go to with a odd number of plates in each group? If I remember right, Larry went with a even amount (14 plates) in each group. Will you also have seperate tanks and bubblers as well?

Sorry for all the questions, just digging a little. LOL!!!

"D"

[BioFarmer93]

Darrell,
No prob.. The plate count doesn't matter in the same way that it does in a bipolar reactor as far as splitting the voltage, I went with 5 & could have easily gone with 4 because my plates are large, but then I couldn't try out my double reservoir idea. The current density is calculated to be very low since there is 225 sq. in per group times 7 groups. That works out to 1575 sq. in total for this reactor, and if you figure an eighth of an amp per sq. in., that still puts you at 196.875amps to drive this thing.. I have a feeling though, that it is going to do just fine at a much lower current density than that.
As for the separate tanks and bubblers- yes, but only two. A pos & a neg reservoir (Carter- I got brass hose couplers so I can test leakage for you) because I'm pretty sure that I can nullify any current leakage by having the end plates in a given section either pos or neg only- (can't do that with an even number) and pulling e-lyte from and pumping gas to a reservoir devoted to which ever polarity the end plates in that section are.

[kimbo]

maybe another dumb question (usually is with me), but how much elyte does 1 lpm use pm?... not much i bet.
in other words, how many liters of hho std (room temp and pressure) do you get from 1gram (1ml) of elyte?

[BioFarmer93]

Kimbo,
Sorry, I just can't remember right off the top of my head, but I did run across it some where recently... Check GoogleBooks for for texts on hydrogen.

[myoldyourgold]

maybe another dumb question (usually is with me), but how much elyte does 1 lpm use pm?... not much i bet.
in other words, how many liters of hho std (room temp and pressure) do you get from 1gram (1ml) of elyte?

Kimbo, maybe I am misunderstanding the question but the electrolyte theoretically does not get used up only water. In a well designed reactor only small amounts of electrolyte escapes and hopefully is trapped in a well designed bubbler or filter of some type.

[kimbo]

yeah... meant the water.

[H2OPWR]

If I remember correctly 1 liter of water is about 1700 liters of HHO.

Larry

[myoldyourgold]

yeah... meant the water.

Kimbo, you should be able to figure it out from here.


One liter of water has produced 55.52 moles of H2 and 27.76 moles of O2 for a combined total of 83.28 moles of gas. Each mole of gas occupies 22.4 liters, so 22.4*83.28 = 1865.5 liters of gas.

And thus we arrive at the answer: One liter of water makes 1865.5 liters of gas.

1.865 liters of HHO per gram.

[kimbo]

hmmm.....water usage is going to be more than expected...you guys producing large hho must have serious reservoirs!
6 lpm around 360 mls/h... just under 3 hrs per litre

[BioFarmer93]

...and fortunately I have two 4.75 liter reservoirs to use for this thing. I just found out that Home Depot no longer carries the EPDM on a roll anymore.. You have to buy a 10'x10' precut sheet @ ~$100 minimum. I was told it was a corporate decision. That really ****esmeoff because I need some more gaskets and didn't want to spend that much money, but I guess I'm gonna have to now. Had to make a run to ACE this morning for some more brass screws and nuts.. They get .95 cents apiece for 6-32x3" brass screws, good thing I only needed six more. Well, enough whining from me, here are a couple photos of the build to this point. Guess I'm gonna have to bite the bullet and buy that 10x10 'cause it wont make any gas looking like this...

[BioFarmer93]

Well, I got lucky- there is is landscape place down the street from me that also sells pond liner (EPDM). Same thickness but the price is actually better, .85 cents per sq. ft. and they sell by the foot also, so I was able to get what I needed... Now to cut out about 30 more gaskets.:rolleyes:

[Havens78]

Very nice, I've always wondered if "Bigger was better" on these cells and after installing a unit on a friends diesel farm equipment its been hard to not want to keep going bigger. Thank you for all the informative posts, i have enjoyed learning more about these systems.

[kimbo]

wow...already she is truly a thing of beauty! cant wait to hear the results. seeing how it should be done makes me want to build my next one ...NOW!

[BioFarmer93]

Kimbo- Thank you,
You must be like me and see the beauty of form following functionality, however I do owe Larry (HHOPWR) credit for streamlining the unipolar system into this particular format, as I shamelessly copied his layout even though our plates are very different.

[koya1893]

Gus,

I guess I'll just have to follow your effort. IRENE has put me out of commission for awhile to build anything. That's a great looking cell and BIG. I've shared your build with my freind in SD, he likes what he sees and will attemp to build one for testing for the T-58. He is looking at using 4' X 4' SS plates.

[BioFarmer93]

Gus,

I guess I'll just have to follow your effort. IRENE has put me out of commission for awhile to build anything. That's a great looking cell and BIG. I've shared your build with my freind in SD, he likes what he sees and will attemp to build one for testing for the T-58. He is looking at using 4' X 4' SS plates.

Ben,
At 2VDC, for a single positive and a single negative plate (1 cell) that's 1152A, or 2304watts...
Try to find out what DC voltage and amperage is available on this thing and let's try to design something appropriate for it. I have a feeling that the percentages just are not going to work out well for a turbine though. It just moves so much air through itself, approximately 13.7 lb/s (11,000 cfm) @ 27,300 rpm. The amount of HHO that would need to be produced to show any effect at all would most likely consume the entire output of the generator!:eek::D

[Darrell]

Hows your project going Bio?

Darrell

[BioFarmer93]

Hows your project going Bio?

Darrell

Not bad, was just starting to stack the final section when I saw your post. I need one more spring (lost one) and two more feet of black rubber vacuum hose to chop into bolt covers to finish the brick. I realized as I got about four groups into this build that I had inadvertently nullified the the need of using a positive and a negative reservoir because all of the first and last plates in every group work out to be the same polarity... -Sorry Carter, I was looking forward to testing that theory for you.

I'll trade someone a dozen lightly used nylon elbows 3/8-18 to 3/8 hose barb for at least 10 used nylon or HDPE 3/8-18 to 3/8 hose barb straight transitions.

[Darrell]

I have a couple of springs here but I am sure you could get them before I could probably shipped them. Hardly wait to see that thing run.:D

I have one on the bench conditioning and have some new ideas for the new plate design that may need you help.

Hurry up a finish that thing all ready, inquiring minds want to know.......:rolleyes:

"D"

[BioFarmer93]

I appreciate it man, but like you said... A trip to Ace is on the schedule today anyway. The 3/8x3/8 transitions are the hard one's to find locally. Yesterday I picked up a 300A battery isolation switch and on my way back from the hardware store I have to stop by Pep boys and order this 200A continuous duty solenoid that they went out of their way to locate for me, said they'd have it in Monday. The only thing that gives me any trepidation is substituting the 150A GM style alternator for the existing 100A Ford alternator, and figuring out which wire now goes where... Here are photos of the switch and solenoid.

[Darrell]

That's funny, I just bought and installed a new 200amp solenoid and 100 amp curcut breaker on my truck a couple of weeks ago. I picked mine up at the audio store hear in Portland.

"D"

[BioFarmer93]

Well, I have to admit that I’m pretty frustrated right now. The tabs on my plates were never designed to be drilled to accept bolts and nuts, and I should have just left well enough alone. I got the BioBeast completely assembled last night and torqued down.
Then I began continuity testing.. What a disaster! There was barely enough clearance in several places to spin the nuts (all 6-32 brass hardware) and obviously NOT enough clearance in other places. I had continuity in over 80% of my plates. At around 11:30 last night I started taking it back apart and taking all of the brass hardware off of it, I’m going back to my modified bayonet sleeves. I only went with the standard bolted connection out of peer pressure anyway… Never again.

[myoldyourgold]

[QUOTE]I only went with the standard bolted connection out of peer pressure anyway… Never again./QUOTE]

Bio, with out a redesign of your plates and or shaving of the heads/nuts of some of the screws you will have this problem but not impossible. Give it a closer look. I had to go through 4 sets of plates before I got it right but was able to make them all work just not ideal with out the additional redesign. I found it worth while though in the long run. All connections are exactly the same and no loss with less resistance in each connection.

[Darrell]

Bio, what I have done was either used a bench grinder to shave the heads of the bolts prior to assembly or used a angle grinder between the the bolts after it was assembled. The blade on the angle grinder was just the right witd for spacing.

Hope that helps and hang in there. "D"

[BioFarmer93]

Thanks guys for the support. The 6-32 hardware is already so small that resistance/contact area has been a concern of mine anyway. I have described before the mods I made on the sleeve connectors to get much greater contact area with them, so I wont go into it again now, They handled 140A for hours on end in the prior incarnation, so I have little worry they'll be able to handle the paltry 60-80A available to them this time around.

[lhazleton]

Gus,
This is totally unacceptable!:mad:
I went on vacation for a few weeks under the assumption that the Beastie would be a complete, operational unit by the time I returned. Once again, you've done ****ed me off, pal.:eek:
Did ya miss me???????????:D

[BioFarmer93]

LEE! You fricken slacker! Carter and I got stuck pullin' double shifts coverin' for your lazy butt! Vacation huh? You got a rich ol' lady or somethin'? I thought your broke butt was out of a job.. At least that's the sob story you gave us, BUDDY. I bet you're rakin' it in on the side sellin 3 neutral steam machines on ebay under a fake name, arentcha? Well? whatcha gotta say fer yerself anyway??:mad:

[Darrell]

It's about time you showed your face Lee! With all that money you better be building something cool......

Welcome back. "D" :D

[myoldyourgold]

Less here I was just getting ready to send a search party out for you. Glad it was just a vacation. You got lots of catching up to do!!! Get you skinny fanny in gear. LOL

[koya1893]

Gus,
Once my shop at home is all back together I will start on my new design from your unipolar. I guess you can call it "Vertical" version, I've been toying with while away and waiting for insurance to get their act together to re-build the house and garage. I am still shooting for a compact design for a unipolar, by the way the glue I am testing to glue the HDPE is holding submerged in my NaOH misture.

[BioFarmer93]

Hey Ben,
It's been a while- I take it from your post that you got slammed, flooded or both when the hurricane turned inland. Sorry to hear that, man. So what glue are you using that's working so well, and has it been exposed to any heat yet?

[Darrell]

Any Gas yet???? Inquiring minds want to know......:D


"D"

[BioFarmer93]

Any Gas yet???? Inquiring minds want to know......:D

"D"

Only the kind from mixing Lasagna, ice cream and Goldschlager.... Butt, I did just get back from Home Depot with 10' more of 3/8" i.d. hose, and all of the nylon 3/8" barbed"T" fittings they had on the shelf. I still need about 10 more, and I still need about 75 SAE #5 SS screw type hose clamps- of which they had zippo, nada, zilch... I'm emailing corporate after I finish this post, because I'm so tired of H-D not having the the appropriate matching hardware.. If you sell 3/8" nylon hose barb fittings, and you sell 3/8" i.d. reinforced 5/8" o.d. clear poly hose, then you should sell hose clamps that fit the hose, not something that is just a tiny bit too small with the the next size up being way too big. It just stands to reason... Anyway, enough whining- here are three photos I took just a minute ago. Electrical connections are next, I'm still deciding whether to mod my old ones or buy new parts, this thing is getting expensive :eek: (again), just glad I could re-use a bunch of the old elbows.

[lhazleton]

Lookin' really good, Gus!
Maybe, whenever you get the Beastie done, you'll build something big for a change?:D

[BioFarmer93]

Awww man, come on... This one's only 35 plates, that's less than half the first one. I have enough plates left to do the Mercedes and the Honda...:D:D

[Bazarommcmullen]

Can't wait to see some results. This thing is a beasty beut. I am still making very slow progress on mine.

[BioFarmer93]

VIN 1GTHK33F0RJ737771
1994 K3500 crew cab 4x4 non- dually
Walt's Air Filter Upgrade
4" Turbo Back Exaust
No Muffler no Cat
Homemade Boost Controller
Boost Gauge, EGT Gauge, Trans Temp
B&M Transmission Aluminum Pan
Remote PMD with #9
Marine Injectors
Aftermarket cylinder heads
Walt's cooling upgrade w/Duramax fan and clutch.
199,000 miles
BF Goodrich A/T's. 265/75-R16

BeeZeeMac! where have you been man? I was lookin' at the 3500's stats in your sig and realized that you're not running water/alcohol.. That's sorta like doing the least to get the most in our rigs, you know? Even running WMO in Henry, when I pulled a glowplug the day before yesterday it looked almost like it did when it was installed a year and a half ago- I should have taken a pic.. Also a pretty safe way to bump up the mileage and power a bit too... Isn't that something that was on your to-do list?
Take a couple of pics, it doesn't matter how much you have done yet, we just love photos!

[Bazarommcmullen]

Now I agree that water meth is an excelent adder for milege power and intercoooling. I just have not got around to it yet. my truck is in need of it also. I have been collecting parts but you know time and well more time. I have been flying around the country bouncing out of airports like a jiggalo so HHO and water meth have been on the back burner for a bit. That does not meen I havn't been reading, researching, and visiting the forum.

Question? Are you refering Henry as the name of your truck? That would be too funny.

[BioFarmer93]

Funny? Huh, never gave it a second thought.. We have always named our vehicles in my family and my wife's family. The wife's car is Che' which is a Spanish nickname for Mercedes (my wife is Cuban) My F350 is Henry the Ford, or Henry the Hydrogen Ford when the system is installed.
Vehicles I've owned over the years include Beau, a Chevy 8 passenger van, Bonnie, an (of course) Bonneville, Big Blue, an F150, Little Red, the ex-wife's Ranger, Sex Toy, my old Harley, Capricious, a '71 Chevy Caprice coup with an amazing small block 400, Offal the Opel- a 1900 Opel wagon that was a complete piece of junk, and finally (actually the very first) was the Mad Maverick, a 1970 blue Ford Maverick with an inline six, three-on-the-tree, no A/C, no radio and a never say die attitude (as long as you re-tightened the carb onto the manifold about every 300 miles or so...)

[Bazarommcmullen]

The funny part is the name of my truck is also henry. THis is because I have always been partial to fords and anti GM. When I totaled my 97 F150 I wanted to move up to a crew cab diesel. I could not A ford a ford so to speak so I ended up with my GMC. I named it Henry in liu of Henry Ford. I wanted to pay cash and I wanted 4X4 and crew cab and diesel and it had to be a turbo diesel. So I settled on the GMC as all of the power strokes were out of my price range.

[Darrell]

Only the kind from mixing Lasagna, ice cream and Goldschlager.... Butt, I did just get back from Home Depot with 10' more of 3/8" i.d. hose, and all of the nylon 3/8" barbed"T" fittings they had on the shelf. I still need about 10 more, and I still need about 75 SAE #5 SS screw type hose clamps- of which they had zippo, nada, zilch... I'm emailing corporate after I finish this post, because I'm so tired of H-D not having the the appropriate matching hardware.. If you sell 3/8" nylon hose barb fittings, and you sell 3/8" i.d. reinforced 5/8" o.d. clear poly hose, then you should sell hose clamps that fit the hose, not something that is just a tiny bit too small with the the next size up being way too big. It just stands to reason... Anyway, enough whining- here are three photos I took just a minute ago. Electrical connections are next, I'm still deciding whether to mod my old ones or buy new parts, this thing is getting expensive :eek: (again), just glad I could re-use a bunch of the old elbows.

Nice work Bio! It looks like a Jet Pack. "D"

[Darrell]

Any gas Yet Bio?

Hey I might need your CAD help with the new project I am starting. Like to get Myold involved as well, so we cover every little detail. Has allot of technical stuff involved and may yeild some great results.

You guys interested?? If so, I could send both of you what I have so far.


Let me know. "D"

[BioFarmer93]

Nope,
I'm hung up on finding SAE#8 SS hose clamps, and I need about 75 of them.. Guess I'll have to order on-line because H-D won't order them for me. I made a big push to get it where it is now, so I must work on the other projects I neglected for a couple of weeks. Pretty much everything is finished though. The weatherman says it is supposed to rain this weekend, so I should be able to get several hours in on it- connections this time.

Check your PM folder....

[BioFarmer93]

-Come to find out they are not #8's,they're #5's, and virtually impossible to find so I'm making the #4's work by oh-so-carefully installing them. It takes a pair of pliers to hold the band in the screw housing until the screw can bite the thread slots on the band- royal PITA to be sure.

Anyway- every now and then something shakes loose upstairs and I get a semi-original idea. At least I think it is, as I haven't seen one before. You guys be the judges, see attached jpg.

[Darrell]

Now that's a Mcgyver thought if I ve ever seen one. :D

Nice Job Bio! I think will will do this as well.

"D"

[Havens78]

That's way to simple, can you think of a more complicated way to attach it? :) Looks great, nice and simple.

[lhazleton]

Anyway- every now and then something shakes loose upstairs and I get a semi-original idea. At least I think it is, as I haven't seen one before. You guys be the judges, see attached jpg.

But Gus, there are no paper clips nor rubber bands! What kind of high tech crapola ya pushin', eh?:D
Seriously, very simple, clever idea!

[BioFarmer93]

Thanks guys-:D I thought y'all might get a kick out of it.. I'm redoing the bubblers this evening, and if things go well time-wise I'll fabricate a fuse holder for the huge 100A "glows-when-blows" smart fuse I picked up at Pep-Boys... Which apparently they have never carried a holder for.:rolleyes: Anyway, I see this little widget greatly simplifying the way we go about getting those really fine bubbles that are needed for good clean gas. Oh, the bit is a 7/16" (NPT calls for 29/64" but I go a hair smaller in plastics) and the thread is 1/2"-20.
Have fun!

[hhoconnection]

Where do you get those airstones?

[Havens78]

Are these the airstones you use Gus?

Found them here doing research, can't remember who posted them as my memory isn't what it used to be.

http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/1560/Porous-Plastic-Diffusers/air%20stone/4

[BioFarmer93]

Are these the airstones you use Gus?

Found them here doing research, can't remember who posted them as my memory isn't what it used to be.

http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/1560/Porous-Plastic-Diffusers/air%20stone/4

Yes, those are they, er them are those, I mean those are them.... uh, them's the ones ayup...

Carter posted that link I believe..

[hhoconnection]

Are these the airstones you use Gus?

Found them here doing research, can't remember who posted them as my memory isn't what it used to be.

http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/1560/Porous-Plastic-Diffusers/air%20stone/4

That's perfect, thanks! Boy that is a real easy solution. I just made one with a 3" disc on the bottom of the bubbler. Still waiting for the glue to dry to test it. This would have been a lot easier.

[BioFarmer93]

Here are a few photos of the finished product, I think I like this method...:D

[Darrell]

Gus, are all the tubes and PVC fittings 2"? Maybe we could get the full parts list and then post all of it together. And if we are lucky HHO connection can post one of those great video's:D

Just my 2 pennies....

"D"

[BioFarmer93]

Gus, are all the tubes and PVC fittings 2"? Maybe we could get the full parts list and then post all of it together. And if we are lucky HHO connection can post one of those great video's:D

Just my 2 pennies....

"D"

Sure, no prob..

1- micro porous polyethylene aquarium air diffuser - http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/1560/Porous-Plastic-Diffusers/air%20stone/4
1- Oaty 33401 2" mechanical pressure test plug
1- 18" piece of clear sch.40 PVC pipe
1- 2" PVC repair coupler
1- 2" PVC end cap
2- 3/8-18npt x 3/8 hose barb nylon elbows
1- 7/16" drill bit
1- 1/2-20 tap

[Darrell]

Gus, any gas yet? Haven't worked on mine the last 2 weeks due to working over 70 each week. I have the next 4 days of and hope to make some progress though. D

[BioFarmer93]

Hey Darrell,
Nope, no gas yet- too many other irons in the fire... One that I HAVE to finish tonight is a Gray-Hoverman UHF/digital antenna for the camper out at the property. We'll be spending the next 4 days out there trying to make some progress.. Any correspondence I do with the forum after tonight until Sunday night will be through my iPhone and I hate typing on that tiny keyboard so my responses will be accordingly brief...

[Darrell]

Just thought I would check in and see what everyone was doing. Hopefully I will have some pictures to share soon. Have a good Turkey day tomorrow.

Talk with you soon. "D"

[BioFarmer93]

Thanks, man- y'all do the same. -And remember, pie IS a food group!

[Darrell]

We know this....;)

[BioFarmer93]

Just a little teaser actually, showing what the final choice for connection method is going to be. Now out to the gara- er, shop to finish up the antenna...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FYkqoe9JTu0

[Havens78]

I can hardly wait to start my build in January. Thanks for the vid Bio.

[Darrell]

Looks good Gus. Can't wait to see some gas production from that beast. I have 4 groups built so far on my build (2 groups between each set of endplates). I decided to use the round plates I already have. My build will have only 6 groups 5 plates each. I may add the 7th group later.

Anyway keep plugging on the beast. "D"

[BioFarmer93]

I have 4 groups built so far on my build (2 groups between each set of endplates).

(Visualize Tim Allen here, going "Errrrgghhhh??") OK, you have definitely got my attention here, man- please to be esplainin' how that works- enquiring minds want to know.,..:confused::confused:

[myoldyourgold]

I just sent you an email with the explanation. Great work again Bio. Your detail is very good.

[Darrell]

Had to watch the video again. LOL I think we truly need to rename this project.
We should call it the Bio Jet Pack. It look like you could just strap it on and lite the candles. Hee Hee! But very impressive!

"D"

[BioFarmer93]

Had to watch the video again. LOL I think we truly need to rename this project.
We should call it the Bio Jet Pack. It look like you could just strap it on and lite the candles. Hee Hee! But very impressive!

"D"

That's OK Darrell, on the first iteration of this thing when it was four individual rectors and eight bubblers, my wife said I'd never make it to work without getting stopped by the police because "it looks like a rocket launcher".. :eek::rolleyes:

[kimbo]

hi bio... been away for a while...so i hav'nt seen this video or any new pics of the beast.... can i have a quick update please?

[BioFarmer93]

Hey Kimbo,
It's all here, just go back a page or two on this thread, as for videos, if you miss the links in the posts, just search clflyguy on Youtube.;)

[dixiepc]

I've been following this for some time now. Has anymore progress been made? Would really like to know how this unit produces.

Thanks

[BioFarmer93]

I'm currently working on a half a dozen other projects (non-HHO related) and can't get to the Biobeast for a couple more weeks. Really just down to making the rest of the electrical connections and mounting everything up- so close I can taste it, but just out of reach!

[lhazleton]

Any day Gus, any day.........
Take your time, but HURRY UP! :D

[danser75]

Well that took about an hour. LOL I just rolled across this topic and read it begining to end. Its an amazing setup. Good job Gus! I wish I had found this before I started the work on my reactor. Just one question though. Where did you get that thick of a cutting board? I would like to be able to "borrow" your idea there that you "borrowed" but my plates are not thick enough to allow drilling from the ends. My local walmart and menards is the only place I can find affordable plastic cutting boards. But they only carry a couple types the thickest is 3/8".

[BioFarmer93]

Hey Danser,
Those are made of 1" HDPE from www.thecuttingboardfactory.com

They have excellent prices and fast shipping- I've ordered from them twice now and they go out of their way to make sure you get exactly what you want.

[danser75]

I see they all have a lifetime warranty. You think we would qualify if one should ever break? LOL. I would love to see their reaction if we sent it in though.

[dixiepc]

Bio,

Can you explain what you meant in post #31 about nullifing the need for using positive and negitive bubblers?

Thanks

[BioFarmer93]

Sure Dixie, no prob.. Based on some discussion that myoldyourgold and I had a while back, I determined that to eleminate current leakage through the electrolyte, I would use two reservoirs. I based that design on an early decision to use six plates per group which would have made the first and last plates in each group opposite polarity's. HOWEVER, I determined later in the build that the current density would be a bit too low in that configuration so I removed one plate per group, thereby causing the first and last plate in all groups to be the same polarity (don't forget this is a unipolar build) and negating the need of separate positive and negative reservoirs. It still remains to be seen though, if there will be current leakage through the electrolyte between the first and last groups...

[dixiepc]

Bio,

If that is the case it will greatly simplify the plumbing. What configuration do you currently have your plates arranged?

[BioFarmer93]

I doubt the configuration has a name- but there are only two ways it can be done (that I know of/can figure out) so I'll just have to show you...

[dixiepc]

Thanks Bio, I see that the outside plates in each group are positive. What I don't understand is how the negitive turns into positive at each divider. I might be missing something simple.

[BioFarmer93]

I can't explain it coherently and only understand it intuitively myself in that it can be no other way by the law of opposites... Sorry.

[dixiepc]

Thanks, I'll be waiting to see how it works when you get the time to jump back on it.

[danser75]

Hey Gus just wondering. What is the weight of this thing, approx.

Also How is it coming along? Any new progress?

[Madsceintist]

Wouldn't it be best to swap the polarity ? More Hydro than Oxy.

[BioFarmer93]

Hey Gus just wondering. What is the weight of this thing, approx.

Also How is it coming along? Any new progress?

It weighs 56 lbs. Sorry, no progress in the last 3 weeks- still sitting @ 98.5%... Ridiculous, I know- and now I've misplaced my entire bag of connectors and have to conduct a safari into the dark depths of the Bio-lab (my garage) to find them.


-Madscientist
Wouldn't it be best to swap the polarity ? More Hydro than Oxy.

I used to think it could work that way also- but it can't/doesn't... Think about it from the molecular standpoint, H2O - when you split it, you can get nothing else but H2 and O(1) Any other ratio is impossible;):cool:

[Darrell]

Gee Gus, I will send ya the parts. Let s get that thing rocken already. :cool:


"D"

[BioFarmer93]

Gee Gus, I will send ya the parts. Let s get that thing rocken already. :cool:


"D"

Darrell, I think since it's going to be a yuck weekend, I'm gonna see if I can't actually get motivated and finish it.. It's so close- I don't really know what my problem is..

[iger13]

I doubt the configuration has a name- but there are only two ways it can be done (that I know of/can figure out) so I'll just have to show you...

Why you using 5 plates and not lets say 7 or 9?
Have you been in Sarasota last November?

[BioFarmer93]

Why you using 5 plates and not lets say 7 or 9?
Have you been in Sarasota last November?

The more plates, the more plate area, the more plate area the more amps necessary to drive it, the more amps needed the greater the drag on the alternator. As it is now I'm having to replace my 100A alternator with a 150A alt.
-No, I haven't been to the HHO games for a couple of years now...

[Madsceintist]

I sent an email a month ago to someone that's supposed to oversee the games, to find out when and where they would be, and have had NO response. Any info on that ?

[Madsceintist]

I used to think it could work that way also- but it can't/doesn't... Think about it from the molecular standpoint, H2O - when you split it, you can get nothing else but H2 and O(1) Any other ratio is impossible;):cool:



BIOFARMER93;
The NEGATIVE plate creates the H2 and the POSITIVE creates the O. I played with this a little in a 30 gallon drum, and various electrodes. One I found really cool was a 12 inch threaded rod(stainless), and a 2 inch(diameter) stainless tube 10 inches long, i dumped an entire box of baking soda in it as well. The rod was pos, and the tube was neg. off my car running a few feet away. The tube was putting out a lot of H2 and the rod was putting out a good bit of O, but how do you determine that the production is equivalent to 2 to 1, being as there was a much greater amount of negative surface?
I drained and rinsed the drum, then filled it with tap from the hose, to test my 36 inch long assembly 2 inch outside, 1 5/8 inside tube. Outside being negative and inside pos. Off the car then a 12 volt charger(which actually charges at 9 volts @ 2, 10 or 50 amp). The car had some production, but the charger had better! Thing is 2 amps got an amazing amount of production but only after having the charger on 50 amp for a few seconds. Leaving it on 2 amps kept up the great production for a really long time. I tried this several times. Same results.

Edit, the second half i had no electrolyte

[Weapon_R]

Madsceintist this is very interesting but not surprising. Not able to explain it but maybe the 50 amps had charged the water somehow or create a greater conc. of ions between the plates.

[danser75]

Iger13 How many volts are you running. If it is over 8-9 you may want to consider another plate or two per cell. But you need to know that adding plates wont get you more amps as much as it will just bring down your voltage per plate gap and make your unit run cooler and more efficient. The optimal voltage is from 1.5-2.3 volts per gap, depending on who you talk to. So for the sake of argument I would suggest shoot for around 2 volts. But how much plate gap do you have in there because at a typical 1/8 inch or 3mm gap you should be pulling about .5 amps per sq. inch. But looks like your gaskets are thicker than that and you are only using about 3/4 of your plates. you may want to look into another form of gasket if you are going to add the plates it would be the perfect time to make a switch like that. I have fount that my local interdependent hardware store carries 1/8 inch rubber gasket material. It comes 36 inches wide and any length you want/ need. Its 7.99 a foot. Also it cuts nice with a normal utility knife and steel ruler. Or there are numerous other places to order the gasket material from. The most common seems to be Neoprene. I do have to say it looks like a well built setup. Its also ascetically pleasing. This is nothing more than a few thoughts to help guide you in the process of making your cool unit better.

[Darrell]

Sounds good Gus hope to see some gas soon. "D"

[BioFarmer93]

I sent an email a month ago to someone that's supposed to oversee the games, to find out when and where they would be, and have had NO response. Any info on that ?

E-MAIL ISSUES WITH US?

10:22PM ET, Oct. 17, 2011 -- We believe there's been a problem in receiving our e-mail as we get messages from multiple folks saying they sent stuff we've never received. To help, I've re-posted our e-mail address (joe@hhogames.com) above, and if you have not gotten a response to any email you sent to me, please let me know ASAP. We do respond to all our e-mail, and it bugs us that we may have missed some.

-OR-

Call Joe at (941)462-2616

[BioFarmer93]

This is what i build last summer. It's a 6 group 5 plate unipolar,plates are 8x3,was thinking to add 2 plates to get more amps and gas (with 28%KOH I'm getting 27A).Will appreciate your opinion.

Iger13,
That is a good looking system with an interesting layout- would you mind posting a few more photos of it, from several different angles & perhaps at a slightly larger size? We love photos-:D:D

[Madsceintist]

I'll give him a call soon, that's the same email I sent to before. Just checked out-mail, that was it. (Jan. 13,2012)
Thanks much BIO.

My bad that date was supposed to be 2011 ..........

[BioFarmer93]

I'm glad you posted that- I've always wondered why the original Biobeast which was a four group reactor would clamp the voltage at 8V... -No matter what amperage I threw at it, even at 140A+ it still was steady as a rock at 8V. Now you state that three groups of your 6 group reactor will allow only 6V. Please do me (and all of us) a favor and check the voltage each time you bring a new group on line, I''m thinking that you're going to see 2V jumps with each new group.

[iger13]

I used to think it could work that way also- but it can't/doesn't... Think about it from the molecular standpoint, H2O - when you split it, you can get nothing else but H2 and O(1) Any other ratio is impossible;):cool:

When I made 1st unit with acrylic end plates i could see activity on last ss plates ,don't know why and how but you can see babbles. Now I connect 2 plates pos,3 neg.

[myoldyourgold]

The reason you see some action on the last plate is because I think it turns bipolar and gets some (small) connection from the electrolyte. Weldon on the end plate should solve this problem. I could be wrong but I have seen it too, in one of my clear plastic test reactors. It stopped when I insulated all the plates port's with Weldon but you might only need to do the last plate to discourage it.

[iger13]

The reason you see some action on the last plate is because I think it turns bipolar and gets some (small) connection from the electrolyte. Weldon on the end plate should solve this problem. I could be wrong but I have seen it too, in one of my clear plastic test reactors. It stopped when I insulated all the plates port's with Weldon but you might only need to do the last plate to discourage it.

Why you think it is a problem,you geting more gas?

[myoldyourgold]

Because it is not making more gas it is just making it in a different spot where it is not as efficient. 1 amp makes x amount of gas maximum. Very few people are making 100%. So you want to try and make it the most efficient way and making gas on that plate from current leakage is just robing it from a more efficient cell.

[BioFarmer93]

IGER13,
just be sure to media blast or sand and clean with alcohal ANY place that will receive the Weldon- otherwise it will peel off the plate... Thank you for the voltage report, did you apply the same power to 1, then 2, then all 3 groups?

[dixiepc]

I am interested in iger13's progress but this thread has gotten away from the progress of the BioBeast. Maybe iger13 needs to have a seperate thread.

[BioFarmer93]

I just reply to request to post some pictures and to share some info that maybe helpful to others.

That is true, you did. I was not insistent that you follow proper posting etiquette when perhaps I should have been. Your project is important and deserves its own thread, and my thread is capable of getting off track all by itself- just ask Lee...:rolleyes::D

[BioFarmer93]

Found my connectors!! Woo-hooooo!!!!!:d;)

[iger13]

That is true, you did. I was not insistent that you follow proper posting etiquette when perhaps I should have been. Your project is important and deserves its own thread, and my thread is capable of getting off track all by itself- just ask Lee...:rolleyes::D

Sorry, it probably was misunderstanding.

[BioFarmer93]

Got motivated today and made the connectors, now I need to join the supply wires at each end and passivate. After this it's just mounting and plumbing...:D
Here are some photos of the connectors.

[myoldyourgold]

Gus, as usual your builds are superb!! WOW I like it. I just can not wait to watch that turkey run!! Your the MAN!!

[H2OPWR]

Gus, I agree with Carter. Nice work. Boy do all those electrical connections bring back memories.

Larry

[BioFarmer93]

Thanks guys,
I know that I've stretched this out too long, but sometimes that's just the way things work out...
Larry, are you working on anything these days? I think I'm going to be able to devote almost the whole day to it tomorrow- keeping my fingers crossed anyway.

Take care- Gus

[lhazleton]

Well Gus, are ya done yet?:D

[BioFarmer93]

Well Gus, are ya done yet?:D

Almost bubba, almost... I dug out the mounting board this evening and measured a few things, looks like it's gonna be a tight fit, but it will fit, so that's a relief. I made up bubbler brackets out of some PVC 2" repair couplers I had. I think the pieces that encircle the bubbler will be fine, but the piece I'm using for the standoff is a little iffy- might be better to go with a piece of sch.40 4" for the added wall thickness. Anyway, this is where it's at as of close of business tonight...

[lhazleton]

The Monster's looking really beautiful, Gus!
Can't wait to see a video of it in operation with you in the background yelling "IT'S ALIVE", complete, of course, with the sounds of a violent thunderstorm raging nearby...............:rolleyes:

[BioFarmer93]

The Monster's looking really beautiful, Gus!
Can't wait to see a video of it in operation with you in the background yelling "IT'S ALIVE", complete, of course, with the sounds of a violent thunderstorm raging nearby...............:rolleyes:

Can Do! Florida is the lightning capital of the world, so shouldn't be a problem... :D

[Weapon_R]

Bio that is surely one awesome build. Most impressive.
May I ask what is the purpose of this cell and what do you hope to achieve?
Also what are those bars connection the plates?

[BioFarmer93]

Bio that is surely one awesome build. Most impressive.
May I ask what is the purpose of this cell and what do you hope to achieve?
Also what are those bars connection the plates?

Thank you, but I'm afraid it is already a dinosaur.

Its purpose is to as efficiently as possible provide a large quantity of HHO to my mechanically injected 7.3L non-computer controlled diesel.

I hope to achieve the ability to turn my fuel delivery screw down approximately 120 degrees of arc, retard my injection timing by 2 degrees, and increase my mileage by 3-5 mpg.

Those bars connection the plates are bars connecting the plates.;):D

[Weapon_R]

With that thing I am sure you could achieve more than 3-5 mpg.
What type of material are you using for bolt covers?
Looks like rubber or plastic of some sort. Also what bolt size are you using?

[Darrell]

Looks great Gus! Can't wait to see it running.

"D"

[BioFarmer93]

With that thing I am sure you could achieve more than 3-5 mpg.
What type of material are you using for bolt covers?
Looks like rubber or plastic of some sort. Also what bolt size are you using?

1/4" i.d. rubber vacuum hose

1/4-20 threaded rods, 16-1/2" long

[BioFarmer93]

Looks great Gus! Can't wait to see it running.

"D"

Thanks Darrell- me too! looks like this weekend I should (hopefully) be through with the passivation and run my first output tests- I actually built a eudiometer this time, so you know I'm serious.. LOLOL!!

[Weapon_R]

1/4" i.d. rubber vacuum hose

1/4-20 threaded rods, 16-1/2" long

Thanks Bio!:)

[Madsceintist]

That supposed to read 30-50 mpg ?? :confused:

Looks like it could run a tank by its self.
Whats the weight ?

[BioFarmer93]

That supposed to read 30-50 mpg ?? :confused:

Looks like it could run a tank by its self.
Whats the weight ?

56lbs. Dry...

[Darrell]

Gus did you get any further on the build?

[BioFarmer93]

Gus did you get any further on the build?

:D Yes I did Darrell, it's finally all done, I just need to lift it up into the truck bed and hook everything up... This is what it looks like with all the plumbing-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4fbJW5TLBA&list=UUG9Os5VCh8WBis1CxpUjA3Q&index=1&feature=plcp

[myoldyourgold]

Now that is one Beast alright. Excellent build Gus. You always enjoy putting me to shame with such good builds. LOL I am just waiting for the results which should be excellent.

[koya1893]

Gus,
I think calling that a "work of ART" is an under statement. Having said that, I have new data on how much per 1 liter of engine displacement works best. I will start a new post to discuss it. Brovo Zulu on your build. VERY NICE.

[BioFarmer93]

Carter and Ben,
Thanks guys for the kind words, and my apologies for taking so long. I'm going to try to remember to pick up several gallons of distilled water on the way home tomorrow so I can start passivating this thing. If it's not windy, I'm going to make some HHO bubble towers with a bubbler stone in a pan of extra soapy water and light them off for the neighbor kids. (After the bubble towers are floating away from the output :eek:;):D)

[Darrell]

No Gus, thanks to you for sharing this great build. It give new meaning to hard work and determination. "D"

[Havens78]

Wow, that looks great.


I agree that there needs to be a user warning on all unipolar builds though to just simply double what you think you're going to spend on it.

[danser75]

Gus that looks great! Now just to wrestle it in place and bolt it up. Then try to convince the cops its not a meth lab or anything. LOL. But you know we all gotta keep them on their toes. :D:eek:

[BioFarmer93]

Gus that looks great! Now just to wrestle it in place and bolt it up. Then try to convince the cops its not a meth lab or anything. LOL. But you know we all gotta keep them on their toes. :D:eek:

Yeah, seriously..
The first time around I had to convince the guard at the parking garage that it was absolutely NOT a bomb, no matter that it looked like something out of a science fiction movie.. Then my wife didn't help matters when she told one of her friends at work that it looked like a rocket launcher (all the bubblers), and if you ever played "post office" when you were a kid, you can almost guess what happened next.. Another "friend" had heard the story third or fourth hand and told my wife's boss, who then approached her and very seriously asked if it was true that her husband had a rocket launcher in the back of his truck.. It took a good three minutes for her to stop laughing long enough to explain..

[Sodbuster]

Just read 15 pages, Dang.... Biofarmer nice work!!!

New to this Forum "WOW" HHO generators have come along ways.

[BioFarmer93]

Just read 15 pages, Dang.... Biofarmer nice work!!!

New to this Forum "WOW" HHO generators have come along ways.

Thanks Sodbuster, but all is not perfect in paradise tonight... I have some strangeness going on that has me stumped, but the only thing I can think of is that there is a physical mass (wad of crap) clogging the bubbler inlet- if anyone can think of any other reason, please speak up.. The problem is outlined here-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&list=UUG9Os5VCh8WBis1CxpUjA3Q&v=4jLTw2pKLPU

[BioFarmer93]

Madman, Igor, Darrell, Larry, a little something of passing interest...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zGDnTDGLh6A

[iger13]

Madman, Igor, Darrell, Larry, a little something of passing interest...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zGDnTDGLh6A

Thanks' Gus, very interesting.
About the problem, I would try to blow throw hose to see if the problem in hoses, if not I would look for electrical.

[myoldyourgold]

Gus, can you time how long it lasts with the meter hooked up to it or how low it goes before you get tired of waiting. LOL Also short it out and see how much it comes back to. I would like to compare to what results I found.

[Madsceintist]

Bio;
Please don't get ****ed at me . You have a beautiful setup, massive as h**l. But nice !! One thing, the candescent dryer... You ever work with air conditioning before ? That stuff is going to soak up all it can as long as it can. It seeks out moisture ! Which means it will take it out of your bubbler by microscopic drop after drop. Just saying.......

I don't think you have a mass other than the unit, try to to just use or ground one cell at a time see what you get ! I'm thinking to much metal too little power ???????? :confused:
The voltage without power .......... My first cell did that every time, the hotter it was the more voltage it would put out on its own. I'd drive on it maybe 30 mins. then check it with and without power hooked up ; here's some of my results.
Ignition off, after used 30 mins. wiring intact(relay cut off), 2.47 volts hot, 10 min later 1.61 volts, 30 mins later .09 volts.
Run again 30 mins, ignition off, wiring disconnected from unit; 5.73 volts hot, 10 mins. later 2.79 volts, 30 mins. later 1.01 volts.
I think that with the wiring disconnected that the amp meter wasn't pulling voltage, hence the higher voltage ! ? But i did the same test the same way so the only change was the wiring.

[Darrell]

Madman, Igor, Darrell, Larry, a little something of passing interest...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zGDnTDGLh6A

I can get my 2 LED lights that are behind my bubblers to run for about 4 minutes before they go out. I also noticed that the charge will also begin to build after they are unhooked. Some of the UNI's I have built have also made voltage when most all of the elite was drained out of the reactor. Crazy stuff!

"D"

[Sodbuster]

I'm no expert but first thing that comes to mind is somewhere during assembly POS + and NEG - are backward or out of order. From the looks of your vids you went into great detail keeping things clean during assembly so I would start with wiring .... do to plate configuration ( nice work) ... :)

[myoldyourgold]

Gus, take the tube off the active bubbler and plug it with your thumb long enough to get the other bubbler functioning. If that doesn't work then there is something plugged. If it does then there is some imbalance and the gas is going to the week side.

[Darrell]

Gus, take the tube off the active bubbler and plug it with your thumb long enough to get the other bubbler functioning. If that doesn't work then there is something plugged. If it does then there is some imbalance and the gas is going to the week side.

Yep, I am thinking the same thing. The water level is lower on the right bubbler side than the left. "D"

[myoldyourgold]

Gus, I looked at the video again and and this is a possible scenario. When you first started there was no production for some time while pressure was building to clear the lines and overcome the back pressure. As soon as this process completed it started bubbling in both bubblers. A very slight imbalance which increases the longer it runs, lowering the level in one bubbler, creating even a greater imbalance stopping all flow to the other bubbler. You might have to split the exit into two complete separate systems, feeding their respective bubblers to solve the problem.

[BioFarmer93]

Thanks' Gus, very interesting.
About the problem, I would try to blow throw hose to see if the problem in hoses, if not I would look for electrical.

Yes, after visualizing the function and routing (and calming down some) I have narrowed the clog location down to two places- I have eliminated any electrical causes through testing after I shot the video...

[BioFarmer93]

Gus, can you time how long it lasts with the meter hooked up to it or how low it goes before you get tired of waiting. LOL Also short it out and see how much it comes back to. I would like to compare to what results I found.

Carter,
Not a problem, but I should probably do it after I get the KOH in it, right now I'm doing an active passivation with citric acid.. Remind me, OK? You know how I get...:confused::o:rolleyes:

[BioFarmer93]

Bio;
Please don't get ****ed at me . You have a beautiful setup, massive as h**l. But nice !! One thing, the candescent dryer... You ever work with air conditioning before ? That stuff is going to soak up all it can as long as it can. It seeks out moisture ! Which means it will take it out of your bubbler by microscopic drop after drop. Just saying.......

I don't think you have a mass other than the unit, try to to just use or ground one cell at a time see what you get ! I'm thinking to much metal too little power ???????? :confused:
The voltage without power .......... My first cell did that every time, the hotter it was the more voltage it would put out on its own. I'd drive on it maybe 30 mins. then check it with and without power hooked up ; here's some of my results.
Ignition off, after used 30 mins. wiring intact(relay cut off), 2.47 volts hot, 10 min later 1.61 volts, 30 mins later .09 volts.
Run again 30 mins, ignition off, wiring disconnected from unit; 5.73 volts hot, 10 mins. later 2.79 volts, 30 mins. later 1.01 volts.
I think that with the wiring disconnected that the amp meter wasn't pulling voltage, hence the higher voltage ! ? But i did the same test the same way so the only change was the wiring.

Man, I don't just get randomly mad at people, OK? Especially when they provide me with information that I hadn't considered..:D
One thing I noticed was that even though there was no production at first when I had the entire 7 group beast hooked up, after I ran 5 groups a few times, first
(+) & closest 5 groups, then (-) & closest 5 groups, and alternated this about half a dozen times to get it warmed up, THEN it would produce some when I hooked up the whole thing... Not a lot, but it worked. But yeah, too much metal for a wimpy 8-10% citric acid electrolyte to carry enough current to do much.

[BioFarmer93]

I can get my 2 LED lights that are behind my bubblers to run for about 4 minutes before they go out. I also noticed that the charge will also begin to build after they are unhooked. Some of the UNI's I have built have also made voltage when most all of the elite was drained out of the reactor. Crazy stuff!

"D"

Oohh-Oohh!! I knew I was forgetting something! I have two green 12v LED's I need to drill holes in the bottom of the bubblers for and seal in! Now that I have clear bubblers it should be extemely cheesy! Er, ahh, I mean COOL!!;):D
I AM gonna do that-

[BioFarmer93]

I'm no expert but first thing that comes to mind is somewhere during assembly POS + and NEG - are backward or out of order. From the looks of your vids you went into great detail keeping things clean during assembly so I would start with wiring .... do to plate configuration ( nice work) ... :)

Sodbuster, Thanks hoss but the electrical arrangement is probably the ONLY thing that my confidence is high in.. I did some more testing after the vid last night and it all checks out aces in that respect.. The more I think on it, the more I believe it's a piece of HDPE drill waste that I missed on the pre-assembly inspection...

[BioFarmer93]

Gus, take the tube off the active bubbler and plug it with your thumb long enough to get the other bubbler functioning. If that doesn't work then there is something plugged. If it does then there is some imbalance and the gas is going to the week side.

My thoughts exactly, Carter... So I did that and it just built up pressure in the side that was working.. Houston, we have a blockage...:eek:;)

[Madsceintist]

Bio;
Please don't get ****ed at me . You have a beautiful setup, massive as h**l. But nice !! One thing, the candescent dryer... You ever work with air conditioning before ? That stuff is going to soak up all it can as long as it can. It seeks out moisture ! Which means it will take it out of your bubbler by microscopic drop after drop. Just saying.......






What i was meaning about this is that running or not this dryer will absorb moisture ..... eventually becoming full and releasing some moisture past it.

[myoldyourgold]

What i was meaning about this is that running or not this dryer will absorb moisture ..... eventually becoming full and releasing some moisture past it.

Madscientist, the beads that Bio is using change color when moisture laden so he will know when to change them.

[Madsceintist]

I see :eek:.......... Just shooting at a helping hand.

[Darrell]

Oohh-Oohh!! I knew I was forgetting something! I have two green 12v LED's I need to drill holes in the bottom of the bubblers for and seal in! Now that I have clear bubblers it should be extemely cheesy! Er, ahh, I mean COOL!!;):D
I AM gonna do that-

As cheesy as it sounds you might as well show off all that hard work. ;-)
"D"

[BioFarmer93]

As cheesy as it sounds you might as well show off all that hard work. ;-)
"D"

No slam intended man, The coolness quotient IS high, it's just that I drive a beat up, noisy, rattely, badly in need of a paint job, 1989 F350 crew cab dually... Showing off something like the Biobeast in the bed of it even without lights engages the cheese drive, having an eerie green glow in the bubblers at night says "look at me! look at me!":D Don't get me wrong, I'm going to do it anyway, due to my extensive experience at being the target of derisive commentary and raised eyebrows, it's just that it would look SO much nicer in a better looking truck! LOL! In my P.O.S., it'll be the same as putting a large wheel of Swiss on a rotating mount on top of the cab..:eek::D

[Sodbuster]

OMG.... lmao =)===> In my P.O.S., it'll be the same as putting a large wheel of Swiss on a rotating mount on top of the cab

May I make a suggestion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vwgOMgyk0E

[BioFarmer93]

OMG.... lmao =)===> In my P.O.S., it'll be the same as putting a large wheel of Swiss on a rotating mount on top of the cab

May I make a suggestion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vwgOMgyk0E

Hey Look!! It's the "General Brie!!":eek::rolleyes::D

[Darrell]

One trip to West Coast Customs and you are there dude:D

[BioFarmer93]

One trip to West Coast Customs and you are there dude:D

LOL! Yeah, but I would have to re-fi the house to be able to be "The Dude".. Oh well, it's bondo and a rattle can for me until I hit lotto.

[Madsceintist]

Bio; I couldn't get this to load in the PM. So here it is.

[iger13]

Carter,
I'm doing an active passivation with citric acid

Gus, why you doing passivation when unit is assembled and not to plates?
Hope you enjoying driving with new Beast and will share info about the unit soon

[BioFarmer93]

Gus, why you doing passivation when unit is assembled and not to plates?
Hope you enjoying driving with new Beast and will share info about the unit soon

Igor,
I realized that I could control the environment inside the reactor more easily than outside, especially when the time comes to dry the plates with pure oxygen and let them sit for 24hrs in a pure oxygen atmosphere.

It is still in the shop- I have a lot of projects going on and several of them must take higher priority than the beast.. I'm trying to get my house and my mother's house ready to sell, also preparing new house drawings for approval by the building dept. in the county where we have property... My life is crazy:eek:
Working on the Beast is therapy for me, but I promise that there will be much info shared when the installation is finished!

[dixiepc]

Gus,

What's happening with the Beast?

[BioFarmer93]

Gus,

What's happening with the Beast?

It's taking a short nap while its owner educates his self on making a GM 150A alternator work with a Ford wiring harness- or if that's even possible. Learning about remote sense wire location advantages, the fact that this is a highly modified GM frame alternator that does NOT frame ground- actually has a separate negative terminal. Trying to determine if it will work with the ancient style Ford remote voltage regulator. I think it will, but I also think that I'm going to have to go up on wire size between alt & shunt, and shunt & pos terminal...

[Madsceintist]

Been busy and not able to type much, but if that alternator has an internal regulator then you can NOT make it work with an external regulator on an older Ford !!!! You can bypass the Ford regulator and that will work just fine. Google a Ford regulator diagram to see the wires not used for the conversion. Do you have a picture of the rear of that alternator?

[BioFarmer93]

Mad-
It's a Zena welding conversion continuous duty rated non-internaly regulated alt that uses a standard -12 GM case. The case is where any similarity to a GM alt ends. Zena drills an extra hole in the back for a neg. terminal because these things are mounted along with rather than in lieu of the vehicles regular alternator. I've been trying to figure out how the sense input works in a normal system. If it causes the regulator to increase the field strength based on lack of or level of voltage measured at the sensing site then it seems like I should be able to use a potentiometer in that line to decrease its value so as to raise the alts output. Am I seeing this correctly? I figure you'd probably be the man to ask about this aspect of the installation. From THE STANDPOINT OF ACTUAL FIT ON THE BRACKET (woops) it doesn't look like it will be a problem, and just a matter of swapping the serp belt pulley for the double V on the Ford alt. I may have to space the alt or the pulley or both a lttle to get proper alignment but don't anticipate too much trouble there. I'll try to remember to snap a pic of the alt when I get home this evening. Any thoughts on the matter you have, I would be happy to hear... Thanks.

[myoldyourgold]

Gus, I do not know if yours is like this but this site has everything I ever needed. You need to own the bank though to afford some of the high amp alternators.

http://high-amp.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_1&products_id=173

[Madsceintist]

Well I'm thinking that if this alt. has a separate ground than the the case ground, you would still run it to the neg. post or frame. Unless you are trying to isolate a separate system totally? If so you will not be able to use the regulator for the truck if it's running the truck, you'd need a second regulator for the isolated system! You could possibly use a blocking diode between the stator wire on the GM alt. to prevent back charge or drain, but I'm not sure that will convert. You may be stuck to two systems. I'll work on this in my head for a few.

Can you give me a general idea of your intentions so I can put the system together in my head? Are you running a separate system or the whole truck also off this alt.?

[BioFarmer93]

Mad,
I only mentioned the the neg terminal to point out how different it is, it's going to be grounded to the engine & frame in a manner probably superior to the factory's method. -But to my question about the remote voltage sensing wire with a potentiometer- will this work OK, or do think I should just use several feet of say, 16ga. zip tied in a nice neat coil to get a little voltage drop before it goes to the hot terminal on my solenoid? In my studying on this whole fascinating subject of charging system operation, I have read that the GM one wire alts are under performing because the sense wire gets its input straight off of the alternator's pos terminal, not allowing for enough voltage drop to cause the regulator to increase the field strength and put a decent charge out. Anyway, here is what it looks like...

[iger13]

Gus, what you use for arrestor? I got some from the states, but they have too match flow restriction, I don't think it's good idea to use them.
Beast makes a lot of gas, what you do? Thank you.

[myoldyourgold]

Here is one to check out. If you read the youtube comments you will see that even multiples of his smaller flashback arrestor was not restricting things that much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bhc1sptJoVM

[BioFarmer93]

Gus, what you use for arrestor? I got some from the states, but they have too match flow restriction, I don't think it's good idea to use them.
Beast makes a lot of gas, what you do? Thank you.

Igor,
You probably have noticed that I never speak of arrestors.. The reason is because I do not use them. I do not say they are a bad idea, I just don't see a diesel as needing them. Also, like you, I believe they cause too much back pressure (flow restriction) and would make any tiny leak in the plumbing into something that really loses a lot of gas. To everyone else reading this, USE THEM! (Do as I say, not as I do.;):rolleyes:)

[Madsceintist]

I have still to get back to mygold with some exact numbers on this subject. However with vacuum and supply with arrestors, the one I use has been great and once there's a vacuum on it it performs without restriction. It does have a restriction if there's no vacuum or pressure. Granted it takes some considerable pressure without the vacuum. BUT it still works very well.

[Madsceintist]

Bio;

This alt. seems to be nothing out of the ordinary other then the ground, which isn't abnormal. Just ground it close to or on what your running with it ! It's a high amp welding alt for continuous duty high amp pull. You could run an inverter off that without trouble all day long. THAT opens up a ton off options if you want to go to ac output.

[BioFarmer93]

Bio;

This alt. seems to be nothing out of the ordinary other then the ground, which isn't abnormal. Just ground it close to or on what your running with it ! It's a high amp welding alt for continuous duty high amp pull. You could run an inverter off that without trouble all day long. THAT opens up a ton off options if you want to go to ac output.

Thanks Mad-
I had pretty much come to that conclusion, but wanted to bounce the idea off of someone with a hands-on knowledge of the situation. I have a 24V-80A version of this alternator that gets used with two group 31's & a 24V inverter for portable power. Trying to locate a used but good condition Honda 6.5hp horizontal shaft engine for the set up now. Thanks- Gus

[iger13]

the one I use has been great

So, what you use? More info,plz.

[Madsceintist]

So, what you use? More info,plz.



http://www.hhoforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2040&d=1328375276

From a welding supply shop. Its a oxy/acte. flashback arrestor.

[BioFarmer93]

Well,
There is some weirdness going on with the 'beast.. Plumbing and electrical- from the plumbing end of things, I think I'm just going to trash the dual reservoir idea and route everything into one as the balance of electrolyte in one reservoir or the other seems to unduly affect the flow into the bubblers. Everything was taken apart and checked- no trash was ever located. I was relieved when that was the case because I had exercised OCD-like meticulousness with the cleanliness of the build and would have really started to doubt my worthiness as a builder had it been otherwise.
The electrical weirdness was discovered by accident when I was skipping the last group during a power up. I’d power the first six groups only starting from the left, then I would switch jumper cable locations and only power six groups starting from the right. I would use my multimeter to measure voltages across different groups and sets of groups looking for differences in voltage. The voltage coming off of my batteries from my running engine was clamped at 12.7V exactly as it should be, measured at the gator jaws of the unconnected cables. Each group pulled between 2.1V – 2.3V, and running only 6 out of seven groups showed 12.7V on the meter. The 7th group was still connected, but I was skipping it by supplying power starting at the 6th group. When I got a wild hare and measured all the way across at the main electrical connections, I got a surprise. I was expecting to see 12.7 again, but no, I got 13.4V! I immediately measured at the jaws again thinking that my alternators output had suddenly gone up- nope… I pulled the jumper cables off and measured them no-load – 12.7V. Walked out to the truck and measured at the batts- 12.7V. Came back in and hooked back up, 13.4V from end to end, one group beyond where all rationality is telling me the circuit ends.. Swapped ends for the orphan group- same deal, 13.4 and 12.7 IN the circuit.. swapped polarities, same thing. Swapped orphans with swapped polarities, same thing.

Anyone have any theories on this? Come on Nick, I know you secretly read here.. Larry? You’ve been too quiet too long.. Shane? Carter? Lee? Lurkers?

[myoldyourgold]

OH shoot!! Gus if you had told me this day before yesterday I might have been able to help or confuse the issue more. I tore down the three running reactors on my work bench yesterday for a major data collection where one has been running since 2008 almost continuously with just small down times for electrolyte changes. It will be a week or so before I will have one back together and will test to see if I see the same thing and or try and figure it out either way.

With the reservoir problem it is similar to the splitter reservoir problem and the only way to solve it other than going to one is to put a balancing hose between them at the bottom equalizing pressure. This of course is the same as one reservoir as far as any possible current leakage but you would get the benefit of the extra volume of electrolyte. The reason for the differences is current density on some electrodes is more than others.
This can be caused by slight differences in surface materials on the electrodes, distance/compression of gaskets, and how even the
conditioning process effected the surface.

I will give this some more though and see if I can get others to give us some feedback.

[iger13]

Plumbing and electrical- from the plumbing end of things, I think I'm just going to trash the dual reservoir idea and route everything into one as the balance of electrolyte in one reservoir or the other seems to unduly affect the flow into the bubblers.

I have same problem on this one.
Maybe will try myold advise. About the reason for voltage difference, I don't know (yet)but the same weired thing happens when you measure 3 groups.

[myoldyourgold]

Maybe will try myold advise. About the reason for voltage difference, I don't know (yet)but the same wired thing happens when you measure 3 groups.

What I mentioned has nothing to do with the voltage being different when measuring with different groups connected. It has to do with slight variations that cause more or less gas to be created from on sell to the next and thus creates a imbalance and of course the gas takes the path of least resistance. I still have to investigate the other phenomenon when groups are left off etc. Is there any negative readings on your meters when checking? In other words are the polarities as you think they should be?

Oh ya, great looking build. Nicely done!!

[19TERCEL96]

Well,
The electrical weirdness was discovered by accident when I was skipping the last group during a power up. I’d power the first six groups only starting from the left, then I would switch jumper cable locations and only power six groups starting from the right. I would use my multimeter to measure voltages across different groups and sets of groups looking for differences in voltage. The voltage coming off of my batteries from my running engine was clamped at 12.7V exactly as it should be, measured at the gator jaws of the unconnected cables. Each group pulled between 2.1V – 2.3V, and running only 6 out of seven groups showed 12.7V on the meter. The 7th group was still connected, but I was skipping it by supplying power starting at the 6th group. When I got a wild hare and measured all the way across at the main electrical connections, I got a surprise. I was expecting to see 12.7 again, but no, I got 13.4V! I immediately measured at the jaws again thinking that my alternators output had suddenly gone up- nope… I pulled the jumper cables off and measured them no-load – 12.7V. Walked out to the truck and measured at the batts- 12.7V. Came back in and hooked back up, 13.4V from end to end, one group beyond where all rationality is telling me the circuit ends.. Swapped ends for the orphan group- same deal, 13.4 and 12.7 IN the circuit.. swapped polarities, same thing. Swapped orphans with swapped polarities, same thing.

Anyone have any theories on this? Come on Nick, I know you secretly read here.. Larry? You’ve been too quiet too long.. Shane? Carter? Lee? Lurkers?

What happens to your voltage and current readings when you connect the seventh stack?

[iger13]

What I mentioned has nothing to do with the voltage

I mean advice about the balance of electrolyte in two reservoirs. [/QUOTE]Is there any negative readings on your meters when checking? In other words are the polarities as you think they should be?[/QUOTE]
Yes,the reading,I think,is negative.

[myoldyourgold]

Igor, How many plates do you have in each group?

While the reactor is running do these voltage checks.

Starting with plate 1 in group 1 and the last plate in group 1, what voltage do you read? Now move the probe from plate one to the first plate in group 2 what voltage do you read?

First plate in group 1 and the last plate in group 6 what voltage do you read?

First plate in group 1 and the last plate in group 3 what voltage do you read?

I will start with this and after getting this much information maybe be able to help.

[myoldyourgold]

Well,
There is some weirdness going on with the 'beast.. Plumbing and electrical- from the plumbing end of things, I think I'm just going to trash the dual reservoir idea and route everything into one as the balance of electrolyte in one reservoir or the other seems to unduly affect the flow into the bubblers. Everything was taken apart and checked- no trash was ever located. I was relieved when that was the case because I had exercised OCD-like meticulousness with the cleanliness of the build and would have really started to doubt my worthiness as a builder had it been otherwise.
The electrical weirdness was discovered by accident when I was skipping the last group during a power up. I’d power the first six groups only starting from the left, then I would switch jumper cable locations and only power six groups starting from the right. I would use my multimeter to measure voltages across different groups and sets of groups looking for differences in voltage. The voltage coming off of my batteries from my running engine was clamped at 12.7V exactly as it should be, measured at the gator jaws of the unconnected cables. Each group pulled between 2.1V – 2.3V, and running only 6 out of seven groups showed 12.7V on the meter. The 7th group was still connected, but I was skipping it by supplying power starting at the 6th group. When I got a wild hare and measured all the way across at the main electrical connections, I got a surprise. I was expecting to see 12.7 again, but no, I got 13.4V! I immediately measured at the jaws again thinking that my alternators output had suddenly gone up- nope… I pulled the jumper cables off and measured them no-load – 12.7V. Walked out to the truck and measured at the batts- 12.7V. Came back in and hooked back up, 13.4V from end to end, one group beyond where all rationality is telling me the circuit ends.. Swapped ends for the orphan group- same deal, 13.4 and 12.7 IN the circuit.. swapped polarities, same thing. Swapped orphans with swapped polarities, same thing.

Anyone have any theories on this? Come on Nick, I know you secretly read here.. Larry? You’ve been too quiet too long.. Shane? Carter? Lee? Lurkers?

Gus, do one test for me. When all groups are hooked up measure the voltage from the first plate of group 7 to the last plate in group 7. Thanks

[iger13]

Igor, How many plates do you have in each group?

While the reactor is running do these voltage checks.

Starting with plate 1 in group 1 and the last plate in group 1, what voltage do you read? Now move the probe from plate one to the first plate in group 2 what voltage do you read?

First plate in group 1 and the last plate in group 6 what voltage do you read?

First plate in group 1 and the last plate in group 3 what voltage do you read?

I will start with this and after getting this much information maybe be able to help.

Here is the numbers for 3 group unit,5 plates in group:
1 group-1.9V
2 groups-2.4V
3 groups-6V.
So the mystery is, if I understand Gus correctly, where in his unit of 7 groups extra voltage came from, and in my unit with 3 groups where voltage disappear.
When I turn unit off I get :
1 group 1.25V
2 groups 2.4V
3 groups 3.3V

[myoldyourgold]

Igor Sir, I sent you a PM.

[BioFarmer93]

What happens to your voltage and current readings when you connect the seventh stack?

Still 12.7V, only reads 13.4 when I connect @ 1st and 6th but read at 1st & 7th.:confused::(

[myoldyourgold]

Still 12.7V, only reads 13.4 when I connect @ 1st and 6th but read at 1st & 7th.

Gus, do you mean measuring the 1st plate of the 1st group and the last plate of the 6th group it measures 13.4V. When you measure 1st plate of group 1 and the last plate of group 7 it is 12.7V. Do I have it right or is it the opposite way?

[BioFarmer93]

Carter I haven't tried to measure values at individual plates because all plates of a like polarity within a group are hard connected. Sorry..:o

[myoldyourgold]

Gus, just put the probes on the plates between the gasket not on the connection.

[Sodbuster]

Bump for the BEAST :)

How`s it going !!

[Darrell]

Hows your project going Gus?

[BioFarmer93]

Hows your project going Gus?

It's finished, and now I need to pull one reservoir off and do a little re-plumbing to eleminate that bothersome tendency it has to only feed gas to one side. I still have to swap out the alternator and put the hot one in along with an overdue upgrade of the charging system wiring... Call it a full weekends work. Hard to get to though with all the other "more important" things to do. Currently preparing the yard for Zoysia sod and an in ground sprinkler system to comply with HOA rules and recent nasty-gram.:mad:

[Darrell]

What size alternator are you going to use? I thinking of up grading mine as well.

[BioFarmer93]

What size alternator are you going to use? I thinking of up grading mine as well.

Remember when I had the system installed the first time? I was running dual alternators, the stock Ford 85A for the truck and the 150A Zena dedicated for the system only. Well since then I've upgraded the truck alt to a 100A, but I'm going to swap it out for the Zena and just run that for the truck and the system instead of two alt's. It's a much heavier duty unit and is actually under rated by 15-20 amps. Based on what I've learned about efficiency in the last few years, and how much gas (supposedly) will do the trick, I'm going to take the chance that a single 150A alt will supply all my needs. We'll see...:cool:

[koya1893]

Gus,
most of those high end, high output alt are producing 40-50A during idle, which is plenty to power up a two stack unit at 2LPM. The bus is reacting well with a two stack system. runs smooth and get 15mpg on D2, I am going to run it close to empty so I can start with WMO run it on that at 20% with Karosene vice RUG.

[BioFarmer93]

Gus,
most of those high end, high output alt are producing 40-50A during idle, which is plenty to power up a two stack unit at 2LPM. The bus is reacting well with a two stack system. runs smooth and get 15mpg on D2, I am going to run it close to empty so I can start with WMO run it on that at 20% with Karosene vice RUG.

Hey Chief,
Just a word to the wise on the kerosene, it burns a little hotter than #2 diesel.. Just now @ 8pm I see that you are in the low-mid 40's, that's good weather for a 50/50 mix and will be OK up to about 60°F. From 60°F to 70° I personally would not go hotter than 35% kerosene. Above 70°F, 25% kerosene is enough to thin most automobile oils (5w-30's - 15w-40's). If you are ever fortunate enough to develop a good relationship with a mom & pop transmission shop and can get WATF, then 10% kerosene added to that is a perfect fuel.

[Madsceintist]

Hey Chief,
Just a word to the wise on the kerosene, it burns a little hotter than #2 diesel.. Just now @ 8pm I see that you are in the low-mid 40's, that's good weather for a 50/50 mix and will be OK up to about 60°F. From 60°F to 70° I personally would not go hotter than 35% kerosene. Above 70°F, 25% kerosene is enough to thin most automobile oils (5w-30's - 15w-40's). If you are ever fortunate enough to develop a good relationship with a mom & pop transmission shop and can get WATF, then 10% kerosene added to that is a perfect fuel.


I've got 125 gallons of waste oil. Any takers near me? Bring your own pick-up tank!

[BioFarmer93]

I've got 125 gallons of waste oil. Any takers near me? Bring your own pick-up tank!

Your Location says you live in the USA... HEY Wait! I LIVE in the USA- I'll be right over!!;):D

[Madsceintist]

Just outside Atlanta, :rolleyes: to the west.

[dixiepc]

Gus,

What's up with the BioBeast?

[BioFarmer93]

It's finished and mounted on its board, just too many other projects going on. If it doesn't rain all weekend I'm gonna try to get it mounted in the truck at least- even if I don't get it all hooked up up.

[danser75]

hey gus... its been a crazy summer for me... how goes the beast?

[BioFarmer93]

hey gus... its been a crazy summer for me... how goes the beast?

I'm here, just been doing everything in the world except messin' with HHO... Lots of drama going on in the extended family circle and trying to prepare for martial law come January... The beast is fine, just sitting there in the shop waiting for me to get all of the crap out of the back of my truck so it can be mounted.
Oh hey- I had an idea for you guys to kick around.. I was thinking that the easiest way to vary output of an alternator (on a truck anyway) would be to make a small diameter Otherpower.com style axial flux PMA with twin magnet rotors that would mount directly onto the drive shaft. Before anyone points out the obvious, YES- I know it would have to be balanced as a unit WITH the shaft. I just had some drive shaft work done the other day at a local drive line service place and got to talking with the foreman about HHO and this idea, even did a sketch of what I was talking about for him. He said that he didn't see why there would be any problem getting it to balance if I could get the magnets spaced right on the rotors... I told him that I felt pretty comfortable about doing that, even if it took me a couple of days. It would have to have a split stator that mounted on a bracket attached to the underside of the floor, and the bracket would have to be "tweakable" for rotor clearance and centering..