ultra efficient

[ultra_efficient]

i have been making dry cells with no holes, they are way way more efficient. low amp draw and high output. i use a dell 300 watt power supply for testing with a maximum of 18 amps on the 12 volt.

when i make cells with no holes i can get over 1LPM for less then 10amps@12vdc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM_lWCwxTI8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEkXgZlS8XE

[ultra_efficient]

testing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDPAC6ZUS3U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1qjC6mMNkk

[lhazleton]

Well Richard, I see you're back in here.
What I don't understand is how your 'no holes' reactor is plumbed.
For a true no hole design, there must be e/lyte & gas hoses for each cell gap. On yours, I don't see any, just ports in the endplates like any other drycell reactor.
Maybe you can post some pictures that show this?:D

[Roland Jacques]

Richard WHO? :D:D:D:D

[lhazleton]

You got it Roland!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At least I'm way far away up here in upstate NY. Georgia is much closer! LOL
Bumpity, bumpity, bump!:D:D:D:D
Sneaky rascal, huh?
Down wit prejudice......................

[ultra_efficient]

ok, all the no holes cell i have seen so far as way too crazy plumbing, and some had manual refilling etc. i just wanted a regular dry cell that was made the old way but just no holes in the plates. so as long as i could get a fully circulating cell just the old dry cells and have no holes, that's what i set out to build because the holes cause the current to raise no matter how good you think you can make a dry cell. if you have holes you have leak, some leak more than some. so i came up with this way to make the construction as similar as possible to the old way of making the dry cell. that way it will circulate just like the old dry cell design with no current leakage.
im in bed now but will post a video of how its build and the parts used in the morning.

[lhazleton]

Richard, we're still waiting.
It would be great to see how you've done this!

[ultra_efficient]

sorry for the delay, i was busy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szLJFl0x2bc



i glue shower pan liner and thin silicon sheets to construct the edges.
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/2578/dscf4133.th.jpg (http://img97.imageshack.us/i/dscf4133.jpg/)
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/7798/dscf4136j.th.jpg (http://img194.imageshack.us/i/dscf4136j.jpg/)
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/14/dscf4139f.th.jpg (http://img839.imageshack.us/i/dscf4139f.jpg/)
http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/9053/dscf4140h.th.jpg (http://img821.imageshack.us/i/dscf4140h.jpg/)

[ultra_efficient]

when finish i glue the outside.
http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/9404/dscf4144.th.jpg (http://img860.imageshack.us/i/dscf4144.jpg/)
http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/9716/dscf4143.th.jpg (http://img864.imageshack.us/i/dscf4143.jpg/)
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/1426/dscf4129.th.jpg (http://img121.imageshack.us/i/dscf4129.jpg/)
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/3230/dscf4135j.th.jpg (http://img251.imageshack.us/i/dscf4135j.jpg/)

[ultra_efficient]

i use big wires as always and connect them to the bottom of the cell and the connections directly on the plates.
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9656/dscf4145y.th.jpg (http://img59.imageshack.us/i/dscf4145y.jpg/)
http://img852.imageshack.us/img852/2048/dscf4146.th.jpg (http://img852.imageshack.us/i/dscf4146.jpg/)
http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/7572/dscf4148a.th.jpg (http://img812.imageshack.us/i/dscf4148a.jpg/)
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/7865/dscf4149c.th.jpg (http://img121.imageshack.us/i/dscf4149c.jpg/)

Admins sorry for the multi post but i can only post 4 pics per post

[lhazleton]

After watching your video, I'm assuming that after lining up the plates & gaskets the 4 bolts are removed & where they were is the e/lyte and gas connectors?

[Roland Jacques]

Very good design Richard. I did not watch the whole video yet, but i see where you where going with it. I had a similar design a few years back.

There is a "Star cell" that also had a simple no hole design also. I'll see if i can find a link.

The gasket material and tapering edges is the key for long sealing cells of this type. Good job.

[lhazleton]

Wouldn't there still be current leakage between the plates where the e/lyte passes? I don't see how there couldn't be, but as Roland stated, very nice build!

[ultra_efficient]

After watching your video, I'm assuming that after lining up the plates & gaskets the 4 bolts are removed & where they were is the e/lyte and gas connectors?

correct!. i just put them there to aline everything.

[ultra_efficient]

Very good design Richard. I did not watch the whole video yet, but i see where you where going with it. I had a similar design a few years back.

There is a "Star cell" that also had a simple no hole design also. I'll see if i can find a link.

The gasket material and tapering edges is the key for long sealing cells of this type. Good job.

i just wanted the cell to circulate freely and the electrolyte not subject to a current leak field when entering and exiting the cells. by guiding the electrolyte outside of the reaction field(in between 2 stainless steel plates) for entering and exiting the cell.

im currently working on another highly efficient cell. will share when finish if its better than this one.

[myoldyourgold]

Lee I must agree with you about being a good build and the fact there will still be leakage. By the looks of the ports there seems to be some kind of insulation on them. If this is the case then the insulation will help limit leakage but not stop it 100%. Electrolyte is shared with all the cells. Holes are just in a different position but they are still holes. Great design to help limit current leakage though.

A real no hole design is a non circulating reactor and has no current leakage. Ultra's design might not be quite as good or be the same, as a design where each cell has its own input and exit port which is in a spacer between the plates and uses the same (shared) reservoir through a manifold.

It would be interesting to see how much difference if there really is one.

The design where each cell has its own reservoir is the only one that has the least leakage, some claim none, but I am not totally sold on the "none". Good job Ultra and will be looking for your new one.

[rcflyn]

This is a NICE Looking build...
I'm just curious as to the MPG Increase expectations?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[ultra_efficient]

Lee I must agree with you about being a good build and the fact there will still be leakage. By the looks of the ports there seems to be some kind of insulation on them. If this is the case then the insulation will help limit leakage but not stop it 100%. Electrolyte is shared with all the cells. Holes are just in a different position but they are still holes. Great design to help limit current leakage though.

A real no hole design is a non circulating reactor and has no current leakage. Ultra's design might not be quite as good or be the same, as a design where each cell has its own input and exit port which is in a spacer between the plates and uses the same (shared) reservoir through a manifold.

It would be interesting to see how much difference if there really is one.

The design where each cell has its own reservoir is the only one that has the least leakage, some claim none, but I am not totally sold on the "none". Good job Ultra and will be looking for your new one.

yes you will have a little resistance because the cells are linked via one storage tank ect but yes this design cut the current leakage drastically.

for my next design none of the cells will link by electrolyte

[ultra_efficient]

This is a NICE Looking build...
I'm just curious as to the MPG Increase expectations?!?!?!?!?!?!?

MPG is all about tuning. some tune might be weaker than some. tuning varies ALOT. tuning with HHO is the hardest thing on earth to tune!. too much things to take into consideration when tuning a car to run on HHO. there is no fixed number. you have to take in account off the amount of power you are going to use, how much your car use at full load, how much power your alternator can handle comfortably without burning out. then base on your driving habits(how much torque you use) tune to replace some of your gasoline usage with HHO. its a dance between torque and fuel. drop the fuel too much and you wont have the torque you need. also you have to keep in mind how far you open your throttle @ what RPM and how much air the engine uses at those TP(throttle position) and RPM vs the amount of fuel and air flow you need to have the required torque you desire.

Tuning is as personal as your fingerprint. there is no set number because of the millions of variations. engine displacement, alternator, torque demand, hho system efficiency, driving habits, etc......

here is how i drive and tune. i don't open the TP pass 20%, i don't go over 3000RPM. i find that not opening the TP over 20% i wont drown the HHO&gasoline with too much air. that way i still have strong torque and i have enough acceleration and speed without going over 3000RPM.

i just did this video today. the cell was putting out about 3.6LPM @ 29amps. configuration is -nnnnn+nnnnn-nnnnn+ with no amp rise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ypEv1n9Qsg

[rcflyn]

MPG is all about tuning. some tune might be weaker than some. tuning varies ALOT. tuning with HHO is the hardest thing on earth to tune!. too much things to take into consideration when tuning a car to run on HHO. there is no fixed number. you have to take in account off the amount of power you are going to use, how much your car use at full load, how much power your alternator can handle comfortably without burning out. then base on your driving habits(how much torque you use) tune to replace some of your gasoline usage with HHO. its a dance between torque and fuel. drop the fuel too much and you wont have the torque you need. also you have to keep in mind how far you open your throttle @ what RPM and how much air the engine uses at those TP(throttle position) and RPM vs the amount of fuel and air flow you need to have the required torque you desire.

Tuning is as personal as your fingerprint. there is no set number because of the millions of variations. engine displacement, alternator, torque demand, hho system efficiency, driving habits, etc......

here is how i drive and tune. i don't open the TP pass 20%, i don't go over 3000RPM. i find that not opening the TP over 20% i wont drown the HHO&gasoline with too much air. that way i still have strong torque and i have enough acceleration and speed without going over 3000RPM.

i just did this video today. the cell was putting out about 3.6LPM @ 29amps. configuration is -nnnnn+nnnnn-nnnnn+ with no amp rise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ypEv1n9Qsg


That didn't answer my Question though.... I understand all of what you said.. I am just curious as to what you EXPECT your MPG Increase to be with this design???????

[ultra_efficient]

That didn't answer my Question though.... I understand all of what you said.. I am just curious as to what you EXPECT your MPG Increase to be with this design???????

im getting 45MPG when i should be getting 25MPG. if i put a PWM on my fuel pump and turn down the pressure i can get more

[koya1893]

im getting 45MPG when i should be getting 25MPG. if i put a PWM on my fuel pump and turn down the pressure i can get more

Richard, first let me say welcome back and glad to see you kept up on building your madness. I would like to know more about installing a PWM on a electric fuel pump to decrease pressure. I've slept since, but from what I recall when I first started my "gearhead" days we always wanted to increase the pressure.

Also, I want to say your inovation has reach another mile stone from what I saw in you video and glad to see you are incorporating your cell in front of the radiator.

Are you using the AFC on the Saturn? How much HHO are you inducing?

[ultra_efficient]

Richard, first let me say welcome back and glad to see you kept up on building your madness. I would like to know more about installing a PWM on a electric fuel pump to decrease pressure. I've slept since, but from what I recall when I first started my "gearhead" days we always wanted to increase the pressure.

Also, I want to say your inovation has reach another mile stone from what I saw in you video and glad to see you are incorporating your cell in front of the radiator.

Are you using the AFC on the Saturn? How much HHO are you inducing?

thanks and yes im using a AFC on a Saturn even thou people said it couldn't be done. and im using the AFC for the opposite of what people normally use it for, most people use it for it's plus side(+) but im using it for the minus (-) side. if you notice in my videos my MAP line on the AFC is deep in the minus, none of the line is about -20, even that driving test video where my girl almost crash, the AFC was at a flat line on -30 and still had a good torque.
today i did a 150 miles test drive with settings -40 from 0RPM to 1000RPM and -30 from 1000RPM to 3000RPM and still had quick acceleration.

everything im doing is on the (-)minus side of tuning. lower fuel pressures, just enough gasoline to keep the injectors wet. MAP line on the minus side. air flow above normal. temperatures below normal. smaller injectors. 4 tip spark plugs. high amp output PMA(permanent magnet alternator).
im porting 3 to 4LPM to a 2200cc engine. the specs for the engine is on the Saturn site or just Google it. i can get 5LPM out of this cell but it will get above 100f and i don't want that.

the whole HHO world is all about efficiency, no matter how little.

[ultra_efficient]

when i said ultra efficient i mean it even at cold start in the rain, and no more foam or vapor in the lines

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuhqpgSBowg

[ultra_efficient]

wow i just did a search for "Karman spectrum" on this site and nothing came up :eek: am i the only one checking the Karman spectrum of the different RPMs?. im new to the whole PWM thing but im starting to believe that sometimes you dont need one in your setup if your Karman spectrum is perfect at the RPMs that you need it to kick in high. eg. at 1500 to 2000 RPM you can be getting 50amps@20khz, that would be nice.`

but people please look into your Karman spectrum at the RPMs you drive at the most, then check how that Karman spectrum affects your HHO cell.

[ultra_efficient]

4LPM@30amps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH8Wu1GHGg4

[koya1893]

Richard,
would you be so kind as to show us how you have your holes drilled on your plates. Also, what's your mixture? The NaOH you use is what I tell my clients to use in the event they cannot find or ran out of supply. It is easy to get from any hardware store.

I was never good at math, but 4lpm @ 30 amps, man that's 2lpm at 15 amps and 1 lpm at 7.5 amps. The solution was still clear.

[ultra_efficient]

yea as you can see its pumping out alot, this is the first time i took it up to 30amps and it still didn't get hot. the cell plates got up to about 84f after 2 hours driving.

the cell plates have no holes, none of my cell plates have any edge or holes touching the electrolyte mixture so i don't have a high current lost and heat. the configuration is -nnnnn+nnnnn-nnnnn+. i did all i could to get the best efficiency, make the plates wider than tall 4"x6", make my connections at the bottom of the cell on both sides for a better power distribution, make my connections facing each other on both sides, connect my wire terminals directly to the plates(not to bolts then have power lost because the bolts don't carry the full amount of power). i design this cell to function like a regular dry cell but without the high current leak from plate edges or holes.

i already post how i made it. look on this thread in earlier post, but a word of advice, don't build this cell if you have a short temper LOL :D

[H2OPWR]

Richard, If I may be bold without causing flame wars. What caused all the trouble last time you were here before you were banned was wild claims without proof. You state that you only want to help so I am asking for your help. You state 4 LPM at 30 amps. At the voltage you show that production is WAY over unity. That is what we all would love to see. So far all I can see is wild claims with no proof. If you can build a cell that makes 4 LPM at 30 amps and 13+- Volts I would love to see just how you did it.

Before I will be convinced I would need to see an uncut video bench testing at 13+- Volts and 30 amps. I would also need to see several good tests showing 1 liter in 15 seconds at those power levels. That information and proof would make you the MAN. I could arrange your own show on the SmartScareCrow show where you could show it off.

Richard, You could get the Nobel Peace Prize with proof of those numbers. It would pave the way for an oil free economy and cars powered off just water. You could become rich beyond your wildest dreams if you can pull that off.

Richard I watched that video twice. That production looks to me like somewhere around 2 LPM+-. If you are going to be taken seriously then I suggest you set up some tests with good equipment that proves your statements.

Thanks in advance for showing all of us how.

Larry

[ultra_efficient]

i will get a clamp around amp meter soon and make a test video but im not looking for anything from anybody, just here to share. i don't care about shows and what not

[H2OPWR]

i will get a clamp around amp meter soon and make a test video but im not looking for anything from anybody, just here to share. i don't care about shows and what not

Richard, As I have found out a clamp meter is not all that accurate. If you want real numbers to back your claims then a lab grade shunt and a good multimeter is the only way to be completely accurate. At the numbers you are claiming you need to be 100% accurate.

Larry

[ultra_efficient]

really? :eek: i have a 75amp shunt and a 100amp meter but always think the shunt test was leaking a little current so i was thinking about getting a clamp around amp meter im going to make a short 0.5awg cable to connect to my shunt and connect that to my cell and do a test after the hho games. im going in the morning so sunday ill setup my shunt and amp meter and test bottle and do a test. thanks for the heads up on the shunt!!!

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/2634/dsc05398hy.th.jpg (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/dsc05398hy.jpg/)

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/319/dsc05399w.th.jpg (http://img824.imageshack.us/i/dsc05399w.jpg/)

http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/9127/dsc05400.th.jpg (http://img859.imageshack.us/i/dsc05400.jpg/)

[H2OPWR]

really? :eek: i have a 75amp shunt and a 100amp meter but always think the shunt test was leaking a little current so i was thinking about getting a clamp around amp meter im going to make a short 0.5awg cable to connect to my shunt and connect that to my cell and do a test after the hho games. im going in the morning so sunday ill setup my shunt and amp meter and test bottle and do a test. thanks for the heads up on the shunt!!!

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/2634/dsc05398hy.th.jpg (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/dsc05398hy.jpg/)

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/319/dsc05399w.th.jpg (http://img824.imageshack.us/i/dsc05399w.jpg/)

http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/9127/dsc05400.th.jpg (http://img859.imageshack.us/i/dsc05400.jpg/)

Richard I answered your PM before I looked at this post. You will not get accurate readings from that meter with that shunt unless they were sold as a set which I doubt because the shunt os 75 amp and the meter is 100. When they are sold as a set the shunt is usually attached to the back of the meter and will be a solid copper bar with connection points on each side. Forget the meter and place the shunt inline on the positive lead to the cell.

Before you do that you first need to know how the shunt reads. They all are read using the milivolt scale on a multimeter. The easy ones are 1 to 1. One milivolt equals one amp. Many do not read that way. The ones I have one milivolt is 1.5 amps. They can vary from .5 to 1 all the way to 2 to 1. Your shunt should be marked somewhere.

If you are reading that shunt with that meter my guess is that your readings are actually running through 2 shunts not one and are incorrect.

Larry

[H2OPWR]

Richard, I looked closer at those pictures. The shunt ts a 50 mv 75 amp shunt. That means a 1 milivolt reading on a multimeter is 1.5 amps. You can't use that panel meter with that shunt. The readings will be false. Hook up a digital multimeter to the shunt. Set it to the milivolt setting. 10 milivolts will be 15 amps. 20 milivolts will be 30 amps and so on. Your accuracy will be perfect as for amperage unless you are at very low amps like under 5 or so.

Larry

[ultra_efficient]

i buy the meter first then when i got home it said on the box "requires a shunt" then i went back and buy a shunt but i didn't take into mind it might need to be the same as the meter. i just buy one that i think my HHO cell will be under, because im not thinking of going over 50 amps on my HHO system. thanks for the heads ups.

look what i got for free today. with brass tubing! :D

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/1386/dsc05407.th.jpg (http://img845.imageshack.us/i/dsc05407.jpg/)

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/8898/dsc05406k.th.jpg (http://img228.imageshack.us/i/dsc05406k.jpg/)

i always wanted back one.

[Gatech]

What happened?. I want to know more about the "Ultra-efficient" Dry Cell.... :(

[reggaerican]

hello richard, i am new to this forum but have been reserching hho production for about a year or so. first i want to complement you on a great build, I to am a diy kinda guy. most people think im absolutly crazy because my plan is to build a system that will run my 1990 toyota tacoma 100% on hho. most people think its not possible so your threads are really inspireing to me.
everything i seem to reed says the same thing that all i could hope to get is 1lpm @ 30a and 12v? you sem to have found the holy grail so any help would be sooooooo so appreciated...

thanks

[ultra_efficient]

after over a year its time for a new reactor build, this reactor as served me well, i have done about 30k miles with it and even at take down it was still preforming very very efficient, the seals held up to time. im very happy with this reactor. i am going to replace it with 2 new reactors that i have been working on, each reactor will have plate size 5"x5", 4 1/4" holes each (n)neural and (-)negative plate but no holes in the (+)positive plate, layout like this -nnnnnn+nnnnnn- my aim is to stay above 6mmw

this is the Ultra Efficient Cell

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/9811/img20120721001244.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/442/img20120721001244.jpg/)

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/3188/img20120721001035.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/171/img20120721001035.jpg/)

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/5677/img20120721001338.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/94/img20120721001338.jpg/)

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/7237/img20120721000933.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/703/img20120721000933.jpg/)

this reactor has served me well for over a year

[ultra_efficient]

system upgrade with a new dry cell. ready to go another 100,000 miles or 1 year before i will build another one. im so happy and comfortable with this cell.

-nnnnnn+nnnnnn-nnnnnn+nnnnnn- no holes in the center plate, 3 holes each plate. all holes 1/4 inch. 5"x5", 1/4" gaskets, NaOH, carbon filtered water because publix stop selling deionized water :( i found a new way to connect the wires that waste less current im loving it! i use soldering wire to make washers, 2 for each connection.

i have new builds coming up, i will make new threads :D

[infoleather]

A star grid, a simple non-porous design also. I can see if I can find a link.

[ultra_efficient]

been busy but here are some videos. i just did one big reactor instead of 2 small ones. im very happy with this system, ready for another 100,000 miles :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCxUbEqZ0XY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5J6ESWmjGY

[hotmaler20]

Hi Richard !

I have been following your work and im very impressed.

Could you please help me out with the details of your latest build?

I have seen the videos, but im not able to make out the exact orientation and how the hole config of each plate is.... you have mentioned 3 holes per plate, could you please clarify this? Gasket size mentioned as 1/4" which when converted to mm gives 6.35 mm??? is this correct?

Also in one of your videos, you have mentioned that instead of pwm, you are using joule theif driver. Could you please share the design or guide me how to build and connect one to the cell?

If possible please give an outline to how I could build the latest of your designs.


I know you are busy and I appreciate the time you take to experiment and share these details. Thanks.....