University study on Diesel and Hydrogen Fumigation

[adam001]

Hey,

I have been following the hydrogen tech for some time now and have built several units here and there. But after some time out I want to push it up a peg!

I currently study automotive engineering at Loughborough University in the UK. I intend to write a dissertation on the effects of hydrogen fumigation to put some fact behind the tech :)

We all know (I assume) that the base figures of the tech do not add up...bla bla bla. We put the gains from HHO down to the fact that the increased flame front and heat help to ignite the existing fuel. I hope to prove this and quaniify it in controlled conditions, hopefully with the aid of a optical engine.

I would like some help on how I could angle my study, at the moment I plan to study the effect of the combustion rate and the subsequent efficiency of the energy conversion. But any thought's would be great.

At the same time I am building a 2 stack dry cell for my defender :)

Adam

[noobtard]

Apparently, nevermind..

but, diesel fuel in a bubbler does create an "interesting" effect.

[myoldyourgold]

Adam I see you found Ford Capri's thread. You can use that info so do not have to post it twice.


Apparently, nevermind..

but, diesel fuel in a bubbler does create an "interesting" effect.

noobtard, diesel in a SECOND bubbler is not a bad idea I use a second bubbler and am testing a special formula, but you must have the proper safety equipment or you could have serious problems. The normal flash back arrester will not stop the flash back because some oil remains and burns in the the flash back device making it a torch!!! You mush us a flash port. The bubbler container and fittings must be able to take the controlled explosion. The flash port releases the pressure, burnt HHO, fuel and shuts to prevent any new oxygen to come in. You still need a normal flash back arrester and one way valve between the first bubbler and the the second. Also the diesel will carry the KOH or what ever electrolyte with it. It might be diluted enough not to cause damage but if it is the only bubbler it might not. It is much better to have something acidic to neutralize the electrolyte with your diesel. I think you need a primary bubbler that really cleans and possibly a filter to clean the gas properly. The use of diesel in a second bubbler would be to slow down the flame speed of the HHO, neutralize any electrolyte that made it that far, and to try and reach the maximum adaptability of the ECU( as lean possible). This is not an easy trick. It takes a lot of testing!! There is on going testing in this regards. New information should be available in a month or so. I can tell you that to much just puts you back where you started form. If the flame front is to slow there is no gain. Flame speeds under compression is an interesting topic and requires a lot of study. The bottom line is that the ECU has it limits and you are only able to push it to its maximum lean adaptive ability, not over with out reprogramming the ECU or using and EFIE if there is an 02 sensor etc. Bubblers are a very important part and you need to do some research. There is a lot of information and experience out there, learn from it.

[Roland Jacques]

Can you give me some clarification please
" University study on Diesel and Hydrogen Fumigation"?

So is your question have to do with using HHO gases, on a Diesel Engine?
Or is it mixing HHO and Diesel fuel vapors, on a engine of some sort?

[Roland Jacques]

The normal flash back arrester will not stop the flash back because some oil remains and burns in the the flash back device making it a torch!!! You mush us a flash port. The bubbler container and fittings must be able to take the controlled explosion. The flash port releases the pressure, burnt HHO, fuel and shuts to prevent any new oxygen to come in..

Do you have more info on what you are calling a flash port?

[myoldyourgold]

Here is a link for one. It is at the bottom of the page.

http://www.alt-nrg.org/store.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3dborjNIBE

It is a valve that opens under pressure(explosion) and releases flame and pressure and then closes immediately denying any out side air.

[adam001]

Can you give me some clarification please
" University study on Diesel and Hydrogen Fumigation"?

So is your question have to do with using HHO gases, on a Diesel Engine?
Or is it mixing HHO and Diesel fuel vapors, on a engine of some sort?

Hey,

The testing will be on a normal diesel engine injected with bottled hydrogen and oxygen and combinations of both

Adam

[myoldyourgold]

Adam, if you are planning to store HHO in a bottle, I do not want to be in the same town. It just takes next to nothing to explode. Do not do it. You can store H by itself and O by itself but not together without risking your life and others. Not only that it proves nothing that is not already known and published. MIT, NASA, and many others have proven that it does burn more of the fuel. Where the problem comes is when you use engine power to make it. Does that result in a gain or not.

[Roland Jacques]

Hey,

The testing will be on a normal diesel engine injected with bottled hydrogen and oxygen and combinations of both

Adam

I know this may sound out there But. I don't believe HHO / Browns gas is the same as bottled H2 and bottled O2.

There is some debate as to varying ratios of Ortho and Para Hydrogen from Browns gases. (ortho being more reactive. And my mentor believes he creates Mono hydrogen that stays mono for a usable amount of time. He has a very unorthodox methods of making HHO. (i will share more on this as i learn from him)

[adam001]

Sorry I haven't updated this thread

Don't worry I am not storing oxygen and hydrogen in the same place! If i didn't know that I would be worthy of a Darwin award :p

My work so far has been on gasoline engines and I have begun my investigation on a full literature survey of the tech that is out there on combustion properties, I will not be doing anything associated with the production of the gas, purely it's combustion properties.

My work is based around a advanced thermodynamic combustion model which I can simulate varying concentrations of the gas and gasoline and determine the increase in brake specific fuel consumption, brake mean effective pressure and combustion durations to work out the net gain from the gas. From there it is reasonably easy to work out how much negative draw is taken from the engine to generate the gas and find the net benefit mathematically.

So far it looks like my efforts will be looking at finding the lean limit of gasoline when used homogeneously with port injected hydrogen (low to medium loads) and finding the efficiency benefits of using the hydrogen with near stoichiometric gasoline conditions (high load). Hopefully this will allow modifications to a engine ECU to change the parameters to alter the timing and fuelling to suit the combustion.

Whether I actually test it for real is unknown at this stage as the equipment would need to be modified and would cost over £100'000 to implement, however the simulation will be more than realistic as I will be putting in around 300 hours into the project and around 1000 hours of computational time to get it right :)

Adam