Results - Check Engine Light ?

[witmeraa]

Info:
- 2005 Dodge grand caravan
- homemade 6x6 21 plate dry cell -nnnn+nnnn-nnnn+nnnn-
- 2lpm, 11.2v, 28A = MMW 6.377
- NaOH 1Tbs to a gallon

I installed this after the air filter close the the throttle body and I am not seeing any difference after the mpg test. I was seeing a noticeable amount of HHO streaming from the end of the hose. I am certain it is not steam since heat is not an issue with this design. I thought I would have at least thrown a check engine light considering I have not done any mods on it. I have read that some people were getting some results with out them. I planned on the mods but wanted to see it work before spending more money on the mods.

This was only one 50 mile test. Maybe I should leave it installed for a longer period of time. I have a 98 dodge 5.9L. I was thinking of trying it in here since it is a later model. idk...

What are you all thoughts...? :rolleyes:

[lhazleton]

For a 5.9L engine you need 3LPM of gas. 2LPM won't cut it.
Also, where does the '11.2 volts' come from?:confused:

[witmeraa]

The volts that were mentioned were from the bench test since I have not taken the time to calculate the MMW while in the van. I did test the LPM in the van and at 35A I was running just over 2 lpm. I didn't check the volts in the van while running though.

What do you suggest about the van? Should I call it good then and just work on the truck? Is there just some vehicles that HHO will not work in?

THX...

[astrocady]

witmeraa,

Congratulations! It sounds like you've built yourself a nice system. But, there is always a but, there are a couple of suggestions I'd like to make.

First, you say you can see the HHO streaming out of the hose going to your engine, but are certain it isn't steam. You are right in that it probably isn't steam. But what you are seeing is water vapor carrying with it whatever corrosive electrolyte you are using. This water vapor is caused by the mechanical agitation of the electrolyte inside the cell. It can't be avoided, but you do need to take measures to remove the NaOH from this water vapor before it enters your throttle body, because it will cause damage to it over time.

We do this with a separate bubbler/scrubber. Search the forum and you should find lots of good information about this device.

Secondly, about your check engine light and MPG. I do not consider what your seeing to be unusual. I just installed a system on a 2005 Kia Spectra with a 2 liter engine. I started with straight HHO and ran it at several levels, even going as high as 2.5 lpm in one test, and never threw and check engine light -- never saw any MPG improvements, either. I then installed a volo performance chip and repeated the same test and got the same results. I have recently unhooked the volo and installed a conventional EFIE. While tuning the efie, I at one point had it so lean that when I pulled onto the interstate the engine died at 60 MPH -- and I still wasn't showing a check engine light. (and it is does light when I start the engine so I know the light bulb is good, and scan gauge doesn't show any error codes). Fortunately I am starting to see some MPG gains and am currently looking for the sweet spot as far as lpm go.

So, I guess my point here is that while some vehicles easily through a check engine light with HHO, some don't.

Sorry for the length of this message, I don't have time to make it short.

Steve

[lhazleton]

Steve,
Hurry up & get the Kia perfected! At some point, I'm actually gonna get the new motor (1.6L) for my '04 Rio and I'll just make it easy on myself and do whatever you do!:D:D

[witmeraa]

Thanks astrocady,

Yeah, after reading through the forum I was hearing about the corrosion problem that some have been having on there aluminum parts. That is scary business. I do have a bubblier after the reservoir but that just wasn't enough I guess. I will for sure look up on some of those threads you mentioned.

So you are suggesting installing an EFIE even if I am not seeing results and play with it and eventually I will see a change for the better in the mpg? With that I am just worried that the change that I will see is that I am only feeding it less fuel with the EFIE. I have also been reading and some have even installed a temperature gauge type deal in the exhaust so they can keep the engine running at factory temperature. I guess some have ran into overheating and ruining their engine due to a wrong adjustment on the EFIE?

Thx, Aaron

[lhazleton]

Aaron,
Just to give you an idea of corrosion, this is my original MAF after not using a well built bubbler:

[lhazleton]

Also, you need some form of equipment to change the A/F ratio (FS2, EFIE) or decreased MPG's can be expected. While inducing HHO, the O2 sensors see the increased oxygen level. Thinking the engine is running too lean, the ECU will send longer pulse signals to the injectors in an attempt to correct this.
I'd never run my system without a EGT gauge. They're like 30 bucks or so and may save an engine.

[witmeraa]

Thanks lhazleton

I will do some more homework and get back to you guys in this same thread down the road. I will work on getting these suggestions down. If anyone else has any input it would be greatly appreciated. You guys are great!

Thanks, Aaron

[Sniper168]

I'm new to your forums as well as HHO making, so bear with me. I just guilt a smack's booster with bubbler.
I have the following setup:
1) + wire coming from Fuel pump relay
2) this goes to 40amp relay.
3) 40amp relay goes to the Duel Digital EFIE as well as the CCPWM.
4a) the Duel Digital EFIE is hooked up as per the instructions -but I still wonder if I got the right wires...
4b) The CCPWM receives the + wire from #3, when the wire is hot, it allows + and - power lines from the Battery to come into the device and out to the Booster.
5) CCPWM maintains 11.9-12.2 amp and 13.5-14 volts.
6) HHO is generated and sent up through my bubbler.
7) Hydroxy gas then is routed to my air hose after the air filter which goes into the plenum.

I always have great gas mileage right up to about 1/2 of a tank, then the check engine light comes on and I can almost watch the fuel need move down (no kidding)!
Any ideas? Help, please?
Oh, it's on a 2001 Dodge Grand Caravan SE Sport 3.3 liter v6 FWD.

Thanks,
Sniper

[astrocady]

Sniper,
It sounds like you have your EFIE set to high -- you are trying to lean your fuel too much. During the first half of the tank, the computer and EFIE are fighting and then finally the computer say, "OK, something is not right here. I'm getting strange and conflicting reading from my sensors, so I'm shutting down the fuel management system and going to a set overly rich mixture to prevent any damage."

You will need to 'Play' with that EFIE setting -- Find the spot where it almost turns on the check engine light.

[myoldyourgold]

Astro is right and you might want to try having your reactor turn off at idle. I have had the same thing happen and this solved the problem in some cases. I was not using an EFFIE though.

[Sniper168]

hmmmmm.... and how do I do this? lol

[myoldyourgold]

Look at post 277

http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=6836&page=2

[Sniper168]

Look, I want to thank you all for entertaining my stupidity. I pulled out the papers that I downloaded and when I bought all this stuff and what do you think I found... but the freakin' directions on programing the EFIE.
Please forgive me for wasting your time.
But I will post back here to let you know how I make out.
Stupid Sniper
lol:eek:

[Sniper168]

I bought a new multi-meter and wouldn't ya know it, I can't for the life of me figure out how to get the readings that the paperwork is telling me I'm supposed to be getting.
THe paperwork said I'm should be starting st (I think) 350ma?
But I can't get my multi-meter to show me anything similar to that.
If you guys want to talk about shooting Haji's at 1200 meters, I'm all over that. But for the life of me this multi-meter is kicking my ass.
Sniper

[myoldyourgold]

First make sure the meter is set for millivolts something over the number you are looking for if you have a choice. Some meters have choices like 20 M or 2000M. You would have to chose 2000m if that was the only choices. Be cool and just pretend you are looking through your scope and take a deep breath and......

[Sniper168]

Ok so here's where I'm at. I set my multimeter to the 200m setting and was getting a reading from 200 to 0 (or close to 0 I think). Anyway, my instructions said that I should start out at 350mv and lean it out as far as I could until the engine started sputtering.
My engine would not sputter at all and the lowest I got was 60 before the Engine light came on.
I took off the ground wire to the battery to reset the computer, then started at 150 on my multimeter, lowering/leaning it out all the while watching this green LED light on the EFIE device.
That LED is supposed to be blinking - If it is solid, that is bad, if it is off, that too is bad.
So I was able to get my multimeter down to 90 and the LED is rapidly blinking away like a one man disco party.
I drove the car and all SEEMS to be fine; no loss of power, no sluggishness, no midgets chasing my down the road.
BUT! (and there is of course always a but), the Dual Digital EFIE that I have has a switch the, according the to the instructions, is for Dodge/Chrysler vehicles (which mine is Dodge Gr.Caravan) and should be in the off position if that is case. My EFIE arrived with this switch in the "ON" position and when I turn it to the off position my Green LED light goes out - which I'm guessing is bad.
Still shooting high and to the right.....
Sniper

[myoldyourgold]

Set your meter on the 2 position and ignore the decimal. 1 millivolt = 0.001 volts. If set at the 200mv you will read 0.

[Sniper168]

Ok, I set the multimeter on the "2" under the DCV category.
I plugged the red and bl
ack posted into the EFIE then started the car.
Sure enough, just as the instructions indicated, the beginning readings were 145.0 (.45 volts) After the 25 seconds of so, I noticed the volts coming down to the .090 that I had set it at a while ago.
I did drive the car and it seems quite fine.
My questions now are this:
1) The directions stated the green LED should be blinking, but does it matter if it's blinking fast, slow, etc? So long as it's not solid, and not off?
2) What the heck are these instructions talking about that switch intended for Dodge/Chrysler vehicles?
The instructions read, "There is a new switch added that was placed directly between the 2 red test points. The switch is only needed for making EFIE work on 2.5 volt, narrow band sensors, such as are used on some Dodge/Chrysler engines. For these, the switch should be in the "off" position. For all other vehicles, the switch should be left in the "on" p[osition. You can also tell which setting is selected by measuring the upper red test port with your meter. If the voltage is between 0 and .45 volts, its set for normal engine. If it's between 2.5 and 3.5 volts, then it's set for the Dodge/Chrysler modification."

It's almost like they're speaking enRish!

[myoldyourgold]

1) The directions stated the green LED should be blinking, but does it matter if it's blinking fast, slow, etc? So long as it's not solid, and not off?
2) What the heck are these instructions talking about that switch intended for Dodge/Chrysler vehicles?
The instructions read, "There is a new switch added that was placed directly between the 2 red test points. The switch is only needed for making EFIE work on 2.5 volt, narrow band sensors, such as are used on some Dodge/Chrysler engines. For these, the switch should be in the "off" position. For all other vehicles, the switch should be left in the "on" p[osition. You can also tell which setting is selected by measuring the upper red test port with your meter. If the voltage is between 0 and .45 volts, its set for normal engine. If it's between 2.5 and 3.5 volts, then it's set for the Dodge/Chrysler modification."

I am going to be no help here. I have very little experience with EFIE's because most of my research is to try and avoid the use of one. Some of the others here who have had a lot of experience with them should be able to help you out. I have used very simple ones on obdI systems to see what the difference is between my mods and an EFIE but am working on OBDII right now and will be getting a digital one soon to do further testing.

[astrocady]

OK -- I'm not an EFIE expert either, but I think I know what is going on. I assume you're using a FuelSaver-MPG analog narrow band EFIE.

If you put your meter between the two test probe ports on the EFIE, you are reading the voltage that you are adding to the O2 signal. Normally that reading should be between 250 - 350 mili-volts.

If you put your meter between the black port and ground, you will read the voltage coming from the O2 sensor. On MOST cars this will rapidly fluctuate between 0 and 1 volt. If you put your meter between the red test port and ground, your meter will read the corrected signal going to the computer --- the reading from the black port added to the reading from the red-to-black port.

As I said, MOST cars use a signal voltage of between 0 and 1 volts. SOME DOGES use a higher signal voltage ranging up to 2.5 volts.

If the meter reading between the black port and ground goes above 1 volt, then you have one of the odd-balls, so you will need to put that switch in the off position.

I hope I've cleared this up a little rather than just muddying the water further
:)

Steve

[Sniper168]

Thanks for all the advice gentlement - especially your patience Steve.
Now, onto a final thought; Do I need to install a flash-back arrestor?
it seems very straight forward to make and install, but isn't that what the bubbler is for?
Sniper

[myoldyourgold]

Do I need to install a flash-back arrestor?
it seems very straight forward to make and install, but isn't that what the bubbler is for?

Short answer YES. Be safe!!!

[frodo2222]

Hi you All!
I am having the same issues as you on the EFFIE and the lack of better MPG on my 1999 Town Country with the 3.8l engine.
I have messed with the different settings and have done many many 6 miles circuits with the different ones going up by 30 millivolts at the time and the best I can get is 21.6 MPG average over the 6 mile course. at 330 on front sensor and 200 on rear.

It seems like you wrote the computer shows way better MPG for about 1 mile and then the computer overrides or changes things and then it's back to the normal 20-21 range of MPG.
Any help or guidance on how to make it get better MPG is HUGELY appreciated!!

looking FORWARD TO HEARING YOU GUYS THOUGHTS AND HINTS!!

PS did you ever get that van to get more MPG and what did you do to make it happen!:)