Muriatic Acid for Electrolyte

[Griz64]

Hey guys I was wondering what you guys thought of using muriatic acid as an electrolyte solution? I honestly have no idea if it would work or what it would do, but I do use it to clean our pool in a distilled state of course. So what do you guys think?

[Stratous]

Some acids work. Lemmon juice works. Not sure what the by products could be though. Could have some hazardous by-products

[BoyntonStu]

I know a guy who is using Kool Aid.

What is his point?

KOH is best.

NaOH is almost as good.


There is too much work ahead more important than developing new chemistry.

My $0.02

BoyntonStu

[Dewayne]

I sure wouldn't use it. I use muriatic acid to etch my circuit boards.
God only knows what type of fumes you would get and your plates
will not last very long.

[HomeGrown]

Hey guys I was wondering what you guys thought of using muriatic acid as an electrolyte solution? I honestly have no idea if it would work or what it would do, but I do use it to clean our pool in a distilled state of course. So what do you guys think?

I think it's really scarry that you would even consider the use of such a harsh acid in your system, without having a clue as to what the potential dangers are. :eek:

[Griz64]

Well you guys have enlightened me. I was willing to try it until I read your responses and after thinking about it, I have to agree. Not a terribly smart thing to do even in a weak solution. Thank each one of you for your input. It is very much appreciated.:o

[jimbo40]

Not so scary. If someone has a good working test cell, you may only need a drop or 2, in a half gallon is not very scary at all.
I mean Jeffery Dalhmer played with the stuff full strength all day long.

[jimbo40]

How about lime?

[stickittoopec]

You would have to be careful what you put it in because some metals react with it and produce hydrogen. You would get a nice hydrogen boost but it would eat a hole in your container.

[HomeGrown]

How about lime?


Goes great with Corona! :D http://k53.pbase.com/v3/41/564141/1/45547060.Cheers.gif

[dennyk159]

If I'm not mistaken, Muriatic acid is HCl. You'd probably create a boatload of chlorine gas. Not good. Also, lime has calcium & magnesium in it. My guess there is you'd be gunking up your cell with unwanted solids.

[jimbo40]

If I'm not mistaken, Muriatic acid is HCl. You'd probably create a boatload of chlorine gas. Not good. Also, lime has calcium & magnesium in it. My guess there is you'd be gunking up your cell with unwanted solids.

Any more solids then sodiun hydroxide or KOH or baking soda?

[dennyk159]

I haven't tried KOH, but NaOH is much cleaner than Baking Soda... I'd say there may be no residue with NaOH. I can't say for sure because I had an iron tee at the outlet so I could add water/electrolyte as needed, & there was some rust looking sediment in the bottom the last time I cleaned it. I have since taken the iron tee out, but haven't checked for residue.

[countryboy18]

well the only thing about Hydrochloric acid is that it is listed on this thread http://hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=1281 and it is the 2 best electrolyte! the pool store sells it it is at 34% that is industrial strength. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrochloric_acid just another info place!

[scrode]

Goes great with Corona! :D http://k53.pbase.com/v3/41/564141/1/45547060.Cheers.gif

:D my sentiments exactly :p

[Q-Hack!]

One of the reasons I didn't use Epsom Salt MgSO4 is that it breaks down into Magnesium Oxide and Sulfuric acid MgO + H2SO4. I put Hydrochloric acid in the same realm as the sulfuric acid... too dangerous to test with.

[countryboy18]

well in light of all the warnings i tried HCl with normal tap water. i used a cap full off a 2 liter bottle. to one gallon of water. i increased the amp draw by 4 amps. the water became cloudy with bubbles was not able to get a lpm time. but there was a little white mist that was created idk what it was but i shut it down and am waiting to find out what is is producing. hopefully just HHO and nothing else. thanks if anybody knows anything about using HCL or muriatic acid please say something.

[countryboy18]

well i got 12 amps with good production. i guess. the mist that was comming of was part HHO and part chlorine gas. i found out what it was well by the dummest way i smelled it and it was chlorine gas. so is this bad that it is producing HHO and chlorine gas? i only had to use 2 table spoons with 1 gallon of tap water. i can stick my hand in it and it has no affect on my skin.

[countryboy18]

i got it just run the gas through a realy good bubbler one with the stone that makes alot of bubbles and the Cl gas will just go into the water. right?

[countryboy18]

and now another problem or maby not but there is only bubbles comming off the - plate and nothing off the + one but the + has to still be in the water for it to work. so eather i am only making CL or i am making H and CL and no O. so how do i find out what i am making? is there a chemist or a scientist that know what is happening to the water?

[Painless]

Hydrogen is produced at the positive plate then attracted to the negative before it.surfaces in bubbles from the electrolyte, vice versa the oxygen.

Looks like its hydrogen you're making, the oxygen must be joining with something else in your electrolyte.

[countryboy18]

i am using 2 tbsp of HCL with 1 gal of tap water. i can smell the CL comming out of the water when it runs. so i think i am making CL and H at the same time and no O. i will try to light a match when i start it and tell you if it is just CL or CL and H.

[countryboy18]

well the bubbles must just be H because it popes when i light them up. my water and HCL solution is turning a chlorine color.

[Smith03Jetta]

When you mix hydrochloric acid HCL with water you get chlorine and hydroxonium or oxonium cations. Those cations are made up of 3 hydrogen atoms and 1 oxygen. These cations are positively charged and will be attracted to the negative electrode (Normally the Hydrogen Electrode) only.

Electrolysis of these ions can possibly release a hydrogen atom and leave a water molecule remaining. The other possibility is that a hydrogen is released followed by a splitting of the H2O molecule. That would result in twice the volume of Hydrogen gas being released and an negatively charged oxygen ion being released into the water. That negatively charged oxygen ion would then be attracted to another positively charged Oxonium Cation. When combined that could make Hydrogen Dihydroxide Ion H3O2.

This new negatively charged ion is a 3 dimensional ion that uses proton exchange to stay together. This proton exchange produces a harmonic vibration. This also produces heat during the proton exchange.

What all this means to me is "The cell will be getting hot pretty fast". It will make a bunch of hydrogen though.

The bad thing is that it will produce a LARGE volume of Chlorine gas. It is toxic and can't be separated from the Hydrogen gas inside the electrolyzer. This chlorine gas will be pumped into your engine.

What you are basically doing is going the long way around to make Hydrogen Gas and Chlorine gas from Hydrochloric Acid. The atomic mass of the H20 is pretty much left alone.

It would be very easy for the raw HCL to get into your engine causing metal damage. Also the Chlorine gas could recombine with the Hydrogen gas to make Pure HCL inside your engine. HCL is also commonly known as Muriatic Acid.

It's sort of like Altoids Mints. It is a curiously strong acid.

One of the cardinal rules of HHO is to avoid anything containing Chlorine Atoms. For good reason!

Then again, I could be wrong, Who knows!

[redneckgearhead34]

well i got 12 amps with good production. i guess. the mist that was comming of was part HHO and part chlorine gas. i found out what it was well by the dummest way i smelled it and it was chlorine gas. so is this bad that it is producing HHO and chlorine gas? i only had to use 2 table spoons with 1 gallon of tap water. i can stick my hand in it and it has no affect on my skin.


We can tell that country boy is dedicated. Putting his hand on the line in the name of fuel efficiency

[countryboy18]

do what does using HCL and water as a electrolyte do. scientifically? my results tell me i am making H from the HCL and also HHO from the water. the CL is absorbed into the water and the end result is a low amount of Cl in the water. if you want you can even put it in your pool and save money and use less store bought CL. it might be more work to have to empty out the old water and CL . but if you are making more H then i think it is worth the more work. thanks for any help.

P.S. my hands are normal thankfully. No Pain No Gain!

[countryboy18]

is there any one who has a science background that know what is happening when you have H2O and HCL and pass eletricity throught it what and were does everything go? in normal terms i dont under stand the whole "H20 HCL> H3 O Cl" what ever it is. thanks. i am dieing here i want to put it in the car ASAP.

[countryboy18]

well i give up. to use or not to use. it works but i dont know what is the side affect is of using HCL. i just got my hand on some NaOH from lowes this stuff is good stuff. workes great. but i still would like to know the good and bad of using HCL. thanks for any help. :(

[jjb2888]

I know a guy who is using Kool Aid.

What is his point?

KOH is best.

NaOH is almost as good.


There is too much work ahead more important than developing new chemistry.

My $0.02

BoyntonStu

The kool aid theory is the main ingredient is sodium citrate, citric acid. I have tried sodium citrate and have had good results. Amp draw is comparable to the hydroxides, better than baking soda and it is non caustic. You can drink it, no dangerous fumes.

[jjb2888]

is there any one who has a science background that know what is happening when you have H2O and HCL and pass eletricity throught it what and were does everything go? in normal terms i dont under stand the whole "H20 HCL> H3 O Cl" what ever it is. thanks. i am dieing here i want to put it in the car ASAP.

muriatic acid, weak hydrochloric acid, is a good electrolyte as far as production. But it has chlorine in it so is dangerous because of chlorine gas. So I would not use it.

[Smith03Jetta]

Don't pour it in your pool, Dude, unless you want your family to be poisoned by the Hexavalent Chromium released by your stainless electrodes.

There's a saying we have down in Georgia, "What's a Redneck's Last words?"

"Hey, y'all watch this!"

[countryboy18]

well thanks for the laugh i like that saying. it was just an idea to pour it in my pool. my pool guy says that the cl gas bonds to H2O and makes liquid Cl so there is no Cl gas coming out of the cell even if there was the bubbler would collect it all. but nobody has explained why when i have HCl and H2O there is only production on the - terminal and nothing on the + terminal. but i am probably going to give it up an just use NaOH since everbody uses it and it works for a fact. my last say on HCL how come it is in that chart in that science of HHO or what ever the name of the pdf was???

[Smith03Jetta]

I mentioned a possibility for why you were not getting any Oxygen on the Positive electrode. Please read and comment:

When you mix hydrochloric acid HCL with water you get chlorine and hydroxonium or oxonium cations. Those cations are made up of 3 hydrogen atoms and 1 oxygen in one molecule. These cations are positively charged and will be attracted to the negative electrode (Normally the Hydrogen Electrode) only.

Electrolysis of these ions can possibly release a hydrogen atom and leave a water molecule remaining. The other possibility is that a hydrogen is released followed by a splitting of the H2O molecule. That would result in twice the volume of Hydrogen gas being released and an negatively charged oxygen ion being released into the water. That negatively charged oxygen ion would then be attracted to another positively charged Oxonium Cation. When combined that could make Hydrogen Dihydroxide Ion H3O2.

NO OXYGEN IONS ARE REACHING THE POSITIVE ELECTRODE TO REACT AND MAKE BUBBLES. They are being eaten up inside the catalytic mixture to make Dihydroxide.

This new negatively charged ion is a 3 dimensional ion that uses proton exchange to stay together. This proton exchange produces a harmonic vibration. This also produces heat during the proton exchange.

What all this means to me is "The cell will be getting hot pretty fast". It will make a bunch of hydrogen though.

The bad thing is that it will produce a LARGE volume of Chlorine gas. It is toxic and can't be separated from the Hydrogen gas inside the electrolyzer. This chlorine gas will be pumped into your engine. (Your pool guy say that the chlorine will stay in the water but I say it will vent out of the water as chlorine gas. That's why you smell it. It is in the air. Some stays in the water but some floats away too.)

What you are basically doing is going the long way around to make Hydrogen Gas and Chlorine gas from Hydrochloric Acid. The atomic mass of the H20 is pretty much left alone. That's why you are not producing oxygen on the positive electrode.

It would be very easy for the raw HCL to get into your engine causing metal damage. Also the Chlorine gas could recombine with the Hydrogen gas to make Pure HCL inside your engine. HCL is also commonly known as Muriatic Acid.

One of the cardinal rules of HHO is to avoid anything containing Chlorine Atoms. For good reason!

[countryboy18]

well i am not going to argue with your ideas. but why is HCL listed in the 1919 book on HHO? http://hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=1080&highlight=production it is better than anything else except silver nitrate. see page 131.