water temp

[rpatten]

does anyone know what water temperature is best for hho production?
Just a thought ie boiling water could produce more. If it does, you could set up a water to water heat exchanger linked 2 the cars radiator that indirectly heats the water in the hho cell, like a calorifier.

[hg2]

The problem with gas production with hot water is that eventually you end up generating more steam than HHO.I've found that "most" dry cell designs run around 100*F to 150*F and the cooler you can run the cell the better.The hotter a cell gets the more amps it draws causing more drag on an alternator(if you're using it on vehicles)also using valuable amperage for heat generation instead of gas production which in turn uses more fuel(gas or diesel) negating what you're trying to achieve in better gas mileage.

[waterbugs]

every body in here are trying to cool the water down. We all have a heating problem where did you come up with trying to heat up the water. Maybe you havn't been running your experiment long enough.

[rpatten]

It was a question waterbugs that's what a forum's for. Sometimes even seemingly stupid questions can have relevance. Bravo on your failed attempt at heckling, bet your a real joy to be around.

Anyway, my thought behind it is when you heat up water it expands as the molecules become excited, this may help the water break into its elements?
If you pressurise water it's boiling point becomes higher than what it is at atmospheric pressure, so if I were to design a sealed pressurised cell, steam shouldn't be an issue. you could vent the hho via an auto air release. The constant venting of hho should prevent the water expanding to a dangerous level and a hand water pump could be use to top the pressure up.
All fairly simple stuff you can pick up from hobby shops that deal with miniature steam engines.

Just another thought is water more or less conductive hot, cold, at atmospheric pressure or pressurised? I don't mind experimenting to find out but if people already have done this, I might as well ask.

[hg2]

It was a question waterbugs that's what a forum's for. Sometimes even seemingly stupid questions can have relevance. Bravo on your failed attempt at heckling, bet your a real joy to be around.

Anyway, my thought behind it is when you heat up water it expands as the molecules become excited, this may help the water break into its elements?
If you pressurise water it's boiling point becomes higher than what it is at atmospheric pressure, so if I were to design a sealed pressurised cell, steam shouldn't be an issue. you could vent the hho via an auto air release. The constant venting of hho should prevent the water expanding to a dangerous level and a hand water pump could be use to top the pressure up.
All fairly simple stuff you can pick up from hobby shops that deal with miniature steam engines.

Just another thought is water more or less conductive hot, cold, at atmospheric pressure or pressurized? I don't mind experimenting to find out but if people already have done this, I might as well ask.




I'm not 100 % sure it seems I read where much pressure will slow(and possibly prevent) the Hydroxy bubbles from forming.I'll try to do some research and see what I can come up with.

[waterbugs]

hot water excites the molecules not break up the bonds, and hot air expands the air which means your hho is not concentrated and you will need more be hho than cool hho to equal the amount. Take my advise and run you unit long enough it will start to boil especially if your unit is not efficient. You will back in this forum soon to figure out how to keep the unit cool. This whole forum is mostly about cooling down.

[james west]

@all

Hello to all, I am new to this forum but have been experimenting, building hho cells for 3 yrs now, so still a newbie compared to some.

@rpatten

I agree with you that the idea of using heat / pressure within a hho cell is well founded. It is a fact that the conductivity of water increases with both heat / pressure. If there is an area of vapour within your cell the maximum conductivity will be achieved at 230deg Celsius, after which point the water goes super critical. This increases the distance between the ions therefore reducing conductivity. However the only cells I have seen reported on forums are low-pressure electrolysis cells where there is little method to control water vapour/steam. Conductivity is being increased with the use of an electrolyte.
Popular understanding is that heat is bad and shows an inefficient cell. Heat is caused by the ions moving through the water and bumping into water molecules. The catch with low-pressure electrolysis cell designs is that the more hydrogen you wish the produce the more ions need to move, thus creating heat. If you want a cell that runs cool you need a number of conditions, large electrode area and low voltage, large volume of water to absorb latent heat, altogether a slower process. The hotter the water the faster the molecules are moving therefore easier for the ions to move too. Hydrogen will be produced faster.

The cost for creating heat is the voltage potential we supply to the cell, if heat can be supplied from other sources then a lower voltage can be used at the electrode for the same speed of reaction….a more efficient process.

The danger of using a pressurised cell is the high risk of injury from explosion especially if HHO is stored within plastic containers.

I have this week drawn up a cell design that will be pressurised; however I am reverse engineering the cell. My initial aim is to prove concept of design, then to produce 100cc HHO per second (measured at STP) and then finally run a 50cc engine. This will require the cell to convert only 0.0625ml of water to HHO per sec. Therefore the reaction area of the cell will be very small, the electrical energy into the cell will not be dissipated by extra volume of water around the cell. Plate spacing in low-pressure electrolysis cells are a compromise between plate voltage and clearing gas from the reaction zone. If I can run a very close spacing, clear the evolved gases and not arc across the plates, it might be a step forward. Over the next few days before building I will be considering my new design for any as yet unforeseen problems.
@rpatten
I would encourage anyone to experiment and try something new, (safely), but also to learn from others, their mistakes as well as successes.

Br
James

[rpatten]

Thank you sir!
Safety wise shouldn't be too much of an issue as I'm using the hho as it's being produced, so no storage.
I'm currently waiting for a few parts and am trying to learn how to build a titanium cell for a higher quality gas, so my progress is being hampered.
Please keep me informed of your progress, it'd be nice to bounce ideas off of people such as yourself as it's the only way of pushing this technology forward.
Even if it's a bad idea, it can lead to a good idea.