Thoughts on this design

[porkchop]

I will try to explain how I have this hooked up.
First, I will explain what has happened and when I find more out I will post.
I had my generator (a new one I had built to replace the smack booster type) go from 20amps to 5 amps all of a sudden. I looked at amp meter (mounted inside), it was 20, glanced back, and it was 5 amps. I have a clear section of PVC, and also noticed decreased production when running. It was really doing well, a lot of bubbles in the generator and the bubbler was going faster than I had ever seen it. I thought I had stumbled upon something good. I still think I have.
Went to looking for problem when I got home, long story short, I think it is the alternator, I am going to pull it and have it checked.
When looking to see what went wrong, I kept finding 1.5 vdc. Another long story short---- I had the unit standing alone, and it had 1.5 vdc across it.
I didn't know if this was normal or not.

Configuration: P-N-P (2 POSITIVES JUMPED)-LEXAN PLATE- N1-N2-N3-N4 (N1 & N3 JUMPED / N2 & N4 JUMPED)- LEXAN PLATE- NEG-N-NEG (BOTH NEGATIVES JUMPED)
The Lexan plates (more on that in a minute) are larger than the SS ones, creating a barrier between the 3 "sections". I think this will make current flow through the plates better. I stress think. Anyhow, this was really going well, I didn't do a flow test, any ideas on an easy way to do this?
Anyway. when I took it apart after the amp drop, I noticed the lean plates had cracked. I am ordering some plastic ones that are rated to 350 degrees, I will keep you all up to date if enough interest is generated by this post.
I will say i was very impressed at the production before the plates cracked/or alt. quit. That bubbler was rolling, I had one that was about 10" tall and 2 1/2 in dia.
That's all for now. I am going to work on it tonight.

[daveczrn]

Configuration: P-N-P (2 POSITIVES JUMPED)-LEXAN PLATE- N1-N2-N3-N4 (N1 & N3 JUMPED / N2 & N4 JUMPED)- LEXAN PLATE- NEG-N-NEG (BOTH NEGATIVES JUMPED)
The Lexan plates (more on that in a minute) are larger than the SS ones, creating a barrier between the 3 "sections". I think this will make current flow through the plates better. I stress think. Anyhow, this was really going well, I didn't do a flow test, any ideas on an easy way to do this?
Anyway. when I took it apart after the amp drop, I noticed the lean plates had cracked. I am ordering some plastic ones that are rated to 350 degrees, I will keep you all up to date if enough interest is generated by this post.
I will say i was very impressed at the production before the plates cracked/or alt. quit. That bubbler was rolling, I had one that was about 10" tall and 2 1/2 in dia.
That's all for now. I am going to work on it tonight.


I'm having a hard time understanding how this configuration works well for you. did you measure output of HHO?

+n+ current will not be flowing through the n plate to make HHO in this setup. the + clossest to the N1-N4 would make alot of HHO. the N1-N4 plates would work like this.
N1 left side good production right side low production
N2 left side low production right side no production
N3 left side no production right side low production
N4 left side low production right side good production.

-n- just the left side of the first - will produce good results.

current always follows the path of least resistance. by putting N1N2N3N4 and connecting n1 and n3, current will pass through the connection and not through the cell like you want it to.

as well i'm not sure what your trying to get out of the separator plastic plates? if anything i see them insulating the inner N's.

[porkchop]

This is why I posted. Thanks for your response.
What I was trying to do was create 3 spaces.
I do know it is putting out a lot. I have not did a flow test. I can see all the plates through the clear space. They are all producing.
Let's see, I probalbly aren't splainin it right.

OK> 1st set: P-N-P (P's tied together) then LEXAN PLATE also N (from 1st set) tied to N2 on second set
(this is jumped over lexan plate) 2nd set: N1-N2-N3-N4, N1 & N3 jumped, N2 & N4 jumped. LEXAN PLATE ( N2 & N4 jumped over lexan plate to N1 on 3rd set) 3rd set: N1-NEG-N2. N1 & N2 tied together.

I'll be sure to get a good close up picture for you.
I know from reading, it is hard to see what the other is writing.
My stainless plates are of ultra high quality. I got them at a SS recycler, for free. The guy said it takes about a year for them to get enough of this to sell to whoever they sell to. If I recall right, he said they were over 75 % nickel. Kind of makes me wonder how good a bunch of nickels would do.
I do know the entire container was full of fine bubbles, and you couldn't see very far in, you could barely see the plate edges which are close to the side, and my bubbler was going a million miles per hour. I thought I'd need a bigger bubbler. I quick looked inside my Jeep and looked at the amp meter, I thought it was going to be pegged, but it showed 20 amps. Then I thought, hey I might have something here.
I do realize, my idea of a million mph, and a lot, could be different than yours.
But, to give you an idea, the bubbler has 3/8 tubing to it, it would like I was blowing through it about as hard as I can. water was splashing, and big bubbles coming out quickly.
However, now I have the thing apart, the Lexan has already cracked. I ordered something from Grainger, it was poly floro-i forgot the rest. It (the book) said it was good to 500 degrees, tensile strength of 3,500# and described as unbreakable. So ,I think I have that solved, but now it is only drawing 5 amps, and much less bubbles.
I hope my alt. isn't going bad.
Did I mention, this thing has 1.5 vdc when it is unhooked from everything and sitting by itself? I wonder if anyone else's is doing that. My guess would be yes.
I still can't find something I am pleased with for a bubbler.
I might go with this flash surpressor, I seen it work on you tube. Seemed like it was doing it's job well.

[liberybell]

I am also having a hard time understanding your configuration.
Definitely a picture would help.

One thing is certain, if you set up a nylon plate between two ss plates current will not travel through the electrolyte between those two plates will the nylon plate is in between.
Again, I think a picture would clarify a lot of things here.

I am though really interested to know how you are getting 1 million mph bubbles on your bubbler with this configuration :eek:
If you could take some LPM measurements that would help everybody here to really understand the volume of HHO you are producing. 1 million MPH as the speed of bubbles entering your bubbler does not seem to be the best way to measure it even though it sounds like your are producing a lot. ;)

[HHOhoper]

I am also having a hard time understanding your configuration.
Definitely a picture would help.

One thing is certain, if you set up a nylon plate between two ss plates current will not travel through the electrolyte between those two plates will the nylon plate is in between.
Again, I think a picture would clarify a lot of things here.

I am though really interested to know how you are getting 1 million mph bubbles on your bubbler with this configuration :eek:
If you could take some LPM measurements that would help everybody here to really understand the volume of HHO you are producing. 1 million MPH as the speed of bubbles entering your bubbler does not seem to be the best way to measure it even though it sounds like your are producing a lot. ;)

Ha, ha, ha, I can just picture some dude sitting in front of his bubbler with a radar gun! :D

[porkchop]

Well, I appreciate you guys asking. ha,ha, a million mph. Maybe I should have used a different phrase. It was just bubbling like boiling water would.
It looked to me as if it was on the aggressive to violent side.
I will get a picture. the Lexan cracked(it's not able to handle the heat), and I have some new polyfloro something or another coming for the plastic plates(rated to 500 degrees). I'll be sure to take some good pictures so you can analyze them.
Kind of funny it is hard to understand, when I was putting it together, I was like,..hhmmm, washer here, not there, jumper without washer, jumper with...
Good thing I could turn it sideways to be sure it was the way I wanted it.
While I might not be able to explain in scientific terms why it is working, I know what I'm seeing. But, then again, maybe what I thought was good, was bad, and now I'm just at good. I am trying to be fair about describing it, and not claiming to be the next Stan Meyers.
I think since this setup is working good for me, i am going to circulate it.
I am not going to use a pump, just have a larger container mounted close by
and let the thermal properties take over for flow. Like old time boilers worked.

Let's see, maybe this will help: it is like 3 celled battery.

Has anyone measured to see if their unit has voltage on it when it is unhooked? (unhooked and standing alone on a bench) Mine has 1.5 vdc. I can't figure that out. I am using a Fluke meter from work, and it is calibrated every year. So that's not the issue, besides, if it was, I would show 1.5 when the meter was hooked to nothing.

[Jaxom]

Has anyone measured to see if their unit has voltage on it when it is unhooked? (unhooked and standing alone on a bench) Mine has 1.5 vdc.

Mine has been sitting overnight and shows 0.00v. I did notice once that after shutting it down and unhooking the power supply that it still read 1.5v at the cell, but I figured it was just a residual voltage due to the capacitive properties of the cell. If you think about it, these things are built like big capacitors: two terminals with an electrolyte material in between.

[Smith03Jetta]

I had the same residual voltage reading when I was inspecting my case last time. I thought I had a screwed up voltage meter or something.

[porkchop]

1.5 volts was from the plates. They were supposed to be these super duper SS alloy. It must have had some funky metal in it. Every time I would turn it on, the plates would produce some sticky rust material. After an hour, the container was full of it. I have changed plates since then, and have picts.
I am using 3" CPVC, 316 SS, 1/4 teaspoon of Sodium Hydroxide, and drawing 20 amps. Output, I have not measured, I am getting a flow meter soon. (I hope)

I have been busy with baseball, I play on 2 teams and have been having 4 games a week. Hence the long time in posting.