Newb here with his first HHO generator

[Tennpenn83]

Hi all, I have been turned on to the scene recently and would like to thank everyone for the information that is posted up in many great threads already on the forum.

I have built an HHO generator, and I know it is very basic, but I was just wanting to see if I could do it. It is nothing special, just a 2 gallon painter's bucket with a couple plates, wires and 1 gallon of distilled water + 6 tsp of NaOH. I only experimented with the mother of all flashlight batteries, then my car's battery to see the difference. (and wow... what a difference..)

Obviously, I am not done here. I just wanted to see if it could work, and it does. I have already noticed that the wires eventually got super hot while holding the leads on the car battery, so those will have to be upgraded (they are 12g wires...) and I have been looking in to building a dry cell.

I am a college student with a major in physics, and see a lot of potential with this system, and it's implemented use in cars. However, I am curious to know if the increased mileage that people are seeing has more to do with the hydrogen input, or from scaling back the fuel injectors via MAP/MAF so the car runs leaner. Maybe a combination of both? A little more help to understand this better would be greatly appreciated.

I also tune my own car via HP Tuners. This is not an on-the-fly tuning device like the Apexi AFC, this is a log, stop, change tune, load tune, start car, drive/log, repeat process. How are people using this software (if any) to tune their cars? I am not a newb to tuning, but I have seen many videos of HHO in cars, and most have a dial/knob to control MAF/MAP or have a EFIE/PWM. Not a tuning program like HP Tuners.

Thanks for the help.

[Tennpenn83]

Second post to show youtube videos of my project

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POnX7ET4ONg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVbKcfzJmHE&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVbKcfzJmHE&feature=related

[myoldyourgold]

I would think HP Tuners is a steep above Apexi in that you can access a lot more and fine tune the ECU for HHO. I dont know of anyone else using HP Tuners yet but I have been eyeballing it for a few months now. I just dont know how much of a learning curve there is to it... or I would have already ordered it. It looks like it would be a VERY useful tool.


Shane you are right about it being a step up but it is basically a GM product as far as support goes. Because of the volume of stuff it does it is very hard to make everything work across the board. The Apexi is much simpler to use with a very fast learning curve, plus there are lots of used ones available to play with with out robbing a bank. I could be wrong about HP tuners but when I looked into it I found the majority of the users were GM. Maybe it will work well in other vehicles that are not supported I just do not know???

[Tennpenn83]

Shane you are right about it being a step up but it is basically a GM product as far as support goes. Because of the volume of stuff it does it is very hard to make everything work across the board. The Apexi is much simpler to use with a very fast learning curve, plus there are lots of used ones available to play with with out robbing a bank. I could be wrong about HP tuners but when I looked into it I found the majority of the users were GM. Maybe it will work well in other vehicles that are not supported I just do not know???

You are correct, HPT is mostly a GM thing, but there are a few other cars that it supports, i.e. Ford and they are working on Dodge.

A list to the supported vehicles can be found here :

HP Tuners Supported Vehicles List (http://www.hptuners.com/products/vcmsuite_vehicles.php)

While there is much, much more to change in the tune with HPT, it is also much harder to learn, since there are so many more parameters that you can change. However, this is kind of bittersweet, since you can customize the tune more to your liking.

The question I have is if it is more desirable to have a tuner like the Apexi that you can adjust on the fly, as you are driving down the road, or the HPT software that can only change the tune after you are parked and the engine is off. There is a second half - a scanner that allows you to log and change a few things as you are driving. Adjust fan %, A/C clutch, fans, idle rpm... etc.

I have only found one place to adjust the fuel injectors as you are driving, it seems to be a built-in PWM.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b224/azn_ladie82/HPTscreenshot.png

[myoldyourgold]

The question I have is if it is more desirable to have a tuner like the Apexi that you can adjust on the fly, as you are driving down the road, or the HPT software that can only change the tune after you are parked and the engine is off. There is a second half - a scanner that allows you to log and change a few things as you are driving. Adjust fan %, A/C clutch, fans, idle rpm... etc.

I see no advantage of being able to adjust on the fly unless you call having an accident and advantage. LOL It is just the time it takes to learn and use one over the other that keeps me with Apexi. It all should be done on a set of rollers anyway. I use the local smog guys. He is starving so is happy to let me use his for next to nothing. :)

[Tennpenn83]

I guess the reason I'm debating on the two is because the GM that I drive is also a supercharged 2.0L 4 cylinder that is approaching 400whp, so I would be careful considering that being supplemented with HHO under anything but cruise/idle. If I were to go WOT with it, would it be any kind of danger pressurizing the HHO under boost?

The wife's minivan, on the other hand... that gets the Apexi.

[myoldyourgold]

I guess the reason I'm debating on the two is because the GM that I drive is also a supercharged 2.0L 4 cylinder that is approaching 400whp, so I would be careful considering that being supplemented with HHO under anything but cruise/idle. If I were to go WOT with it, would it be any kind of danger pressurizing the HHO under boost?

You should not have any problem with HHO being under pressure because it will be so diluted by the time it gets compressed that it might be the least dangerous of the mixture. I guess if you were injecting 40 lpm or more that might be a problem. LOL For your 400whp I suggest you have a EGT installed if it does not have one already. No mater what you use to tune with it will be critical to know in real time what the exhaust temp gases are under your circumstances to prevent major damage. Be lean and mean I like it.:)

[Tennpenn83]

I like where you're going with this. I don't yet have an EGT, but that will likely be installed this summer. The good thing is I can add it to the scanner for data logging under any and all conditions. The charts display will show the EGT's vs rpm/speed/throttle % and many other parameters.

HPT truly is a useful program.

[Tennpenn83]

It's actually the redheaded cousin to the Cobalt, it's the Saturn ION Redline. Same exact car, just different takes on it. There is actually a lot of room under the hood, as the battery's factory location is in the trunk. The ION's differ by having the washer fluid on the driver's side, rather than the Cobalt's passenger side. Because of this, there is a great deal of space on the passenger side of the car, specifically under the headlight, hidden from view.

Now, elsewhere under the hood? Not so much room...