First Try, Any Advice?

[CR500]

Here's my first shot at an HHO. Let me know what you think.

316 SS plates
Five sides sealed, electrolyte below top, small openings on sides near bottom.
~1.5 mm spacing.

+NNNNNN-NNNNNN+NNNNNN-

22 plates = 7 gaps per cell, three cells in parallel.
Area of one face (3"x9") = 27sqin.
Area of one face x 3 (parallel sections) = 81sqin

0.25 A / sqin = 20A
0.50 A / sqin = 40A

KOH electrolyte
Plates sanded and cleaned with acetone

At 30A gas production was only about 0.5 L/m. Minimum to no visible water vapor. Wiring needs to be increase as voltage dropped to 11.5v. Using two 14g solid copper conductors (romex). Actually, voltage at the battery also dropped to 13.5v (alternator is brand new but only 65A).

Any ideas about the poor performance?
Will the 13.5v drop to 11.5v cause the output to drop so much?
I've read that sand blasting is better than sanding. I only have access to a bead blaster. Should I give that a shot and re-clean the plates?

I ran it several hours and didn't seen any discoloration in the electrolyte.

Thanks!

Here are some pictures:
http://mysite.verizon.net/resr5ulb/plates.JPG
http://mysite.verizon.net/resr5ulb/sanded.JPG
http://mysite.verizon.net/resr5ulb/assembled1.JPG
http://mysite.verizon.net/resr5ulb/assembled2.JPG

[myoldyourgold]

Can you please explain how you are sealing 5 faces. What material is on the bottom edge of the plates?

As far as wiring I use # 8 for short runs from solenoid to the reactor and from the battery #6 or #4 and for much longer runs #2. All wire is multiple strand, the more strands the better. If the wire is not very flexible you need more strands. I try and have the solenoid close as possible to the reactor. Voltage loss of just .2 volts will result in a significant loss in production and amps. At 11.5 volts you are only getting 1.64 volts per gap.

Where and how are you measuring your amps? Remember with 3 stacks you are splitting the amps by 3 so you are running on 10 amps per stack if in fact you are getting 30 amps at the reactor. I suspect you are actually pulling less amps at the reactor. With a little more information we might be able to solve the problem. You might do better with a smaller reactor 2 stacks instead of 3.

[CR500]

Can you please explain how you are sealing 5 faces. What material is on the bottom edge of the plates?

While tinkering I wanted to keep the plate stack easy to disassemble. The bottoms are coated with that plastic dip material. The coating ended up so thick that it touches when assembled. I wrapped the rest of the assembly with electrical tape (prior to reading all the comments about doing that). I plan on replacing that with splicing/vulcanizing tape. When I'm happy with the design / performance, all tape will be removed and an encapsulating urethane will be used to seal the egdes.

I powered it up again the other day and it was producing a serious amount of foam (none present during the initial testing). I guess that means the tape has failed and its now acting as a wet-cell. I don't plan on turning it on again until thats fixed.



As far as wiring I use # 8 for short runs from solenoid to the reactor and from the battery #6 or #4 and for much longer runs #2. All wire is multiple strand, the more strands the better. If the wire is not very flexible you need more strands. I try and have the solenoid close as possible to the reactor. Voltage loss of just .2 volts will result in a significant loss in production and amps. At 11.5 volts you are only getting 1.64 volts per gap.

Where and how are you measuring your amps? Remember with 3 stacks you are splitting the amps by 3 so you are running on 10 amps per stack if in fact you are getting 30 amps at the reactor. I suspect you are actually pulling less amps at the reactor. With a little more information we might be able to solve the problem. You might do better with a smaller reactor 2 stacks instead of 3.

Unfortunately, the assembly was too tall to fit under the hood so I mounted it in the bed of the truck. I convinced myself this was a good thing so hydrogen would not be trapped under the hood in the event of a leak. A second bubbler is under the hood. Of course, the bad part is the long wiring run.

Wow, #8 for short runs. At what current?

I definitely need to revisit the wiring. Right now its wired through the fuse panel / ignition switch which is resulting in a voltage drop on its own. My wire (two 14 g conductors on the positive side) results in an additional voltage drop. A ground wire was added to the chassis and that removed the majority of the drop on the ground path.

I'll probably get some long jumper cables to use as the wires. #2g wire would probably have to come from a welding shop. Probably be best to move the generator to a temporary stand next to the battery so more reasonable wire can be used.

Current was measured with a DC probe attached near the fuse panel (not at the terminal of the generator).

Guess I need to dig through my notes to find the recommended minimum voltage per gap (2?) and adjust the number of plates (as you suggest) to get above that minimum.

Thanks for the help!

Here's a picture of the assembled unit:
http://mysite.verizon.net/resr5ulb/complete.JPG

Edit: I had been using the recommendation from Patrick J. Kelly "A practical Guide to Free Energy Devices" updated 2007. He suggest the voltage per cell has limited effect as it reaches 1.24 v. Above that goes into heat production. But then he recommends 6 cells for 12v and 7 for "almost 14v".

[lhazleton]

[QUOTE=CR500;43191]Here's my first shot at an HHO. Let me know what you think.

There are a few issues here:

316 SS plates
Five sides sealed, electrolyte below top, small openings on sides near bottom.
~1.5 mm spacing.
+NNNNNN-NNNNNN+NNNNNN-

Sealing the ends won't do anything except make less active area.

22 plates = 7 gaps per cell, three cells in parallel.

It's 7 cells per stack, 3 stacks parallel.

Area of one face (3"x9") = 27sqin.
Area of one face x 3 (parallel sections) = 81sqin

Only measure 1 side of 1 plate for active area.

0.25 A / sqin = 20A
0.50 A / sqin = 40A

KOH electrolyte<< Good
Plates sanded and cleaned with acetone <<Good

At 30A gas production was only about 0.5 L/m. Minimum to no visible water vapor. Wiring needs to be increase as voltage dropped to 11.5v. Using two 14g solid copper conductors (romex). Actually, voltage at the battery also dropped to 13.5v (alternator is brand new but only 65A).

Any ideas about the poor performance?

It's an 'open bath' design.

what percentage of KOH?
Will the 13.5v drop to 11.5v cause the output to drop so much?
I've read that sand blasting is better than sanding. I only have access to a bead blaster. Should I give that a shot and re-clean the plates?

You want the surfaces rough. Don't use glass beads. Use aluminum oxide instead.

Try increasing the KOH a little at a time.

By the way, very nice looking build for the first attempt! Kudos on your effort!

[CR500]

Sealing the ends won't do anything except make less active area.

I'll cut off the ends to make them all the same length and plan on completely encapsulating the bottom.

It's 7 cells per stack, 3 stacks parallel.
Only measure 1 side of 1 plate for active area.

Roger that.

what percentage of KOH?

Don't know. I filled it with distilled water, monitored current and sprinkled in the KOH.


You want the surfaces rough. Don't use glass beads. Use aluminum oxide instead.

Got it. Unfortunately its not my blaster so I can't change the media. Guess I'll stay with current condition.



By the way, very nice looking build for the first attempt! Kudos on your effort!

Appreciate it! Now just need to get it working before the B2200 test bed dies (has 200kmi).