Charged Water vapor?

[Roland Jacques]

What is charged water Vapor? Id like to know more about Ionizing Water Vapor and the like. Any info would be appreciated.

Looking at The new old 1992 Stan Meyers Video, and Some work from those in the Fred Wells Group, plus other evidence, this article from FUTURE ENERGY eNEWS seems more relevant than normal.

From FUTURE ENERGY eNEWS

"We are pleased to present an excerpt this month of one of many great COFE4 papers that you can experience in person at the conference. We are featuring Moray King, who has put together a fascinating theory that the dominant energy coming from the water electrolyzers is not from hydrogen, but rather it is from another source which might be far more energetic: charged water gas clusters, which activate and coherently harvest zero-point energy (ZPE). His experimental evidence is also quite compelling (story #1).

(ZPE).http://www.integrityresearchinstitute.org/Enews/EnewsJan2011.htm

[myoldyourgold]

Try charging the air which always has some moisture in it. Works for me.

[Roland Jacques]

Try charging the air which always has some moisture in it. Works for me.

How do you do that?

[BioFarmer93]

How do you do that?

Let's see... the "active" ingredient in air is O2.... I wonder if there is anything with more O than O2.... Hhmm... I wonder what that would be...
Come on Roland, you know you've thought about it before.. In a minute when you figure it out, look for prior art & PM me. You'll have one of those head slap kind of moments- and there is sufficient prior art out there in patent land to convince even your cynical butt.:D I'm gathering pieces to build a couple of them now for my dual air intakes.... Carter has a lot more smarts than he lets on, I'll bet he's a master poker player. So, to quote one of my all time favorite movie characters- "and that's all I got to say about that..."

[Roland Jacques]

No head slapping this time Biofarmer. I'm ignorant or just a real slow learn on many things especially when it comes to electricity, Ionizing air or steam, is just one more to add to my list.

I know the basic idea that you are suppose to use "high" voltage to create it, one surface charge pos and another negative and then pass air over it. But that's about all i know. I guess in some ways it is similar to a electrolysis. I look at a electric air purifier and im sure that is what it does, but i don't really know how it does it what kind of voltage does it need for how much air flow..., or how would you build one? If you wanted to do this for a ICE i really don't know the details to make that work. Not a big deal, i don't have time to play with that right now anyway, but i do hope to get a handle on the process one day.

[myoldyourgold]

Here is a good clue and there are others.

http://www.negativeiongenerators.com/carionizer.html

[lhazleton]

Alright, now you two (Gus & Carter) are ****in' me off LOL.
My interest is peaked on this, and though Roland may be a bit 'slow' on some things, you know damn well that I'm retarded on most.
Now, spill the beans, will ya???????????:D

[lhazleton]

Gus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know you're building an negative ion generator & I want one!

If I don't get the plans by midnight tonight, the little dog gets it!

[myoldyourgold]

Think ozone too.

[lhazleton]

Four hours to go & then I vaporize the little mutt............:D

[koya1893]

This is great stuff, but you guys are way over my head on some of the discussion you get into. so if you see a huges smoke cloud coming from my direction, it is because I am doing my best to understand. I really missed those Navy classroom with lots of pictures for show and tell.

[BioFarmer93]

Gus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know you're building an negative ion generator & I want one!

If I don't get the plans by midnight tonight, the little dog gets it!

Lee, I'm going to use a high output automotive ignition coil, glass microscope slides & .05" aluminum sheets w/ a hole in the end of each one for a 6-32 brass machine screw that will be used to supply power to & align each side of each unit... Oh geeeezz, here's your plan.... I swear, the things I do for you kids

[lhazleton]

Thanks, Gus..........Very precise, especially the measurements!
I'm trying to find the exact scientific amount for 'wee tiny dab'.:D

[BioFarmer93]

Lee-
4 wee tiny dabs = 1 smidgeon,
16 smidgeons = 1 dollop
24 dollops = 1 cup...
...you know the rest from there, glad I could help ;)

[Roland Jacques]

Sweet drawing, i wish i could do that. It almost makes me want to go back to school to learn how to do that.

I'll tell you I did not get The Ozone idea at first Then your drawing finished the picture for me. Yeah there was some head slapping. Fuel injection a reactive O3, it really make you think...

[BioFarmer93]

....injection of a reactive O3, it really makes you think...


Amen, Brother...

[myoldyourgold]

Fuel injection a reactive O3, it really make you think...

Puts a big smile on my face when I go to fill up.

[oicu812]

If you use water vapor and pass it through a corona ionizer won't nitric acid form and desolve the electrodes?

[BioFarmer93]

If you use water vapor and pass it through a corona ionizer won't nitric acid form and desolve the electrodes?

I don't know, will it? If so then perhaps it would be best to induce any water vapor or HHO downstream from the ionizer. Why don't you find some relevant info on the topic and post a link for us?;)

[oicu812]

I don't know, will it? If so then perhaps it would be best to induce any water vapor or HHO downstream from the ionizer. Why don't you find some relevant info on the topic and post a link for us?;)Easy big fella... Didn't mean to rile anyone up. I noticed in a google search that comercial corona type ionizers warn of moisture in the air causing nitric acid which will damage the unit.

[BioFarmer93]

Easy big fella... Didn't mean to rile anyone up. I noticed in a google search that comercial corona type ionizers warn of moisture in the air causing nitric acid which will damage the unit.

Wow, I guess I have a rep now, maybe I shoulda put a smiley face:) after that request. Not riled- really. If you stumble upon the link again please post as I'd like to read it.:D:D

[Roland Jacques]

Wow, I guess I have a rep now, maybe I shoulda put a smiley face:) after that request. Not riled- really. If you stumble upon the link again please post as I'd like to read it.:D:D You did have a smiley face. ;)

[BioFarmer93]

You did have a smiley face. ;)

Oh yeah, so I did! Forgot about that one...

[myoldyourgold]

Mine has always been before the HHO and have been using it for over 2 years and no problems at all. The way I am set up there is no room anywhere else. It is the first thing the incoming air passes. I have not seen any damage to painted surfaces in the route or air cleaner.

[oicu812]

Wow, I guess I have a rep now, maybe I shoulda put a smiley face:) after that request. Not riled- really. If you stumble upon the link again please post as I'd like to read it.:D:D

Sorry bout that... I guess I'm overly sensitive:o I'm very interested in your project and think its a fantastic idea! I truely think you guys are on to something here. I came to the conclusion awhile back that brute force electrolysis is simply to energy consuming. Heres a link to that nitric acid issue.
http://www.ozoneapplications.com/info/cd_vs_uv.htm

Ozone Being created via Corona Discharge.

At the heart of a corona discharge ozone system is the dielectric. The electrical charge is diffused over this dielectric surface, creating an electrical field, or “corona”.

Critical to CD ozone systems is proper air preparation. The gas feeding the ozone generator must be very dry (minimum -80 degrees F), because the presence of moisture affects ozone production and leads to the formation of nitric acid. Nitric acid is very corrosive to critical internal parts of a CD ozone generator, which can cause premature failure and will significantly increase the frequency of maintenance. The chart below shows that relative ozone output decreases as moisture content increases.

[BioFarmer93]

oicu812,
OK, just reading between the lines a little bit here, I think that verbage might possibly have been put in place to prepare prospective customers for the purchase of further enhancements- http://www.ozoneapplications.com/products/Air_Dryers/magnum.htm
-for laboratory grade air quality. My (and I'm sure Carter's) units will be at the whims of nature and will on occasion be completely inundated with with water (rain) let alone "moisture"! Nitric acid be damned, if it is such a large problem exists in that area I can't help but wonder why we haven't heard more about ozone generators dissolving and crumbling to pieces, as nitric acid is one of the nastier ones... But thank you for posting the link.

[oicu812]

I here you... I'm thinking the small amount of nitric acid might take years to degrade the plates.

[myoldyourgold]

I have a large unit running in a damp basement and its plates burn out every other year compared to one running in the dry attic which has lasted 10 years. I know there production goes way down when the air is moist. If you try and turn the production up they start sparking. In the car I have ducted the intake air to my device off the exhaust manifold. The air get warmed and dried at the same time. By the time it gets to the device it's just about right at least not to hot. Making the ozone is one thing but using it to get some gain is another. Everything turns off at idle automatically. The HHO residual is more than enough at idle. All put together you see some good gains.

[oicu812]

I hope I'm not getting too far off topic but it seams corona discharge is getting kinda popular lately. Steam reforming is a fairly energy intensive process. Temperatures of 900 C are required Along with expensive nickle catalyst. Researchers are discovering that corona discharge ( cold plasma) is extreamly efficient at decomposing gas. by adding water vapor it actually makes the prosess more efficient by eliminating carbon buildup in the corona discharge reactor and increasing h2 production. It dosen't mention it in this article but From what I read diethyl ether produces amazing amounts of H2 with very little electrical energy. This artical mainly discusses methane. here's the link

http://www.energy-based.nrct.go.th/Article/Ts-3%20combined%20steam%20reforming%20and%20partial%2 0oxidation%20of%20methane%20to%20synthesis%20gas%2 0under%20electrical%20discharge.pdf