Understandiny Hydroxy

[absoluteanc]

Hi I am new to the forum and want to share my design for constructive criticism. The dry cell generator is 7 cell, 15 plate configuration per unit (-nnnnnn+nnnnnn-). This is a parallel 7 cell generator with two generators hooked up in parallel. The plate sizes are 4" x 3 1/2" inside the gasket. I am using sodium hydroxide for the electrolyte approximately 2 tbls per gallon. Currently I am running 10 gauge wire with 30 amp relay, and inside switched wired to the ignition.

Testing has confirmed

16 Amps = 700 ml per min (for both generators working together)

10 Amps = 500 ml per min " "

Installed on a 95 dodge Ram 5.2L for 2200 miles (gain) = 12 mpg 15 mpg
Test were run on 12 hour trip and two weeks driving

I was trying to achieve 2 liters per min at 15 Amps. using .5 amps per sq in @ 2 volts per cell. I don't understand the math using neutral plates and calculating sq in for production. Each cell should have produce 1.3 liters when I used the sandwiched area for the contact area in the equation.
The cell runs nice and cool with no heat problems and no run away amps. In fact I am having the opposite problem, I seem to drop amps while driving.

I am not getting circulation of the water but the cells remain full. The original design was to use a pump, so I put a tube in the bottom input and drilled a 1/16" hole in the tube in every cell to allow for equal placement of the water. I don't use the pump and was wondering if I should remove the tube and just let the water flow. But then all of my bottom holes will be lined up and might allow the electricity to jump around. Not sure if that would even make a difference.

This is my first dry cell and is an ongoing experiment, either way I like the way the engine responds when injecting hydrogen. My theory is that less is more so I am using 1/4 liter gas per liter of engine and no more than 20 amps max. Right now I have made no adjustments to the stock engine I did make sure it was tuned up before installing, 3/4 liters per minute has made a difference.

Do these results seem normal or am I having a problem with production due to lack of circulation? Or should I just be happy with these results.

[BioFarmer93]

Welcome to the forum-
You seem to have done pretty well (25% gain) for such a low electrolyte concentration... You can bring your heat, efficiency and production up by increasing the conductivity of your electrolyte by adding sodium hydroxide to bring the percentage up to what has come to be accepted as the norm- 20% by weight.

[absoluteanc]

Thanks for the advice let me make sure I am understanding you correctly.

1 ml of water = 1 gram

1000 ml water = 200 grams of electrolyte?

So for 1 gallon (3780 ml) I would need to add 756 grams (1.6 pounds) of sodium hydroxide?

I am using 1/16" spacing between the plates. I am currently running approximately 4 tablespoons per gallon. ( guessing 1.5 % solution)

Also there is no pwm does that make a difference, is the 20% the maximum solution?

[myoldyourgold]

I was trying to achieve 2 liters per min at 15 Amps. using .5 amps per sq in @ 2 volts per cell. I don't understand the math using neutral plates and calculating sq in for production. Each cell should have produce 1.3 liters when I used the sandwiched area for the contact area in the equation.
The cell runs nice and cool with no heat problems and no run away amps. In fact I am having the opposite problem, I seem to drop amps while driving.

I am not getting circulation of the water but the cells remain full. The original design was to use a pump, so I put a tube in the bottom input and drilled a 1/16" hole in the tube in every cell to allow for equal placement of the water. I don't use the pump and was wondering if I should remove the tube and just let the water flow. But then all of my bottom holes will be lined up and might allow the electricity to jump around. Not sure if that would even make a difference.

This is my first dry cell and is an ongoing experiment, either way I like the way the engine responds when injecting hydrogen. My theory is that less is more so I am using 1/4 liter gas per liter of engine and no more than 20 amps max. Right now I have made no adjustments to the stock engine I did make sure it was tuned up before installing, 3/4 liters per minute has made a difference.

Do these results seem normal or am I having a problem with production due to lack of circulation? Or should I just be happy with these results.

First to achieve 2 LPM at 15 amps will be near impossible, at 20 amps it is even difficult. You will do better to concentrate on getting the most out of what you make.

No circulation and running cool is a good thing as long as the level is staying high enough and the same in each cell. To examine this you will need to disassemble the cell and look at each plate keeping them in order so you will be able to tell where there is a problem if any. You can raise the temperature a little by increasing the electrolyte concentration to a max of 20% as Bio stated. Do this little at a time and use a Hydrometer to measure it. Here is a link to help you with the right percentage.

http://www.handymath.com/cgi-bin/naohtble3.cgi?submit=Entry

You will be limited to about 1.2 LPM if your get your reactor working very efficiently but more like 1 lpm at 14 amps. More than 15 amps you will be doing possible damage to the plates. To make more HHO with more amprage you will need larger plates or add another stack. Larger plates in my book do better compared to going to 3 stacks. Your gain if it remains consistent is good and you should be very happy. Keep working at it and you will get even more.

Things to consider is media blasting your plates if not done.
Using Weld-on 16 on the exit ports in your case. The input has a pipe so nothing there.
Using an EFFIE to go leaner if you add more HHO. Not much help at the amount you are making right now.

Keep us informed of your further developments. You have done a good job so far.

[Quebecker]

Hi,

Regularly, I read the term "media blasting". Would you kindly to give me details on what to do for our plates are "media blasted" ?

Thanks
Remi

[BioFarmer93]

Sand-blasting, is an outmoded term because very few places actually use sand any more. The modern term is media blasting... The media can be sand(rare) garnet, aluminum oxide, steel shot, black beauty (boiler slag) or any of a dozen other abrasives.

[absoluteanc]

I was curious as to what this weld-on 16 epoxy is used for? Does it seal the threads to prevent leaks on the output side?

[myoldyourgold]

I was curious as to what this weld-on 16 epoxy is used for? Does it seal the threads to prevent leaks on the output side?

Weld-0n 16 is basically a liquid acrylic and does not react to NaOH or KOH. It does not seal threads at least in my tests. Gorilla glue works very good on threads but very hard, if not impossible to remove them if you have to. If you are going to want to remove them use plumbers GOOP.

[BioFarmer93]

I was curious as to what this weld-on 16 epoxy is used for? Does it seal the threads to prevent leaks on the output side?

Weldon16 is used directly on the plates as an insulator painted in and around the electrolyte supply holes and the gas-out holes to help minimize current leakage in bipolar reactors. Do not attempt to use it for this purpose unless you have had your plates media blasted, as it will not stick to the metal and will flake off into your electrolyte. Three coats with drying in between has been recommended as sufficient to the task.

[myoldyourgold]

Thank you Bio for filling in the missing important info. I lost my train of thought because of some earth shaking results I witnessed that were going around in my small but active gray cells. LOL