What a MESS!!!

[HHOhoper]

So I finally finished my first cell and had it hooked up to my Grand Prix. It was only producing a measley 200ml per minute, but whatever. The only place I could find (at first) to put it was near the intake which also happened to be about a foot away from my exhaust manifold (STUPID, I know). :rolleyes:
So I went driving around for a good hour and a half last night. Well after about 45 minutes, my engine started to sound as if it were....DROWNING!!! It chocked and sputtered a few times and I was getting concerned. I finally arrived at my destination and popped the hood with the engine still running. I looked inside of my generator and the water was boiling like crazy. When I shut it off and the water settled, half of my electrolyte was GONE! :eek: My poor engine.

I took it apart and my electrodes were completely brown (from the blasted baking soda). KOH sounds promising, but I want to know ALL the possible downsides that there are before I do it. Can anyone compare KOH and sodium hydroxide for me? What are the pros and cons to each.

It's back to the drawing board for me. One thing is for sure; I don't want to have to use something that has to be changed out every two days!

Also, what would be the best way to get the brown crud off my electrodes? CLR?

I was SO frustrated last night. I came this close ][ to just giving up on making one and just slapping down the cash to buy a pre-made one. :mad:

[Smith03Jetta]

The main difference between Sodium Hydroxide and Potassium Hydroxide is that Sodium Hydroxide is easier to find. You can find Roebic Drain Cleaner (100% Sodium Hydroxide) at Walmart or Home Depot or a similar store. You can't just walk into a store and buy Potassium Hydroxide. You have to find a soap making supply store or a chemical supply house or something like that. Hobby Lobby sells small quantities of Potassium Hydroxide for hobbyists but they were out when I went to buy some.

If I'm a long distance from home, I wouldn't want to rely on a hard-to-find chemical if something happened and I needed to replace my electrolyte.

With that said, Most people say that Potassium Hydroxide will produce a little more gas at lower temperatures. I don't know much about using Potassium Hydroxide. I've only tested with Sodium Bicarbonate and with Sodium Hydroxide.

[HHOhoper]

Great info. With everyone saying that KOH is the best, I really want to know why and everything that comes with it. Are you using Sodium Hydroxide currently?

[Smith03Jetta]

I'm using Sodium Hydroxide. I'm getting 920 ml/minute at 16 amps/13 volts. I think that's plenty for my little 2 liter engine.

Here's some specifics on both from a MSDS sheet

They both have the same PH, 13 to 14
NaOH is soluble in water at a lower temperature 20C compared to 25C for KOH.
They will both burn you if you get it on you or breath it in.
KOH is a better conductor of electricity in an electrolyte solution so you can use less KOH and get the same or better results.

"That's about all I have to say about that." - F.Gump

[Omega]

You aren't alone, HHOhoper. I boiled my first electrolyzer within 15 miles on my first run. I was using sodium hydroxide. I cringe to think what may have happened inside my motor! That was about 3 weeks ago and it seems to run ok.

I backed off the NaOH by 1/2 which cooled things down. That cell was four 9" pieces of 1/4-20 allthread. Dumb design, but it was easy.. :p I built a new cell with 11 plates, +nnnn-nnnn+ and it runs much cooler with the same level of NaOH as the first unit.Two days ago I changed from a vacuum line input for the HHO to an air intake input and it settled things down nicely.

I'm gradually working up the amount of NaOH. Boiling an electrolyzer will make one very cautious!!

I hope you get it worked out! :)

[HHOhoper]

You aren't alone, HHOhoper. I boiled my first electrolyzer within 15 miles on my first run. I was using sodium hydroxide. I cringe to think what may have happened inside my motor! That was about 3 weeks ago and it seems to run ok.

I backed off the NaOH by 1/2 which cooled things down. That cell was four 9" pieces of 1/4-20 allthread. Dumb design, but it was easy.. :p I built a new cell with 11 plates, +nnnn-nnnn+ and it runs much cooler with the same level of NaOH as the first unit.Two days ago I changed from a vacuum line input for the HHO to an air intake input and it settled things down nicely.

I'm gradually working up the amount of NaOH. Boiling an electrolyzer will make one very cautious!!

I hope you get it worked out! :)

Thanks for the encouragement. I NEED IT! :o I found a spot on my car that is in the fender that has plenty of room and no engine heat- it's just getting to it that's the pain. I'm starting to understand why there are so many people on this forum who spend so much time planning and studying before they actually make anything. There's a lot that can go wrong if you don't know what you're doing.

[Smith03Jetta]

Not knowing what I'm doing has never stopped me. What I know, I know and what I don't know I can learn on the fly.

Speaking of flying, even though I've never landed a plane before I'm sure I can do it in an emergency situation if I have a radio and somebody to talk me through it. Some over-cautious people would run the gas out of the plane and die in a horrible crash while they tried to read the owners manual. Of course it's recommended to have the proper landing gear tire pressure and propeller pitch but I would trust that somebody had looked into that before I took the flight yoke to land the plane.

Hypothetically of course ;)

[HHOhoper]

Not knowing what I'm doing has never stopped me. What I know, I know and what I don't know I can learn on the fly.

Speaking of flying, even though I've never landed a plane before I'm sure I can do it in an emergency situation if I have a radio and somebody to talk me through it. Some over-cautious people would run the gas out of the plane and die in a horrible crash while they tried to read the owners manual. Of course it's recommended to have the proper landing gear tire pressure and propeller pitch but I would trust that somebody had looked into that before I took the flight yoke to land the plane.

Hypothetically of course ;)

Good points. I just want to be on the otherside of the "I'm glad I didn't give up" fence. :rolleyes:

[Atechguy]

I'm using pure citric acid in my new cell with distilled water, to early to tell how good it is , i mixed it to strong and blew 30 amp fuse:eek:it should definitely keep my plates clean and give me a nice neo citren for medicinal purposes :D, it is producing lots of fizzy soda bubbly gas , waiting for amp gauge to arrive so i can monitor my amp draw and perfect pure citric acid solution.

[justaguy]

I have spent the last 4 or 5 weeks reading this and one more forum. I have learned a lot of things during this time that I wouldn't have known if I had built mine the first week.

I think one thing is to get everything as near right as you can like amps, heat and leaks. Next thing, let the generator run 6 or 8 hours while monitoring all the above. If everything holds good for 8 hours constant use then it should be ok in your vehicle. Even if I bought one already built i,d still put it through the test first.

BTW, don,t do the 8 hour test in a closed area, I will have mine on the outside, at least the hose.